A reverse argument is that there is a growing swell of people who do not have faith in the de jur currency of the country - hence the rise in popularity of cryptocurrencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by rob streeper
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A reverse argument is that there is a growing swell of people who do not have faith in the de jur currency of the country - hence the rise in popularity of cryptocurrencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by rob streeper
Indeed, but the people are not sovereigns, they're subjects. Subjects that cross the sovereign are in for a rough go. Mind I don't claim to have foresight but the power dynamics of the world today are what they are. Cryptocurrencies may well pootle along for some time but if they ever get big enough to matter they'll be crushed by the powers that be. If they become conduits for criminal activity they'll be regulated, taxed, outlawed or all of the above. I think that the only way forward for the cryptocurrencies lies in the direction of remaining irrelevant on the world or national scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by cava
What is hysterical is the recent big crash of BitCon. Oh, excuse me, BitCoin.
I had been thinking that maybe I missed out on the gain. Yeah, I did, partially. But I also missed out on the crash.
Robs description has been one of the very best I've read in a very long time.
I will be asking to use it elsewhere, for it needs to be re-posted.
The essential argument is, that, if people think that a country is going to let its currency be subverted they are severely mistaken. People who know me know my background and how wild I get over these kinds of things, but Governments argument against bitcoin (cryptos) is basic for them to make: Only tax evaders, criminals, pedos and drug dealers use it.
Not true, of course, but repeat it enough and it becomes truth.
It's going to be an ugly fight.
Just had another thought about this issue. All of the cryptocurrencies are tied to the Internet. There are 13 root-name servers supporting the operations of the Internet in the world, 10 are operated by companies or organizations located within the borders of the USA. The other three are located in states more or less allied to the USA. None of the countries hosting the non-US groups have The Bomb, Military Might, Energy or Capital that the US does. If the US government ever feels that cryptocurriences are a liability they're gone.
Also, consider what China did a few months ago when it closed the domestic crypto exchanges. Despite the fact that none of the rns's are on its' territory the price of Bitcoin took a hit. I'm sure that some intrepid individuals continue to trade crypto's in China but waving your little self-styled-sovereign digital finger in the face of the PRC can change one's life status to 'organ donor' with terrifying speed.
Go for it if you like. If you make anything break me off a piece.:2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
...
I suspect they are preparing themselves for the down fall of the petrodollar...
I think if petro goes away the dollar part won't matter, Bitcoin or not.
If the Petrodollar falls, there is a very real chance that USA is going to suffer from hyperinflation due to billions/trillions $ going back to into the USA economy.
And who's going to pay the lectric bill to keep the Internets on?
If in doubt that Bitcoin is completely subverted, watch this.
https://youtu.be/UYHFrf5ci_g
Sorry, my post was in reply to someone who asked why Russia and China are buying up gold and silver like it's going out of fashion. I know a guy who posted on Facebook, "If you don't buy Bitcoin you don't like money" I say if you buy bitcoin you don't like the money you have...Quote:
Originally Posted by rob streeper
Lo and Behold, there is nothing new under the Sun when it comes to methods of storing and exchanging wealth in eventually useless forms ...
How Chinese mulberry bark paved the way for paper money - BBC News
For me? - as a previous, full-time gold miner and gold mine owner - give me gold, silver, and copper any day, as a method of unassailable and difficult-to manipulate, wealth storage.
The sovereign says 'no' and it means NO. https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ckdown-trading
I'd take clean water, safe food and a sound roof to sleep under.Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrack
A share is just that..it's a share in a company. If the company is poorly run or a complete sham then there will be appropriate risk associated with your shares holding their value. Shares that pay dividends on which company tax has been paid are a valuable asset within a super fund..especially a self managed fund. The tax credits help offset the fund's tax bill and once the fund goes into pension phase they're of even more use as you then you receive dividends _plus_ any tax credits. If you buy shares in a company without first looking at the company you're buying into then yes it can be a gamble. However buying shares in a company after careful examination of the company and appropriate risk assessment is investing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Parks
'Quote:
Originally Posted by rrich
I thought it was invented so you dont have to drag a cow down to the supermarket every week to pay for your groceries. It's also difficult to fit a cow into your wallet :)
Everyone knows that XRP is where it's @...
:cool:
Way back when I was on the desk, this was called pump-and-dump ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie
This is explained beautifully.
An opinion on Bitcoin that resonates alarm bells. Get out before all the Monkeys have gone.
*BITCOIN*
A lot of monkeys lived near a village.https://mail.google.com/mail/e/1f412
One day a merchant came to the village to buy these monkeys!
He announced that he will buy the monkeys @ $100 each.
The villagers thought that this man is mad.
They thought how can somebody buy stray monkeys at $100 each?
Still, some people caught some monkeys and gave it to this merchant and he gave $100 for each monkey.
This news spread like wildfire and people caught monkeys and sold it to the merchant.
After a few days, the merchant announced that he will buy monkeys @ 200 each.
The lazy villagers also ran around to catch the remaining monkeys!
They sold the remaining monkeys @ 200 each.
Then the merchant announced that he will buy monkeys @ 500 each!
The villagers start to lose sleep! ... They caught six or seven monkeys, which was all that was left and got 500 each.
The villagers were waiting anxiously for the next announcement.
Then the merchant announced that he is going home for a week. And when he returns, he will buy monkeys @ 1000 each!
He asked his employee to take care of the monkeys he bought. He was alone taking care of all the monkeys in a cage.��
The merchant went home.
The villagers were very sad as there were no more monkeys left for them to sell it at $1000 each.☹️
Then the employee told them that he will sell some monkeys @ 700 each secretly.
This news spread like fire. Since the merchant buys monkey @ 1000 each, there is a 300 profit for each monkey.
The next day, villagers made a queue near the monkey cage.
The employee sold all the monkeys at 700 each. The rich bought monkeys in big lots. The poor borrowed money from money lenders and also bought monkeys!
The villagers took care of their monkeys & waited for the merchant to return.
But nobody came! ... Then they ran to the employee...��
But he has already left too !
The villagers then realised that they have bought the useless stray monkeys @ 700 each and unable to sell them!
The Bitcoin will be the next monkey business
It will make a lot of people bankrupt and a few people filthy rich in this monkey business.
That' how it will work��
Iran, Russia and China are doing their utmost de-dollarise the US petro-dollar and it seems likely bit-coin is part of that. And we all know what actions the US will take to defend their US world currency...things are about to get dicey as.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC7QEqxZCIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkhUn7nh33Q James Corbett explains the bitcoin/blockchain/cryptocurrency agenda.
With the recent valuation decline news I was thinking about this thread. Just as I was saying above, when the sovereign states decide Bitcoin is a threat it is going to crash and burn.
I suffer from child abuse specific brain damage with means I have huge gaps in understanding/memory etc, so I really struggled to understand the above link. On one hand he was saying the bitcoin platform will take the power from the banks(A good thing?) on the other it is a psyop which is a bad thing. Can someone please explain the gist of what he was saying, the obvious contradiction thing just did my head in.
Bitcoin = expectant (soon to die)
“Policymakers and regulators are getting worried. Pretty much every G20 policymaker is talking about a crackdown,” Roubini told Bloomberg Television. “We can’t allow it to become the next Swiss bank account for use by criminals and people evading tax.”
From all reports they missed the boat on that one, it has already sailed loaded with money from the criminal element. Typical politician, five years behind the accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by rob streeper
Not yet... you avoided being pushed under a train! - https://xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XBT&to=USD&view=1MQuote:
Originally Posted by rrich
There is one thing that is common to all these financial rorts - a general lack of transparency. There's no central records, no ability to see who is trading what and where, no over-arching authority controlling or regulating the system, to ensure it is not being scammed.
With our dollar monetary system, there are some fairly substantial checks and balances in place, to preserve the value of our regular currency. Not so with BitCon .. err, BitCoin, or any of the other "crypto-currencies".
It's interesting to see Dr Doom (Nouriel Roubini) claiming that there is no place for either Blockchain, or cryptocurrencies, anywhere.
He claims that BlockChain is only useful for cryptocurrencies and nothing else - and that cryptocurrencies are "purely a scam".
Meantime, local banks are saying that BlockChain is a wonderful IT invention, because it is basically an incorruptible ledger, and could be used for delivery of a thousand different services, where incorruptible forms of record-keeping are required.
Of course, Roubini is a world-renowned economist, and we all know how good economists are with their predictions and forecasts.
It has also been said, that "300 of the worlds greatest economists state that Gold is nothing but a barbarous relic of a bygone era, and has no place in creating or storing wealth".
As one wag commented, those 300 economists merely have to convince 6 billion people in the world, that they are right.
Bitcoin whipsaws investors as 'mother of all bubbles' shows signs of bursting
https://cointelegraph.com/news/why-b...the-blockchain
I am not an economist, or have any formal financial training. So take what I write with a grain of salt.
Here is my prediction - within 6-12 months Bitcoin will eclipse it's all time highs of A$24,000 and be around for at least another few years. The ride will be a rollercoaster, with massive gains and equally massive losses - it will not be like the stockmarket which slowly goes up or down in value.
Will it survive indefinitely? Doubtful, but I suspect another Cryptocurrency will replace it and be embraced by a much greater number of people.
Just my 2 cents worth.
It can be very embarrassing to make predictions - particularly when your highly erroneous predictions stay in readily-readable form for decades afterwards - and other people have a good laugh, at just how wrong your predictions were.
I have a 1975 copy of a book called the American Almanac. I bought it many years ago in a secondhand bookshop for a couple of bucks.
It's full of amazing true stories, biographies, unbelievable events, records of disasters, plus a mountain of trivia. It also contains multiple pages of predictions - from seers, psychics, scientists, economists, and experts in their field.
One thing stands out in all those predictions. 99.9% of them were completely and utterly wrong - in fact, laughably wrong. The .01% who were nearly right, are a surprise.
One person did predict immediate person-to-person communication world-wide. Not a single one of the predictions predicted the Internet. Not a single one predicted the 1987 stockmarket crash or the 2008 GFC.
Not a single person predicted the rise of militant Islam and world terrorism and vastly-increased anti-terrorism security measures. No-one predicted AI or iris-reading technology. No-one predicted the rise of robot manufacturing.
No-one predicted 9-11, nor the various Wars that happened between 1975 and now. There was a lot of predictions of Major Wars between Russia and the U.S., or the U.S. and China - that never happened.
There's three things that affect speculative trading values and predictions. One thing is the cutely-named (by an economist, no less), "irrational exuberance".
That, simply, is people piling on the bandwagon when they see others making a motza, without any real effort. Money for jam, essentially.
The second thing is unforeseen and totally unpredicted events appearing suddenly out of left field - that have a major impact on the speculative trading.
There are many of these "left-field" events in the history of speculative trading, that have caught hundreds of millions of "smart investors", by total surprise.
The third thing is "profit taking". That is, when "investors" see an investment falling in value, they sell out, grab their remnant money, and bolt for the door.
Many of these people are quite likely selling at a moderate loss. They see that as a better option than a total loss.
Two of these events (irrational exuberance and profit taking) are currently in train with Bitcoin, and the second one is in action, right now - and it can only accelerate.
As a husband and father, I am used to being embarrassed and wrong. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrack
Regarding the prediction, well, we shall just have to wait and see. If I am wrong, then I am wrong and will wear it. But if I am right, well, collectively we are all in a big mess ......
{edit} Decided I didn't really want to go back there. I just like making things out of wood now.
Quote:
Regarding the prediction, well, we shall just have to wait and see. If I am wrong, then I am wrong and will wear it. But if I am right, well, collectively we are all in a big mess ......
The worrying part is when BitCoin crashes (and it will, because it's totally unregulated), it takes real money with it.
Just like gambling, there will be the odd winner out of the crash - but a lot of losers, who will have to sell their house and go back to renting, to pay back the loans they got, to "invest" in big swags of BitCoin.
The point of my post was not to highlight the words of Roubini (economists are wrong in their predictions far more often than not) but rather to point to the opinions of the G20 heads. If they think Bitcoin is a problem then it is. They will take substantive steps to kill it and the other cryptocurrencies because it threatens their, and their patrons (sovereign states), hold on power.
Economics is, IMO, a weak kind of history that is made weaker by attempts to apply mathematics, derived from or based on past economic events, in making predictions. Mathiness is a term that has been used recently to describe the inappropriate use of mathematics as a mechanism of bamboozling the ignorant and I think it apt to describe predictions in economics.
Don't these boil down to the "bigger fool" theory of investing?Quote:
There's three things that affect speculative trading values and predictions. One thing is the cutely-named (by an economist, no less), "irrational exuberance".
That, simply, is people piling on the bandwagon when they see others making a motza, without any real effort. Money for jam, essentially.
The second thing is unforeseen and totally unpredicted events appearing suddenly out of left field - that have a major impact on the speculative trading.
There are many of these "left-field" events in the history of speculative trading, that have caught hundreds of millions of "smart investors", by total surprise.
The third thing is "profit taking". That is, when "investors" see an investment falling in value, they sell out, grab their remnant money, and bolt for the door.
Many of these people are quite likely selling at a moderate loss. They see that as a better option than a total loss.
Two of these events (irrational exuberance and profit taking) are currently in train with Bitcoin, and the second one is in action, right now - and it can only accelerate.
lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by woodpixel
Oh, Dear! Now the Banks have suddenly woken up to the following facts, with regard to crypto-currencies ...
1. People are using their credit cards to buy crypto-currencies. Someone with a few working brain cells inside a Bank, has obviously pointed out, that if the crypto-currency purchased with a CC goes into free-fall, the CC owner has a high likelihood of becoming insolvent.
As CC's are a high-risk, unsecured line of credit, Banks could very likely get their collective bums burnt - Big Time. So the Banks have started to crack down on using CC's to buy crypto-currencies.
The message is simple - "Use your money to gamble with crypto-currencies, not ours!!"
The big four banks aren't planning a bitcoin crackdown ... yet - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
2. The potential for fraud and criminality when dealing in crypto-currencies is huge. We've just seen the huge cryptocurrency hack and theft in Japan. Every crypto-currency supporter keeps on about the security of Blockchain - but this is computers and servers and hard drives, we're talking about here, isn't it? - and no-one has ever hacked into them, destroyed them, diverted transactions, or held computer owners to ransom, have they?? :sad1:
Funny how those Banks keep bringing up that awkward word again, too, about crypto-currencies - unregulated .... :sad1:
Who, ever, buys an investment on their credit card.
Since when have the banks ever worried for a single second about their clients making a loss on a purchase?
Are they protecting their customers interests, or their own?
It feels to me that "the banks" have had a word from the RBA and told to shut it down. This will be a cosmic level battle that will leave scorched earth and rubble in its wake.
Fiat currencies are in for the very last gasping fight for their existence. Governments will do anything to support them - for without freely created fiat debt (currency) the whole ponzi scheme collapses.