Invasion or what?

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Originally Posted by bsrlee

Small historical point - James Cook did NOT settle/invade Australia, that occurred some time later with Arthur Phillip and the First Fleet. James Cook was just the first European to survive and publish a description of the Eastern Parts of Australia. A short camping trip/ beach party does not constitute a real invasion.

The First Fleet only succeeded because they arrived a generation or so after a major smallpox epidemic had (more than) decimated Aboriginal populations across Australia, unintentionally spread by Malay traders - we call them Indonesians these days. Happened every century or so, trackable through South East Asia from the mainland down the island chains. This is also not politically popular. Now Influenza is another thing, along with Scarlet Fever and a host of other 'minor' diseases that killed plenty of Europeans as well, and there is no need to borrow North American revisionism ascribing every disaster to European malice.

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bsrlee, The Captian Cook link was a beat up by The Tele. I fell for it too. Are you saying that the eventual colonists walked into an empty continent? Here's an article that challenges the Malay traders theory.

TT

So much hand wringing going on in the press these days. Waleed seems to hate the country that has given him so much.

Not me, all that we should be worrying about is how to get on with each other NOW! Not one of us can change the past. (Hmm, maybe I should send him the little poem my dad used to share while we worked away in his workshop back in the 60's, it was by a Persian/Muslim scholar a thousand years ago too (Omar Khayyam)

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

May my beloved Australia learn to 'move on' from all this hand wringing.

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Originally Posted by Bendigo Bob

So much hand wringing going on in the press these days. Waleed seems to hate the country that has given him so much.

Not me, all that we should be worrying about is how to get on with each other NOW! Not one of us can change the past. (Hmm, maybe I should send him the little poem my dad used to share while we worked away in his workshop back in the 60's, it was by a Persian/Muslim scholar a thousand years ago too (Omar Khayyam)

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

May my beloved Australia learn to 'move on' from all this hand wringing.

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BOB.
A great response and apt.

The Roman empire is much lauded these days by Historians. Always on the History channel and SBS. A much loved period of history

Now let's discuss conquest and slavery and see where that takes us.....

Greg

To my mind we are getting things a little confused. There are a number of issues that have raised their head as a result of the OP. Also it is quite clear that most of us, and I include myself in this, are very poor historians. We either remember incorrectly or have been taught incorrectly: Probably both.

We quite rightly allude to other historical disgraces that occurred throughout history to either support of deny out standpoint. Sometimes they are valid and sometimes not.

I believe we are offended, as a nation, at the suggestion we used any force back in the latter part of the eighteenth century to annex Australia to what was then the British Empire.

However, it seems undeniable that force occurred. If you doubt that, ask the Tasmanian aborigines: Oh, sorry, that won't be possible. I think you know why. Instances of supreme force were not limited to that island, but of course occurred on the mainland too.

Yes, the similar outrageous atrocities were happening all over the world. But we are not children and should be big enough to acknowledge exactly what happened.

I recall a friend at school announcing that he couldn't come to terms with history any more because he discovered Henry VIII had died not of "excesses," but syphilis. Actually the real reason in his case was that he wasn't very interested in history. We are not children. We can be told and can acknowledge the truth however painful it might be.

We were quick to pick up that Captain Cook probably did not "invade" Australia. He visited and caused little harm. We were just as quick to ignore that his countrymen who arrived later, were not nearly as polite. They came and then they took over and used extreme force as required.

Why do we have so much trouble acknowledging what happened? It is there for all to read in black and white. Sure, today we need to move on, but that is not facilitated by historical denial any more than if the USA denied that the slave trade never occurred or their civil war was merely an intellectual disagreement.

If a person or group of people rock up to your doorstep, they are a visitor, if they stay in your home they are a visitor, if it is with your permission, but the moment they intimidate you or even force you out, they have invaded (in fact the term "home invasion" is now commonplace).

I believe we need to get over our self righteous indignation and embarrassment.

No, I was not born in Australia (Australian now), but I am descended from the pommie bastards that committed such atrocities all over the world including Australia.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Greg Ward

......The rightness or wrongness of the past and the wording of historical events are of little consequence, they may be interesting discussion points, that's all. What is important is the future, the past cannot be changed........

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The past cannot be changed, just a small sentence but a very powerful one. Even if I had a way of going back in time, I would not change the past. This may seem very harsh and cold and I make no excuse for this. I accept that I cannot control what has happened in the past.

I may not like it but I accept it.

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Originally Posted by chemfish

....... Teach the facts, move on and make things better, improve health care, improve education, stop the us and them culture. ......

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Know what has happened in the past. TRY not to allow this happen in the future and come together as a community. This last sentence might seem a little out of place considering that I live in Australia. There is no open conflict between groups of citizens in this country.

There are a fair amount of improvements that are needed in this country. We all have a small part to play in this world try not to let it go to waste.

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

The dutch settlements in South Africa were to provide fresh food and victuals to the ships on the way to the Dutch East Indies and India and the Chinese trade and the settlers lived peacefully with the local natives.

But when the diamonds were discovered all the territories were conquered by the English. Remember the Boer wars where the English, and regrettably Australians as well as part of the British empire, annexed the country by defeating the settlers through the first use of concentration camps.

Don't blame the Dutch for what happened after that.

Peter.

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Well, that's one version.

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Originally Posted by Jonzjob

I don't know if any of you guys down there have seen this?

University tells students Britain 'invaded' Australia - BBC News

What do you think anyway? Is it PC gone silly or what?

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Not politically correct...just correct.

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

I agree Arron.

The fact that they were black meant the land was declared Terra Nullius, which is a whitewash. Black people were not regarded as human then.

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Terra Nulis does not mean no humans lived here. It means there was no recognisable state or government exercising legal authority. In South Australia the Colonial Office directed the settlers to negotiate for the land which they ignored.

Not arguing the invasion interpretation just the common misinterpretation of Terra Nullis.

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