Printable View
Well, I guess I misunderstood you. That look you have on Western Red Cedar is as close to a satin sheen that I've seen. There's no gloss visible at all. When you talk about gloss, I assume you mean being able to see reflection in the finish. I don't see it there. I also wouldn't be trying to get a high gloss on Red Cedar. It's too porous and open grained. But if that's that you're after, then good on you for persisting.:2tsup:
Regards,
Rob
It's nice but its not what I'm after and I'm really starting to believe that's it's not possible to achieve it by hand other than a lathe but I'm not giving up on it yet.
Here is the latest update I know it's quick as I'm writing I'm also working. The sanding sealer has done it's job I reckon I should of sanded it down properly rather than using the steel wool. The look it has I believe is Livos's maximum look you could achieve with it. This is only a first coat and I believe the sanding sealer has given the effect as if 5 or 6 coats of livos has been applied. I think this livos's maximum potential if applied raw.
I'll take a picture of it and post it in a few minutes.
Not a bad shortcut though I managed to get multiple coats in just one coat which would normally take a week to achieve. But sanidng the sealer down and leveling it prroperly would most probably give a very nice look.
You can see the dramatic difference between the two I don't think the sanding sealer would work well on pine only because it is closed grain and the sealer being so thick unless you applied a very thin coat and I mean a smidgen of it or better yet diluting it down maybe 50/50 or even 60/40. But none the less it's proven to be a good tip with my addition of livos to it and definitely a time saver. The only downside to this is it's no longer food safe unless you have a fetish for sanding sealers. I now believe that it is possible to to get a glossy look using this method with Danish oil and the organ oil buffing oil I think I just may have come up with something after all. I can't wait to try and buff it and see exactly how much off a sheen I have created.
Sorry Section_1, but that is still just a semi gloss. You haven't shown us what the original finish you had looked like. If this is an improvement in gloss...
Whose Danish Oil are you using? have you tried hard burnishing the Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil, which is Tung Oil and Citrus Terbene? This is food safe and will give you an excellent result. Since you are talking about Organoil Buffing Oil, I assume that you haven't tried Hard Burnishing, just adding coats of oil. I've said this before,you can use Tung Oil diluted down 1:1 with White Spirit or as someone else correctly pointed out, Citrus Terbene. This is also food safe and radiant heat and liquid resistant. The total time for preparation and oiling takes about 2 hours and then you are finished AND you get a gloss finish. In fact if you use different mixes of sandpaper, you can vary the exact gloss of the finish.
Try it it might just work!
Regards,
Rob
At the end of the day, if you like it and it 's what you wanted to achieve, that's all that matters. Glad you got there in the end.
Regards,
Rob
I suppose your right ok I will try and find pure tung oil not sure who sells it but I'm sure I must of mentioned in my earlier posts about the buffing oil. Unfortunately for me the buffing on pine turned out to be a super high gloss which looked plastic it just wouldn't suit my projects.
Yes that look is semi gloss but to achieve that look would take subsequent coats over several days but I achieved in just one day nad only one hour it's dry I think that is an accomplishment in itself. I should of taken a photo of it with just the sealer but I didn't think, the oil only slightly modified it appearance.
I searched for your earlier post and saved it on my computer I will try it and see what I come up with, but where do I find these products besides shellac
You can buy pure Tung Oil from Organoil, but it's expensive. I buy Sceney's Pure Tung Oil for $20.00/litre at my local Mitre 10 Hardware. Both perform well. They also sell a Citrus Solvent, which is most likely Terbene. (A litre of Tung Oil will last you quite a while I would think.)
One other thing you might want to take into consideration while you are comparing finishes, is what the grain resolution looks like. Tung Oil gives beautiful resolution of colour and grain. Much better IMHO than Danish Oil of any ilk.
Good luck.
Regards,
Rob
ok Rob I appreciate your support I will go first thing Tuesday as Monday is a public holiday but one thing they say Pure tung oil never dries is the shellac that will seal it in. What if Mixed soe dewaxed shellac to act like a like varnish
Or should I mix Boiled linseed oil so it dries quicker
If you follow the burnishing method to apply the Tung Oil and Terbene or White Spirit mix, the Tung Oil will be near dry at the end of the procedure. If you like, give it 12 hours or less if you want (maybe 8 hours) and then apply the Shellac. Don't mix them as the oil is immiscible with the Shellac. Four coats of Shellac sanded between each coat with 400 or higher, will give you the result. But before you use the Shellac, have a look at the finish you get with the burnished Tung Oil. I think you might find you don't need the Shellac. (Though on Western Red Cedar, I think you might.)
Regards,
Rob
Alright will do just I don't want a complete burnished surface but I'm sure this will work out.
When you wet sand up through the grits, stop and look at the result you have for 800g, 1200g and 1500g. You can decide where you want to stop the burnishing. I would suggest at least 1500, but the result you want may be at 1200 or even 800g. It's just a question of watching the result as you go along.
Regards,
Rob
The thing is I still would like some level of protection I was thinking about buying some varnish and mixing in with it. In Livos they have boiled linsed oil mixed with beeswax. What would you recommend as protection.
Burnishing the oil will give you excellent protection against radiant heat and liquids, both cold and hot. You can wipe down the finished item with Spray and Wipe! Have a look at this thread, particularly the posts where I have compared the properties of several oils in protective finishing. It's not necessary to add anything except the Terbene or White Spirit.
Regards,
Rob
Thanks Rob I have read most of the posts that you linked and I have tried Organoil Burnishing Oil on a sample before, now I only sanded it up to 2000grit cause that's all I can get my hands on and I did it on hoop pine and being closed grain I really didn't even need to go that high. Sure enough the surface was very glossy but also very plastic looking as well, the part that bothered and damned if I can remember whether I put a coat of EEE or just the minwax paster wax but after applying and buffing it out I ran my finger nail very light along the wood and it scrached it. I couldn't even buff it out.
There are a couple of points here.
1. EEE cream is not a finish, it is a cutting agent. It will act like very fine sandpaper and thus enhance the fineness and shine of wood. So you have actually done the equivalent of sanding to 4000 or higher.
2. The wax would need time to harden and so by running your nail over the fresh surface, even lightly, you have taken the wax layer off the surface. Only rewaxing would even the surface out again. Buffing wouldn't help.
3. There is no need to put anything on top of, mix in with or apply before the burnished oil. You should have seen the tests I did on the oil regarding heat and liquid in that thread I linked to in the last message. The oil is unaffected by these issues.
4. It doesn't matter what finish you put on a surface, if you scratch it, it will mark. At least with a penetrating oil, like Tung Oil or Hard Burnishing Oil, the scratches can be treated by wiping the surface with more oil.
Keep the operation simple and you will succeed!
Regards,
Rob
Thanks Rob for all your help mate I'm really looking forward in getting that tung oil also I have heaps or burnishing oil and will try it again but this time not going so high in grits not with pine anyway
The only place that sells it here is Bristols in 5 litre cans, I spoke to Greg at Sceney's and he said it takes 2 days to dry but it is touch dry with an hour or so. He also said that the Citrus solvent is not Terebine so it's not a drying agent but being in Qld and it is getting hot here I wouldn't need it. Lastly he mentioned to apply very thin coats as if your doing french polishing, thick coats will make the tung oil become tacky he also mentioned the more coats I put on the glossier the surfface will become.
Since you've used this successfully how much do you put on. Oh almost forgot he said to use on softwood 75% oil and 25% citrus and hardwoods 50/50. I'm going now to buy it this will set me back $110 but if I get the results I'm after it's worth it.
You can buy the Tung Oil for $35/l approx at Carbatec. The Terebine as well. And don't forget that you can use White Spirit intead of the terebine.
If you do not intend Burnishing the oil, then do as the guy from Sceney's said. Most people do not understand the benefits that can be achieved by burnishing. It is this process that imparts many of the properties of the finish
Without burnishing, the oil will take two days to dry, but after burnishing, only a few hours is necessary to get sufficient curing to give you a hard, beautiful finish.
Regards,
Rob
Ok I placed an order for the oil and citrus as 5 litres I felt was a bit much. I will use citrus instead of white spirit because he said that white spirit smells and tends to linger around a while is this ok. He said due to the warmer weather in Qld I won't need terbetine but you said that white spirit acts as a terbertine as well as a thinner. I'm more inclined to follow your advice since you're method has given you good results. So will this citris solvent act as a drying agent as well as a thinner.
He told me to only put one very light coat and wipe off any excess after 30 mins but having experience with danish oil I know that one light coat will not leave any excess oil to wipe off so please explain in detail exactly how you apply this and I will follow your instructions to the letter and of course I'm going to burnish it so please one more time as if your doing it now.
I received tru oil today and I couldn't wait to give it a go, the results are fantastic. The application is simple and instant the look you get can be as glossy as you want everything is applied by rag or paper towel not sure which of the two is better but I will find out. After 24 hrs of drying of the first coat you can apply every two hrs there after.
Now having said all that I also do like the sheen you can create with Livos and I'm very much looking forward in experimenting with the pure tung oil using Rob's burnishing technique. After spending hundreds of dollars on various products I'm finally settling on something that works for me. What's amazing though in the end watco danish oil, organoil danish, rustins danish, liberon etc all are good and the differences between them are suttle with the exception of Livos. Livos really creates a unique look that I haven't seen in other oils and it must have something to do with the wax content.
I now know that oils like the Minwax Finishing oil has a higher content of poly in it and since I'm on the subject of poly the minwax wipe on poly cannot compare to their other product the fast drying poly semi gloss. When diluted with metho the finish is far superior to it's wipe on brother.
Anyway I wanted to mention all of that because I'm over the mooon with joy that I'm almost complete with all these experiments and I'm finally settling down to a few products I can stick with.
Rob I'm looking forward in getting your response to what I asked you earlier. This will be my final lesson.
:no: The smiley is not in agreeance lets hope he's wrong.
If you can bear with me until tomorrow PM, I'll post the method with photos at the different stages, so you know what to expect.
Regards,
Rob
Sure I can they said it will take a week from today before it arrives from Melbourne. I truly appreciate mate.
OK...
I have used two samples for this demonstration.
a. a Fiddle back Red Gum strip and
b. a Birds-eye Huon Pine block. Fig.1 and 2
1. Sand the raw timber starting at 100g and going through 120,150,180,240 grits then finishing at 400 grit. See Fig.3 and 4 (Note that Pic 1 and Pic 4 are out of order. They should be reversed)
2. Give the work piece a rub down with a tack cloth or a cloth and Mineral turps. (Just wet the rag, don't drown the timber.)
3. Once the piece is dry, mop your 50/50 mix of Oil and White Spirit onto the surface of the wood. You will be looking for a glistening coat, which does not disappear immediately into the wood. See Fig.5 and 6
4. Allow the oil/spirit mix to sit on the timber for 20 -30 minutes.30 minutes is probably best. See Fig.7
5. After the incubation period is over, begin wet sanding. Start with the 400 grit pad you have just dry sanded with. You will get adequate (ideal) sanding by running up and back along the section of surface you are working on 5 times each way. A total of 10 passes.
6. You will notice a slurry form as you sand. This is oil and saw dust. the friction caused by sanding wet generates enough heat to polymerise the Tung Oil. Your incubation time was what allowed the oil to penetrate the wood. (Fig.8 and 9) shows what the slurry should look like. Note that it is not a great gluggy mess but a thinner, easily moved slurry.)
7. Continue up through the grits 800, 1200, 1500 and 2000. If you can get 4000, I would use this too. You will notice that the slurry gradually disappears until at 2000g it is essentially gone.
8. Now vigorously wipe the surface down with a dry cotton cloth.
9. You are finished.
Figs.10, 11 and 12. show the finished boards, looking down on them and along the surface. Note how subtle variations in the grain are now clearly visible.
Adding Wax to the surface (if you wish). Note that the burnishing renders the wood resistant to radiant heat and hot and cold liquids, waxing may affect these properties.
I used UBeaut EEE cream first then UBeaut Traditional Wax after. This was done within 10 minutes of finishing the burnishing.
Fig.13 and 14 show the boards with Wax at the right hand side of the pencil line.
So you get a brilliant finish, with high grain resolution, which is dry pretty much immediately after you finish. Any questions, please PM me.
Regards,
Rob
That looks excellent Rob and thank you for going out of your way to teach me, I noticed you only used one coat. Great work again mate I've copied your instructions down so I'll always have it on hand. JUst one thing you used mineral turps to cean the timber I've always used metho is there a reason why you chose turps over metho
Sorry, I should have said that I add another lot of oil just before sanding, But only enough to make the surface shiny again.
The Turps is just a personal thing. Metho will, of course, dry much faster.
Regards,
Rob
Glad that the True Oil is working for you.
Remember that you can apply true wax afterwards also. :)
I like True Oil coz its easy and gives a durable surface. The old Anschutz 22Hornet stock I re-finished, I used it out in the feld a fair bit and it got rained on occasionally etc.
The true oil worked for me and 30 years later the Anschutz still looks good - but admittedly these days she's become a bit of a safe queen. My eldest bloke is keen to break it out and get started with her tho...maybe it will serve him as well as it did me.
Ok well thanks again Rob I'm really looking forward in getting started with this.
Timeless timber I never knew tru oil was so old it really is a remarkable product and you don't need alot of it to do the job, I've seen some youtube stuff on it and some really flood the surface with it but I think it's just a waste.