Printable View
On the ABC this morning ... I thought it was interesting.
" To write in a scholarly fashion; produce scholarship."
after ... "write or study, especially by night."
because ... Origin: early 17th century: from Latin lucubrat- '(having) worked by lamplight', from the verb lucubrare
A.Word.A.Day --lucubrate
So starting with the scholar working at night by oil lamp ... to producing scholarship or thought ... maybe debate ... in general.
I must try to remember that one Mr. McGee!! :2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
A word i like is corybantic and a second is calumny.
I like COCCYX for hangman (or hang the butcher).
the other one is cry/dry/fry/try, you can change you answer depending on what they have already chosen.
That's funny. Before I looked it up I was going to say ... wasn't Cory Bantic the dropkick who was arranging wild parties a year or so ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by artme
... don't look at me when you say that!Quote:
and a second is calumny.
Paul
Pique vs Peak vs Peek
Aaarggghh!
meaning in context - Is it "peek", "peak" or "pique"? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange
Even though thou hast piqued my interest with such a peak of knowledge I did not
not have need to peek in my dictionary to verify my own knowledge of these lexical gems.
How about insipid and incipient?? Are they related??
Another "in" word - inchoate - is a synonym for one of the above.
Heh heh ... insipid is cool ...insipid - definition of insipid by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.Quote:
Originally Posted by artme
"not savoury"
:)
Might I strongly recommend "The Etymylogicon" by Mark Forsyth; it's almost a book on the very topic of this post! It's a meandering tour of the labyrinthine and Byzantine connections in the English language, an amusing and erudite exposition of some of the etymological links between words. So he starts with a word, "book", and sees where he ends up...
Also check his blog www.inkyfool.com
No affiliation, btw!
I *just* recalled that when I was about ??12?? I got a book at xmas called "Mrs. Byrne's Dictionary of Unusual, Obscure, and Preposterous Words"
I loved that book! It disappeared sometime in the next 5 yrs or so ...
I did remember it in the past ... and looking on Amazon it was selling between $50 and $200 !!!!!!!
Paul
I happened to look up "Hue and Cry" ... and surprised to read ... Hue and cry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In common law, a hue and cry is a process by which bystanders are summoned to assist in the apprehension of a criminal who has been witnessed in the act of committing a crime.By the Statute of Winchester of 1285, 13 Edw. I cc. 1 and 4, it was provided that anyone, either a constable or a private citizen, who witnessed a crime shall make hue and cry, and that the hue and cry must be kept up against the fleeing criminal from town to town and from county to county, until the felon is apprehended and delivered to the sheriff. All able-bodied men, upon hearing the shouts, were obliged to assist in the pursuit of the criminal, which makes it comparable to the posse comitatus. It was moreover provided that "the whole hundred … shall be answerable" for any theft or robbery, in effect a form of collective punishment."
and it reminded me of a excellent 1hr ABC program ... it involved a QC ... talking about legal terms like "Cease and Desist". It raised a laugh when he started his answer (approximately) "Well, in the 11th century ..."
Legal doublet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What's the difference between "null" and "void" in legal language? - English Language & Usage Stack Exchange
"The history begins, as with so many curiosities in the English language, with the Norman invasion in 1066. At that time, English was the language of the ordinary people, and the law. At first, William the Conqueror interfered little with use of English in official documents, primarily to bolster his claim to the throne, as it was before his reign strongly associated with the crown and kingly continuity. As time went on, however, and as more and more Normans gained positions of prominence in the English court, and were elevated to the nobility, French came to be the spoken language of the upper-class, and Latin, the imported written language of the learned, eventually came to completely replace Old English in legal documents. This continued for some 250 odd years.
By 1275, we find the first statutes written in French, and by 1310 French had overtaken Latin as the language of law. Well, not exactly overtaken; important Latin legal terms, terms of art, were being sprinkled in French language, where needed. We have inherited these terms up to the present day; this is where our civil law gets important concepts like mens rea, habeaus corpus, writs of mandamus, and a million other terms. Still, Law French was the language that lawyers communicated with each other in, and lawyers continued to develop their the profession with it, creating ever new terms of art when trying, pleading, and judging cases. Things continued in this way for a 100 more years.
Curiously, just as French was just reaching its supremacy as official written language of the Law, it was dying out as a spoken language among the nobility. Increasingly, they were speaking a bastardized pidgin of English and French called Anglo-Norman, and by 1400, Anglo-Norman had nearly died out even amongst the royal household in favor of English. Henry V broke things off completely with his Norman heritage after famously going to war with France in the Hundreds Years' War. English, with modifications, had now become the language of all the English people.
Well, mostly. Law French was still the obscure, technical language of the legal profession, and it was contributing many terms of art of its own, particularly in property law: this is where property law jargon like estoppel, estate, and esquire come from. However, even the lawyers eventually lost control of a tongue they didn't speak, and legalese became a complex argot of Law Latin and Law French terms swimming in a sea of ordinary English.
A conundrum. By 1362, we have evidence that the courts were becoming recognizant of this troublesome state of affairs, as a Statute of Pleading was enacted "condemning French as 'much unknown in said Realm'" and requiring that "all pleas be 'pleaded, shewed, defended, answered, and debated, and judged in the English tongue.'" Ironically enough, the Statute itself was written in Law French, and it was not till 200 years later, when the vocabulary of Law French had shrunk to about 1000 words, that English became the dominant language of the law.
Still, all those terms of art couldn't be simply abandoned. So lawyers of the day simply did the next best thing: they imported synonyms acknowledged as "English" to accompany those technical terms, to give the "synonyms" independent legal weight in documents, and eventually, the combination of the two became phrases with inertia of their own. Such as:
breaking and entering
fit and proper
will and testament
free and clear
acknowledge and confess
law and order
to have and to hold
(English terms are italicized.)
"But Billare!" "Isn't your answer supposed to be talking about null and void?" "And, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't null come from the Latin nullus, meaning 'not any, none,' and doesn't void come from the Latin vocivus, meaning 'unoccupied, vacant'"? "Where's the Old English term there?!"
Ah, yes. The punchline. Null and void became a phrase of their own because the two synonyms from Latin were imported at different times into "ordinary" English. I quote from David Melinkoff's The Language of Law:
Early in the reign of Elizabeth I, null – with a long life as a negative in law French and in Latin – became an English synonym for the law's use of void. Another hundred years, and null and void were a team, null taking the place of other explanatory nothingness (no value, no effect) that had often accompanied void. The combination stuck despite frowns in and out of the law.
So it follows the same rule. Null and void is a semantically redundant phrase because it was formed as a compromised term of art, and has continued in this way for a long, long time.
*: All acknowledgments and quotes go to this most excellent book, Legal Language, by a certain Peter Tiersma, where I found basically most of this research. Do read it if you're interested in more."
An excellent little treatise sire!!! Thank you very much!!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:
Remember the court case over Terra Nullus?
I wonder why that term was chosen and not null and void, or indeed just void.
The name Nullarbor Plain sounds Aboriginal, but of course means "no tree".
Good post Paul :). In fact, excellent! It's good to know the proper terms and conditions.
Regards
Paul
More ... :)
Hair of the Dog (that bit you) ... Hair of the dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The expression originally referred to a method of treatment of a rabid dog bite by placing hair from the dog in the bite wound."
But gotta love the hungarians ... I've been saying this for years. :)
"The phrase also exists in Hungarian, where the literal translation to English is "(You may cure) the dog's bite with its fur", but has evolved into a short two-word phrase ("kutyaharapást szőrével") that is used frequently in other contexts when one is trying to express that the solution to a problem is more of the problem."
also ... "short two-word phrase" ?? ... had to edit that. :rolleyes:
more bulls^&$t ?????Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcgee
:D
The origin of some phrases is often claimed by different nationalities and with different explanations.
Take the term "Dark horse". I think we all know what it means but from whence did the term arise?
The first explanation I recall was from the writing of Tom Ronan, an Australian. He said the term arose
from a race where a horse named Dusky Pete was entered. The horse was unknown except for one
person who apparently said that a dark horse would win the race... and it did.
The Americans claim it came from running horses that had been trained at night to avoid scrutiny.
Hence the dark horse.
Benjamin Disraeli used the term in a novel he wrote. A dark horse flashed up and beat the two favourites.
Who is correct??
The term "Drongo'' is used in a disparaging way in Australia to describe an inept person. One explanation for it, again,
comes from horse racing. A Horse named Drongo was supposedly a red hot favourite in several races but ran
second each time. Anything second rate therefore became synonymous with being a Drongo. As Drongo began to
fall further in the placings as his career faded the term drongo took on a new and less flattering meaning.
I dunno ... sounds like a 'Furphy'. :D
Sometimes those dark horses can be fair cows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcgee
Now there's a term I have never quite understood. My understanding is that it originated from Furphy who made agricultural machinery and in particular water carts. However in useage it seems to mean either a dud or a red herring (ooops there's another one :rolleyes:).
Have I missed something or am I being particularly thick? Did the water carts have a poor reputation? Did they leak?
Regards
Paul
Furphy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
I knew that!!!
Now have alook at what is on the back of the cart.
Does anyone know what that strange script is and
what is says?
( I think I know the script. Not sure what it says. )
So a bit like Stephen Fry's QI. Nobody really knows.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shed
Regards
Paul
"Scuttlebutt has a similar etymology, a scuttlebutt originally being a cask of drinking water on a ship."
"Did naat know dat." - Kendra - Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
The Furphy Water Cart
Water Cart Ends
From 1920 the list of products changed and a Pitman's shorthand inscription appeared.
The translation read "Water is a gift from God, but beer is a concoction of the Devil, don't drink beer".
:D
Arthur
Which bit were you struggling with?
Attachment 300542
You should be able to enlarge the pic several times :).
Regards
Paul
Paul has explained all. My water cart had a very innocuous inscription.
I like the fire and brimstone version; Echoes of the ancient cry of the Salvos. "the devil drink."
Regards
Paul
:doh::doh::doh::doh: An attack of dyslexia!! I meant the BACK of the cart!!:B:B:B
To Paul and Arthur. The following is straight out my grey haired noggin so lets see if I can remember the story correctly (I know someone will jump in if I get it wrong).
The Furphy Company used to make agricultural implements. They made a water cart that had cast iron round ends and galvanised sheet metal to form the tank. They were fixed to a very basic cart with cast iron wheels on a simple steel chassis. The army bought some to carry water for the troops during World War I. The carts would usually employ a horse and a man to deliver the water to the troops/army camp. The blokes who would do the runs with the tanks and horse would see a lot more of what was going on than the average "crunchy" (Australian soldier). These blokes would be often asked what was happening in different areas so they were the "go to blokes" to find out what was happening. So human nature being what it is, made these fellows bearers of news which could be right or embellished with a blokes own interpretation of what was happening. So a lot of the time the news these fellows would spread may or may not have been correct so was born "The Furphy"- inaccurate tale of what was happening
On these cast iron ends was a lot of writing in strange languages (I think that is right) but what was legible was a little ditty which read...
Good Better Best,
May you never rest
Until your good is better
And your better best
Here endth the lesson (or have I told a Phurphy?)
Yep. Knew that Rod!!
As far as I know the inscription on the back of he tank - the tap end- is done in Pitman shorthand
and says something about the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
I may be wrong. It could be Arabic, Elvish or Silurian backhand that speaks of something else.
When I was living at Leeton theses Furphy carts often came up at auctions and were very popular
with the bidders. I think many ended up as garden ornaments.
This has been used by one of our forum members, Penturner, as his signature for quite some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by chambezio
I was tempted to use the term 'repudiate' in terms of a debt.
[Latin repudire, repudit-, from repudium, divorce.]
Hmmm ... divorce, hey?
Repudium ... occurs in divorce but one source says that isn't the true sense.
The Principles of Roman Law and Their Relation to Modern Law - William Livesey Burdick - Google Books
"Repudium meant originally ... the breaking of an engagement to marry, while divortium was more appropriately applied to the dissolution of a marriage since the word signifies that the parties go their separate ways."
Doesn't everyone need the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law, Volume 43 By Adolf Berger? :)
Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law - Adolf Berger - Google Books
"A unilateral breaking up of a betrothal. The term refers also to the dissolution of a marriage existing made by one of the spouses either by an oral declaration before witnesses, by a letter, or through the intermediary of a messenger (per nuntium) who transmitted to the other party the wish that the marriage be solved."
Solved? interesting.
[Middle English <tt style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">solven</tt>, to loosen, from Latin <tt style="font-size: 11pt;">solvere</tt>]
[Middle English <tt style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">dissolven</tt>, from Latin <tt style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">dissolvere</tt> : <tt style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">dis-</tt>, dis- + <tt style="font-size: 11pt;">solvere</tt>, to release]
More interesting ... Loosened vs Released.
- - - - - -
In contrast ... Divortium ... Encyclopedic Dictionary of Roman Law - Adolf Berger - Google Books
"A divorce. It was achieved without formalities, simply by a definitive cessation of the common life of the consorts, initiated by common agreement or by one of them, thereby proving that there was no longer any affectio maritalis between the spouses. Therefore, a temporary abandonment of the common dwelling by the wife in a state of excitement (per calorem) was not considered a divortium.
If the conclusion of a marriage was accompanied by a conventio in manum (*) the dissolution of such agreement had to be accomplished by a contrary act.
Usually however a unilateral declaration by the divorcing spouse (repudium) followed the separation, either by writing (per epistulam) - the letter had to be signed by seven witnesses - or orally, directly or indirectly by a messenger (per nuntium)."
- - - - - -
(*) Marriage
There were two types of marriage.
The more conventional -and more ancient form - was a marriage by which the woman became a member of the husband's family. She lost her family rights of inheritance of her old family and gained them with her new one. She now was subject to the authority of her husband. This was the traditional form of marriage, (conventio in manum).
Alternatively there was the free marriage (sine manu). In this arrangement the wife remained a member of her original family. She stayed under the authority of her father and kept her family rights of inheritance with her old family, though didn't gain any with the new family.
This was not a traditional form of marriage and it could simply be annulled by the separation of the couple. It was sufficient for the husband to tell his wife, either in person, or by letter, or by sending a slave that the marriage was at an end, for the free marriage to annulled.
However, the free marriage was generally conducted by marriages between noble households, and hence it was unlikely that one side would so openly insult the other. Far more the separation would be conducted upon agreement of both sides.
Mate where do you get all this info?? Do you own a number of books? Do you have access to a very good
library? How much do you glean from Google searches?
AND.. Why are you interested in such esoteric matters???
The library part is easy ... all Google :) Hopefully all the links are there. Me ... I don't know anything :)
Words and language carry their history along with them, which has always been interesting - and adds to or explains their meaning/s.
Professor Kate Burridge (Can We Help? - KATE BURRIDGE) used to be on the local ABC in the afternoons and she had great knowledge about words and grammar.
People would ring in to complain about peoples' alleged misuse of grammar - and often she would be telling them, (eg) Well ... actually ... that used be the rule in the 1700s ... and is still the case with THIS word and THIS one and THIS one.
For example, if I have it right, people (including me) don't like the US spelling of "color", "labor", "realize" ... but she said that the US english separated from English at an early point, and preserves an early sense whereas English has moved on and intermingled in different ways.
At some stage there was a movement in the US to simplify and regularise (s!) spelling and make it more logical ... hence their "color", "flavor".
I wish I had those conversations recorded ... she had great knowledge and examples on tap ...
Cheers,
Paul
Thanks for the answer.
I have always had an interest in words and wish I had been able to learn Latin at school.
I may not have liked it at that stage but it would have been very helpful.
The point about US English separating at an early stage is interesting. This is why the Americans
use diaper as opposed to our nappy. It is the reason they get offended when the word bugger is
used, no matter the context.
We were always encouraged to use the dictionary as kids. Even though both parents had little or
no education past primary school, they were both intelligent and read voraciously.Dad owned a
large Collins dictionary with a hard red cover. It was well used!!! I received a Nuttall dictionary of
Synonyms and antonyms as a prize in high school. I have a collection of several dictionaries that
receive regular attention.
I remember Kate Burridge. I saw her on TV a couple of times and heard her on the radio now and then.
Speaking of dictionaries and parents.....Dad had a large Oxford dictionary that he let us kids use when we were old enough to "respect" the book. I don't know how old I was but I looked up radar and low and behold...it wasn't there....I then went to the front of the book and found it was printed in 1940! Radar would have been on the Secret Invention list
Wasn't that done by Webster with his famous dictionary. I believe he wanted to not only standardize the language but also to democratize it, away from the poshy aristocracy and back to the common usage of ordinary workers.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcgee
Peter.
I think you are right Peter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturdee
There has been a slight move towards simplified spelling in other English speaking countries.
I just wish the process was a bit quicker. Remember when program was spelt programme?
something to do with French influences IIRC.
If the ALP had its way all words ending in our would be cut to or. Although the spell checker
does that anyway!! Perhaps that's one idea for an election campaign!:q Now there is a silly
spelling - campaign.
Take ph for f. Absolutely no logical reason for this.
Some spellings seem odd but are influenced by the base word. Sign, signal, insignia being
a good example.
It is rich pickings, this stuff.
I'm reminded me of another call. I'm sure someone was pulling their hair out over "burglarize" ... instead of burgle. Sounds "country yokel-ised" to me too ... but I think she said that burglarise existed first and was technically "more proper" in that it is formed in a regular way ... and burgle was backformed from burglar.
American English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"English words that survived in the United States and not in the United KingdomA number of words and meanings that originated in Middle English or Early Modern English and that have been in everyday use in the United States dropped out in most varieties of British English; some of these have cognates in Lowland Scots. Terms such as fall ("autumn"), faucet ("tap"), diaper ("nappy"), candy ("sweets"), skillet, eyeglasses and obligate are often regarded as Americanisms. Fall for example came to denote the season in 16th century England, a contraction of Middle English expressions like "fall of the leaf" and "fall of the year".[67]
During the 17th century, English immigration to the British colonies in North America was at its peak and the new settlers took the English language with them. While the term fall gradually became obsolete in Britain, it became the more common term in North America. Gotten (past participle of get) is often considered to be an Americanism, although there are some areas of Britain, such as Lancashire and North East England, that still continue to use it and sometimes also use putten as the past participle for put (which is not done by most speakers of American English).[68]
Other words and meanings, to various extents, were brought back to Britain, especially in the second half of the 20th century; these include hire ("to employ"), quit ("to stop", which spawned quitter in the U.S.), I guess (famously criticized by H. W. Fowler), baggage, hit (a place), and the adverbs overly and presently ("currently"). Some of these, for example monkey wrench and wastebasket, originated in 19th century Britain.
The mandative subjunctive (as in "the City Attorney suggested that the case not be closed") is livelier in American English than it is in British English. It appears in some areas as a spoken usage and is considered obligatory in contexts that are more formal. The adjectives mad meaning "angry", smart meaning "intelligent", and sick meaning "ill" are also more frequent in American (these meanings are also frequent in Hiberno-English) than British English"
I found this page ... Simplified Spelling Board - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and read "brazen" instead of "brasen" ... and had a slight heart attack.
I am determined on "-ise" vs "-ize" in the same way others will religiously hide their end-grain ... but hadn't thought I should be using "brasen".
But then ...
"Origin of BRAZEN
Middle English brasen, from Old English brćsen, from brćs brass
First Known Use: before 12th century"
and
brazen as a verb in 1555 ... so I guess I'm ok on that one.
Their book is here "Handbook of Simplified Spelling ..." 1920 ... https://archive.org/details/handbooksimplif00boargoog
and interesting to note this passage, which suggests we have already benefited from some pruning of our words :)
James Howell, in his "Grammar" (1662), urged a
number of simplifications in spelling, some of which —
such as honor for honour, logic for logique, sin for
sinne, war for warre, bodily for bodilie, bear for
beare, wit for witt, and their analogs — ar now in
general usage; while others — bel for bell, tru for true,
etc. — ar still regarded by many as startling innovations.
John Ray publisht (1691) a "Note on the Errours of Our Alphabet'*.
It also reminded me of something the professor used to mention that I had more than half forgotten, about the origins of words getting "fluffed over" by some pompous gits wanting to artificially "classicalise" the language ...
"Classical Influences
In the meantime, and more particularly in the 16th
Century, many writers of English, more familiar with
the literatures of Greece and Rome than with the history
of their nativ tung, sought to emfasize their classical
erudition by attempts to indicate in their spelling
the real or supposed derivations of English words from
the Latin and the Greek.
In this way 'b' came to be inserted in debt by those who deemd it important to trace
the origin of the word directly back to the Latin debitum,
rather than thru the French dette (early modern
English dette, det). Thus, too, came 'c' into scissors,
from a supposed derivation of the word from the Latin
scindere, whereas its true basis is caedere, to cut. The
Old French form is cisoires. Chaucer has sisoures.
So, also, came 's' into island, assumed to be derived, like
isle, from the Latin insula, whereas the 'i' really represents
a quite independent Old English word that survives
in ey-ot, Batters-ea, Angles-ey, Aldern-ey, etc.
Isle itself, tho so speld in the earliest Old French, with
the 's' pronounst, had been simplified to ile, to accord
with the changed pronunciation, at the time the word
was adopted into Middle English as ile, yle. It was
speld ile by Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Milton, and other
modern English writers. "
anger - definition of anger by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Hot stuff ...
39. Fuming anger like a toaster with crust jammed against its heating coil —Ira Wood
62. Mad as a wet hen
86. The young man’s wrath is like straw of fire, but like red hot steel is the old man’s ire —Lord Byron :)
Cathartic ... (better out than in) ... :)
9. Anger … like Mississippi thunderstorms, full of noise and lightning, but once it passed, the air was cleared —Gloria Norris
I just now noted the spelling of 'panicked' ... there must be a story behind that 'k'. :)
Wouldn't "c" have to be about the most useless and misleading letter in the English alpahbet??
And don't come at me with "it's needed for "ch"'. Spell "ch" phonetically or invent another symbol!!!
BTW picnic and frolic also use "k" in a similar fashion.
Compare the çk"" with the "cc"" in accommodate. They both produce a "hard" "k" sound.
:shrug::shrug: