Bait For Lee Valley

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

what I did do, was analyse our sales in great detail, and adjusted our prices so that the most popular product gave the greatest margin, and the least popular was almost given away.

Interestingly, increasing the price only made the most popular ones more popular

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Its hard to begrudge someone's opportunism. After all, don't we all try to advance our lot in life?

What I can't understand is the argument I often see on this board that we should support so-and-so retailer/tradesperson because we need to compensate for their higher costs.

Since when did the seller's costs determine the price he/she asks?!?

For example, I pay more than a student or child to see a film or travel on a train, but the cost of the showing the film or driving the bus is the same regardless of who buys the ticket. Midge's example of "increasing the price only made the most popular ones more popular" is another case in point.

Like SilentC said, the sellers' decision on what price to ask for is not restrained by "how much did it cost me" - they ask for what they can get. Sometimes its a seller's market (which seems to be the case for tradespeople at the moment and good luck to them) and sometimes its a buyer's market depending on market demand and supply.

I also don't agree with the argument that "Builder B is charging the right price because his/her quality is better". I reckon that 80% of home-owners are pretty clueless about what makes for a good job (myself included), hence the opportunity for some builders to profit at their expense. This forum goes some way toward countering that.

I'll just step off my soapbox, now, because the air is so thin at this altitude. :D

Sorry but I'm still none the wiser about this bizarre form of measuring area - square feet makes sense, square yards, square metres are all fine - squares - what drunk thought that one up. A few days ago I had a very frustrating conversation with the call centre operative at an insurance company.

CSO : how many squares is your house?

J : haven't a clue - how big is a square?

CSO : err err ... well how many square metres is your house?

I then guestimated in square yards converted that 1:1 into square metres just to be on the safe side and told her the result ... sounds of much clicking calculator buttons followed

CSO : that is XX squares. How many bedrooms does your house have ?

J : 3

CSO : a 3 bedroom house is normally YY squares - would you like me to put YY down.

She might has well have just said how many bedrooms have you got cos its fairly obvious that they don't actually want to know how many squares your house actually is - just how many squares it should be.

On subject of Australian rip off prices - I'll be bringing back a ladder stand-off in my luggage from uk next time I go because the lowest quote I've found here would pay for buying it in the uk + excess baggage + having it gold plated + custom built display case. Its a few bits of aluminium and a spring but apparently they have to be imported from Germany!!!

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Originally Posted by silentC

If any of the arithmetic used still escapes you, I am happy to go into greater detail.

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No that's fine thanks silent, I understood it all perfectly up until the words "To get" :D

But now we have Jackie confused. :)

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Originally Posted by ndru

For example, I pay more than a student or child to see a film

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At one time in my life, through illness I had a lengthy time wearing an eye patch. Every time we went to the cinema I'd ask for a 50% rebate because I only had one eye, and could only see half the screen.

NOT ONCE did I get away with it!!!

Bastards!!!!! (Let's just call them Cinema B from now on shall we??)

P
:D :D :D

Jackie, Jackie, Jackie, when will you ever learn? This daily struggle you have with everything Australian would be made so much easier if you would just lay back and go with the flow. Who cares if squares are a silly and arcane system of measuring house floor areas? That's the way it's done and we just have to live with it.

Now as for ladder stand-offs, I'm not surprised at the cost nor that they have to be imported from Germany because, frankly, I've no idea what one is.

;)

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

At one time in my life, through illness I had a lengthy time wearing an eye patch. Every time we went to the cinema I'd ask for a 50% rebate because I only had one eye, and could only see half the screen.

NOT ONCE did I get away with it!!!

Bastards!!!!! (Let's just call them Cinema B from now on shall we??)

P
:D :D :D

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I used to ask the barber for a discount because he had less work to do. He threatened to charge me a finder's fee. Let's call him Barber C. :D

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Originally Posted by jackiew

square yards..(snip) ...are all fine

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but I prefer them to have a more rectiliniar shape.

I REALLY love this thread.... well it's more a spiral really...

:D :D :D
P

Actually more like a double helix at the moment.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Actually more like a double helix at the moment.

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Wait until the foil hat joins in... ;)

1m2=10.76f2

1m2=1.196yards2

IF 3yards2=1square, then 10.764m2 is one square. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...cons/icon9.gif

I've been looking at house plans a lot lately. Most of them give you squares and square metres. Here's an example of one I'm looking at now: Living Area: 206sqm (22.3sq). 206 / 22.3 = 9.23. Therefore, if they are quoting the correct figures, 1 square must be 9.23 square metres, no?

Gee I thought I asked a simple question.

I always thought that a square was 10' x 10' or 100 sq feet.

Now I'm buggered if I know what it is :eek: :confused:

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Originally Posted by silentC

I've been looking at house plans a lot lately. Most of them give you squares and square metres. Here's an example of one I'm looking at now: Living Area: 206sqm (22.3sq). 206 / 22.3 = 9.23. Therefore, if they are quoting the correct figures, 1 square must be 9.23 square metres, no?

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Are you saying you've found the nine in the 9-10-11 metric rule of thumb??

Now at the risk of starting this all over again:

A square was originally 100 sq ft.

There has been enough mathematical evidence provided above to show that 100 square feet does NOT equal 10 square metres.

With the passage of time some unknowing, lazy people have referred to 10 square metres as a "Square" and I suspect that in a few years it's original meaning will be lost to antiquity.

A "SQUARE" is not a unit of measure, so can be used by anyone at anytime to describe any size without recrimination. You can't go to Consumer Affairs, and complain that you thought a square was bigger!

Now check out the manner in which the area has been calculated. One of the great ploys by the humpy building fraternity is to measure "under roof" which is actually to the outside of the eaves. (A faux-square??) This gives a surprising increase in apparent area, with a surprising decrease in the rate per square metre to build.

Make sure that when you are comparing apples with apples, all areas are calculated to the outside face of the external walls or glass line in accordance with the Standard Method of Measurement.

How big were Builder A's "squares"???

P

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I just went back a few posts and realise that I said I was proving that 1 square = 10 square feet. What I MEANT to say was 1 square = 10 feet square, or 100 square feet. I think this is where the confusion lies. 1 square is 10 feet square, which is NOT the same as 10 square feet. I humbly apologise for any contribution my error might have made to the stability of the system of weights and measures in this great country of ours.

100f2/10.76=9.29m2=9.3m2.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_7_24.gif

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Originally Posted by craigb

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the only reason this bulk order is happening this time around is mainly due to the good offices of DarrylF.

Will it ever happen again?

Who knows.

Ask Darryl (or maybe Rob :) )

For myself, I'm not counting on it.

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I'd do it again, IF nobody makes life difficult for me in this one, I'm not out of pocket and there's a reasonable demand for another go.

http://www.acrobuildingsystems.com/la_Standoff.htm

it gives you the idea what they are used for Silent C but the design of the one I rashly sold before coming out here was a bit different. They are very useful things when you want to clean your gutters and your house is either 2 storey or on a serious slope.

... anyone who knows me knows that going with the flow is going against my essential nature :D

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anyone who knows me knows that going with the flow is going against my essential nature

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We know!!! ;)

Please don't lure them here, the prices will be too much. I can get stuff I want at a price I want and the shipping cost is OK. Much quicker than local outfits and nothing is on "back order!!!!"

It would be interesting to know how much LV sells to OZ per year? Then freight costs.
Would the volume be enough to get distributor discounts? Without a decent discount one would
a. Not make it a viable business (for the distributor)
nor
b. Make it competitive with/for the existing resellers here.

If LV set up a distributor (one would assume, sole, given the market here), then the discount would have to be sufficent for the distributor to make money as well as the retailer (Carbatec/Mik/Timbercon, etc). How would a distributor benefit us? My guess would be an average of at least 10 to 15% reduction on the existing retail on our current retailer's prices were a distribution channel set up. The other advantage of the distributor would be quicker deliveries, quicker repair/exchange for the no doubt occassional failure, perhaps if the distributor were to take more of the pie, then the retailers might be happier as they would carry less stock.

Stop it .... I did this with IT for 10 years and got out ...

Musing ...

Burn

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Originally Posted by ernknot

Please don't lure them here, the prices will be too much. I can get stuff I want at a price I want and the shipping cost is OK. Much quicker than local outfits and nothing is on "back order!!!!"

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I tend to agree.
I don't think the market is big enough to setup a "Lee Valley" in Aus. The thing we all like is the customer service combined with the lower prices we have to pay here.
The customer service comes from a philosophy plus the people. They can try and ingrain the philosophy, but the wrong people can stuff it all up.
As for pricing, I dunno what would happen.
It is much more likely that a sole distributorship would be granted, the profile heightened etc. etc.
What would happen if Carbatec got this right?

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Originally Posted by outback

It is much more likely that a sole distributorship would be granted, the profile heightened etc. etc.
What would happen if Carbatec got this right?

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I'm not sure Carbatec have the right philosophy for LV. I consider Carbatec to be at the cheap end of the market - look at the manual you get for one of their $700 - $2000 machines and then find the equivalent at Grizzly and look at their manual. Either Grizzly has taken it upon themselves to re-write the manual themselves or paid the extra $2.00 or whatever for a decent manual from the manufacturer.

To keep what we have with LV now, I think GPW (Gary Pye Woodturning) would be the best .. they have good equipment and at a very competitive price.

Burn

Speaking for myself, I equate Mik with LV.

Not that I have any issues with Carbatec.

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Originally Posted by craigb

Speaking for myself, I equate Mik with LV.

Not that I have any issues with Carbatec.

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MIK is very good, but GPW started as a mail order house and appears, from it's prices, to maintain the philosophy of good product AND good price. MIK can be a little pricey on some items, but their service can't be faulted (at least from my dealings with them).

My main complaint about Carbatec is manuals. I purchased an air filter from them this week and the manual was a parts diagram - look at the Grizzly equivalent or even Jet's, and they have a manual. With the 8" jointer I picked up last year from Carbatec, it was the Grizzly manual for exactly the same item, that helped my assembly it properly, not the one from Carbatec. I think Carbatec really needs to address this - their manuals are CRAP.

Who reads the manual? ;)

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Originally Posted by silentC

Who reads the manual? ;)

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Me. It's my last resort when something is not working as I expect it to, for those things I think I know about.

But it's always my first port of call when attempting to assemble something that just cost a few months worth of saving or something I've never used before.

I think that Grizzly, Delta and Jet could do serious damage to Carbatec by just removing their online manuals. Because that's where I get most of my infomation about the equipment I purchase from Carbatec - I assume it's the same for most people.

In case you are wondering, we only have Carbatec in Canberra and for major equipment purchases, I am concerned about freight charges on warranty repairs if I dealt with companies in Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne.

Burn

Manual?

He's from Barcelona you know, not his fault, but you can''t expect him to know how to set up a table saw. :D

Has anyone considered the implications of duty on the total value of a bulk order from Lee Valley?
As at the last time I sent an order to them, the total was less than $500 and I was not obliged to pay GST. Since then, as I understand it, the limit has been raised but I don't know what it is now. Whatever it is, the extra 10% if it is exceeded needs to be taken into account.
My son, the maths wizard, once explained to me that a square is a circle with corners. He was 6 at the time.

If you are refering to the Bessey clamp thing, then yes, we all expect to pay 15% of the $A purchase price (10% GST + 5% duty) for goverment charges.

Yep Robert, duty, GST and customs charges were all part of the calculations.