good science, bad science and twaddle

You really try to manipulate it and confuse it dont you, I notice your now adding little waivers, like it cant be different unless .....

So simply put, the discussion on hand is that you believe a sound wave travels at only one speed *velocity* within a material. Is that correct. Anyone that believes otherwise is providing dodgy science as you put it and should be debunked accordingly,:boxing:

and if that doesnt work for you, we will start another thread again..:2tsup:

One good indicator that two people are letting their emotions take over a discussion is when spelling and grammar start to degenerate. It's the unfortunate downside of typing furiously with steam coming out your collar.

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Originally Posted by

If a post annoys you it pays to go and make a cup of tea or coffee and think about the response before the fingers overide the brain.:wink:

SOMETIMES it takes 2-3 cups before responding.:D

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Tried the three cups , think I need a few more :no:

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Originally Posted by Kev Y.

Tried the three cups , think I need a few more :no:

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Now have some of Sturdee's port. :2tsup:

Ive always been bad at english. No steaming happening at this end, Im just letting him dig a deeper hole as we go, Im actually finding it amusing in a way, Getting ready to SQUAT that fly

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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So the discussion is that sound does not vary according to you dependant on its entry angle

So what do I need to prove your statement is nothing more than what you claim you personally started this thread about

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Originally Posted by stolar

i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish.................

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I guees Im going to need a
sound generator
a means of inducing the sound into the material
a set of something to vary the angles its introduced into
something to measure and show the differnt speeds of the sound wave at the different angles

Ahhhhh. What am I going to do.. I know how about I use the sound wave generating thingamaboby that we prepared earlier.
Will post my results along shortly (today)

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Originally Posted by simso

You really try to manipulate it and confuse it dont you, I notice your now adding little waivers, like it cant be different unless .....

So simply put, the discussion on hand is that you believe a sound wave travels at only one speed *velocity* within a material. Is that correct. Anyone that believes otherwise is providing dodgy science as you put it and should be debunked accordingly,:boxing:

and if that doesnt work for you, we will start another thread again..:2tsup:

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I am not manipulating anything, I am asking you to demonstrate your statement that the speed of a wave through a material is a function of an entry angle of that wave. You did say that, didn't you?

Can you demonstrate that or not ?

BTW, can you remind me when did I talk about a speed of a a wave through a homogeneous material without specify conditions that may affect that speed (material itself and frequency). Did you even read what I wrote to you earlier, explaining what exactly was incorrect in your statement ?

Ahhh yes master, will get right onto that now for you:whip:, demonstration coming,and then we ""SQUAT"" that fly

Gotta love these emoticons:roflmao:

sorry, did not see your last post before responding the the earlier one.

I will be awaiting your results with abated breath !

I have an idea for you, why don't you use MDF to demonstrate your theory.
According to you, it is as good as anything for making electric guitars ?!?!

I have just waded through a convoluted thread of nothingness :C:doh::?( is that even a word?):; It appears to me that the old adage of agreeing to disagree has been lost somewhere. :U

I would have thought that by this stage that would have been the case.:2tsup:

By the way, coffee, port, tea, beer, and a dose of cleaning gutters didn't help my understanding or disposition on this thread.:D:D:D

we should be able to agree to disagree, shouldnt we?....
if its something as obvious as the world NOT being flat, then it becomes plain fairly quickly...
but i really do want to hear what everyone thinks.... i think debating issues, and even being passionate, or heated, isnt really a bad thing....as long as you play the ball, not the man...

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Originally Posted by specialist

I have just waded through a convoluted thread of nothingness :C:doh::?( is that even a word?):;

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How do you think I feel. the thread was about me, talk about :banghead:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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So I need a work bench, since it originated from guitars, Ill use that bench, heres my guitar electronics bench

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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So Lets clear the bench, and label it, so it cant be seen that Im using the internet to glean my knowledge, being quassi pseudo rubbish, lets label it

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Originally Posted by specialist

I....
By the way, coffee, port, tea, beer, and a dose of cleaning gutters didn't help my understanding or disposition on this thread.:D:D:D

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You have to steer clear of those gutters you know. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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So we need a sound generating machine, ohh yeh someone that doesnt know what there talking about would always carry one of these, pretty buttons, me just music man

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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And we would also need a sound generating probe, Mmm where did I put that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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And how could I possibly define different speeds if I cant put it in at different angles, Mmmm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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And obviously it can be quantified unless we use some precision material that would be used for let me think, Umm that would be the thing thats used to calibrate the different velocities of sound at the different angles , no way cant be possible....STOP THE PRESS, the world no longer makes sense..Aghhhhhh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stolar

some quasi scientific explanations were bandied around and some decidedly incorrect statements were put forward...............
i subscribe to the notion that if someone published rubbish as a science on a public forum, it needs to be exposed as rubbish..................
The crowning example of a dog’s breakfast of randomly thrown words that may mean something in different order or in a proper sentence: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” this is the twaddle of the year in my book!
As i told you in a PM, a speed of wave DOES NOT vary with the angle of entry.

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But hey Im just a humble musical instrument repairer, who has no idea, and you are clearly correct in starting a thread debunking me.:2tsup:

Now Im going to do some work, people want there guitars back for christmas......Enough pleasure for the time being, will be back soon with it all assembled and show the different velocities for the different angles.:kissing:

Im sure stolar you will find a way to prove that what Im saying is incorrect as you could not be wrong, and Im so glad you started a thread about me and the need to debunk me and my pseudo quassi theories, as you know so much better:roflmao:

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Now have some of Sturdee's port. :2tsup:

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Well, I finished the bottle last night and I still think these posts are all twaddle.:D

Will be opening another bottle tonight, this one is Grand Commandaria Special blend desert wine bottled in 1927, maybe that will enlighten me about all these pseudo scientific balderdash, if not I'll enjoy the drink. :D


Peter.

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

..... this one is Grand Commandaria Special blend desert wine bottled in 1927, .....

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I hope it is still in good order. :)

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Originally Posted by specialist

I have just waded through a convoluted thread of nothingness :D

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and I've just run out of popcorn :q

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

Well, I finished the bottle last night and I still think these posts are all twaddle.:D

Will be opening another bottle tonight, this one is Grand Commandaria Special blend desert wine bottled in 1927, maybe that will enlighten me about all these pseudo scientific balderdash, if not I'll enjoy the drink. :D
Peter.

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Seeing this thread is about pointless nitpicking, I feel compelled to point out that it's dessert wine. Now let's see an argument discussion about that!

Enjoy it however it's spelt. http://cnc.turkeys.net.au/chrissie/santa-smiley.gif

Twaddle me de, twaddle me dum, this little black duck is about to start on the rum......

:sing: It's biggining to feel a lot like Xmas :whistling2:

“the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself”

Correct.

Here is an experiment that is much simpler than the one beginning to take shape above.
Simply put a long pole into the water at about 60 degrees, then put on the face mask and measure the angle between the waters surface and that of the pole in the water.
Repeat with the pole at 30 degrees.
See how the two angles under the water are far different... (or you can just observe it from outside the water, using the eyeball, but measuring gives a verified result)... now strike the pole's end with a hammer so it vibrates and time the period for the water ripples to appear at both the water surface and at the underwater end of the pole. Replicate for both the 30 and 60 degree pole angles of entry.

The 30 degree pole angle of entry will have a time period greater between ripple at surface and ripple at underwater pole end than for the 60 degree pole entry.
e.g. 30 TD RS - RUPE does not equal 60 TD RS - RUPE thus proving that the angle of the dangle slows the boink of the doink.
This result replicates even when using a bigger hammer.

simso, thats good . . lol

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

I hope it is still in good order. :)

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and

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Originally Posted by snowyskiesau

Seeing this thread is about pointless nitpicking, I feel compelled to point out that it's dessert wine. Now let's see an argument discussion about that!

Enjoy it however it's spelt. http://cnc.turkeys.net.au/chrissie/santa-smiley.gif

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As the last 2 were in good order and very enjoyable I trust this one is as well. No argument from me whether it is port or a desert wine, I'll still enjoy it. :D


Peter.

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Originally Posted by springwater

:sing: It's biggining to feel a lot like Xmas :whistling2:

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Ah yes, the season of goodwill to our fellow forumnites.

The time where we agree to disagree in the spirit of goodwill and relax and have a good time, instead of futile, pointless and totally unnecessary bickering.

Seems to be lost here. :((


Peter.

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Originally Posted by Clinton1

“Here is an experiment that is much simpler than the one beginning to take shape above.Simply put a long pole into the water at about 60 degrees,

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Now now, dont bring a logical and easy explanation into this, you'll be accused of presenting easy to understand quassi moto humbo jumbo must rebuke stuff, and then followed up by insistent pm's that your wrong,

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

time where we agree to disagree in the spirit of goodwill and relax and have a good time,

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Ill hick, dwink to that :cheers2:

Drive safe and have a Merry..You too Stolar:santajump:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clinton1

“the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself”

Correct.

Here is an experiment that is much simpler than the one beginning to take shape above.
Simply put a long pole into the water at about 60 degrees, then put on the face mask and measure the angle between the waters surface and that of the pole in the water.
Repeat with the pole at 30 degrees.
See how the two angles under the water are far different... (or you can just observe it from outside the water, using the eyeball, but measuring gives a verified result)... now strike the pole's end with a hammer so it vibrates and time the period for the water ripples to appear at both the water surface and at the underwater end of the pole. Replicate for both the 30 and 60 degree pole angles of entry.

The 30 degree pole angle of entry will have a time period greater between ripple at surface and ripple at underwater pole end than for the 60 degree pole entry.
e.g. 30 TD RS - RUPE does not equal 60 TD RS - RUPE thus proving that the angle of the dangle slows the boink of the doink.
This result replicates even when using a bigger hammer.

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Can you please give us some more information, as i do not understand the details of the experiment.

Is the sound generated by ringing of the pole? Is that why we smack the pole to start it ringing?

What is the pole made of?

Are the ends of both poles at the same depth? Meaning that the pole at 30 degrees would be inserted about 1.73 lengths further in the water than the pole at 60 degrees.

How do you see the ripples at the end of the pole inserted into water ?

if the wave is transferred from the pole to the water how does the inclination of the pole to the water surface change the angle of transfer of the wave to the water from the pole. Think hard as I may, I can only see the transfer of wave from the pole into water is the same in both cases.

Clinton and Steve,

if you manage to prove: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” you will manage to debunk the very Snell's law !

I cannot wait for such a momentous occasion :roll:

Steve,
you are tying hard to make this about yourself, (talk about narcissistic) but it was never intended as such.


Forget about coffee and tea, red does it for me !

this being my thread and about me let me take this opportunity to extend this oldy but goody to all that agree with me or not and those that i do agree with and particularly to those that i do not agree with, and all others that may not be covered by the beforementioned:

Best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most joyous traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, but with respect for the religious persuasion of others who choose to practice their own religion as well as those who choose not to practice a religion at all;


Additionally,
a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the generally accepted calendar year 2011, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions have helped make our society great, without regard to the race, creed, color, religious, or sexual preferences of the wishes.

(Disclaimer: This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others and no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.)

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Originally Posted by stolar

Clinton and Steve, if you manage to prove: “the angle the sound is introduced into the material can vary greatly the speed it travels through it, its noted as compressional sound / shear wave sound and plate, these are all dependant on the angles that the sound is induced into the material alsp on the material itself” you will manage to debunk the very Snell's law !
I cannot wait for such a momentous occasion :roll:

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Wow, still cant let it go can you, I had personally finished and let it go., in the christmas spirit and all, I guess when I go back to work Ill finish that tutorial off,

My earlier statement is kind or relevant now isnt it

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Originally Posted by simso

sometimes you will be walking along the street and theres a fly that buzz's around your face, no matter what you do, you push it away, swing your arms at it and so forth, but no matter what... it keeps hanging around.. In the end you squash the fly.

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Keep it civil kiddies.:wink:

I was going to stay out of this but............

Just cracked a rum and pepsi - the first of a few - this thread is "hill-airy-ass" so what next - sound generators at 20 paces?

I'm the first to admit that what you blokes are on about is beyond me but as this forum is about helping each other out to the best of our ability and with the best experiences/data we have available I would have thought that some conclusion could have been agreed upon by now.

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Originally Posted by snowyskiesau

Seeing this thread is about pointless nitpicking, I feel compelled to point out that it's dessert wine. Now let's see an argument discussion about that!

Enjoy it however it's spelt. http://cnc.turkeys.net.au/chrissie/santa-smiley.gif

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Maybe its the DRY blend. :hahaha:

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Originally Posted by watson

Maybe its the DRY blend. :hahaha:

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Whatever it is, dry or otherwise, dessert or otherwise it taste great.:U

Peter.