end grain cutting board

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Originally Posted by Chipman

I was the one who mentioned grape seed oil... just reporting a fact about a commercial supplier who uses grape seed oil...nothing to do with me in any way!!!!!! They do all the craft markets around Melbourne and have literally about 100 to choose from.....

We actually made endgrain chopping boards in my yr 9 woodwork class (some were pine, others blackwood)....we used organoil hard burnishing oil. Says on the can that it is suitable for food utensils and bowls etc.

I know the parents think their kids work is great and most families are not even using them???? Why? They think they are too pretty to use!

Cheers,

Chipman

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Hi Chipman,

There was nothing wrong with your post. Just as there is nothing wrong with the posts that mentioned the use of Organoil.

Let me quote from an Organiol advertisement "As with Organoils's entire range of Natural Oil Timber Finishes the following Classic Wood Craft Finishes are formulated solely from highly refined plant (wood, nut, seed and citrus) oils and natural ingredients. NO Petroleum Hydrocarbons or synthetic chemicals/resins at all!"

I would doubt that they would be facing law suits due to their products being used on cutting borads. I also doubt that any of the cutting boards would go rancid because of their products were used to finish them.

Regards
Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. It clarified that the finish of a cutting board is not in question here.

What I am after though, is trying to understand :? why you think the Public Liability comment was not needed and how that supports your point of the forum no longer being "... an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions. ..."

The way I read the Public Liability comment was that it is simply a statement of what one person does and why. I don't believe it was meant to be a "You Should or else" comment, or it would have been stated that way. So, I believe the PL Comment was a "sharing of a thought, idea and advice given with good intentions" .

It makes me wonder if you have experienced something in this line where things have gone into the realm of the ridiculous.

Cheers
Wendy

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Originally Posted by RufflyRustic

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. It clarified that the finish of a cutting board is not in question here.

What I am after though, is trying to understand :? why you think the Public Liability comment was not needed and how that supports your point of the forum no longer being "... an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions. ..."

The way I read the Public Liability comment was that it is simply a statement of what one person does and why. I don't believe it was meant to be a "You Should or else" comment, or it would have been stated that way. So, I believe the PL Comment was a "sharing of a thought, idea and advice given with good intentions" .

It makes me wonder if you have experienced something in this line where things have gone into the realm of the ridiculous.

Cheers
Wendy

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Hi Wendy,

It is really a waste of time from my point of view to spend time with explaining my comments. However, I will give it a go to explain what I said and why I said it.

1) I agreed with the statment of a previous post suggesting the use of grape seed oil.

2) then Cruzi posted the following: "Natural or organic oils can go rancid and become very poisionous.

A lot of people do use organic oils, a lot of people change lanes without indicating, a lot of people smoke.

I sell a lot of boards, and public liability demanded a non-organic oil."

3) I interpreted that rightly or wrongly (I doubt that) that in his view my agrrement with the use of grape seed oil was wrong, that it could make the chopping board rancid, that it was just as wrong as changing lanes without indicating and just as wrong as smoking. And that the correct thing to do was to use non-organic oils and as such avoid public liability issues. In other word I interpreted that "the use of organic oils (including grape seed oil) could create public liability problems".

4) The use of grape seed oil on cutting boards is not a recommendation that could or should draw public liability consequences. The suggestion is proposterous! Just as proposterous, that the board would go rancid because grape seed oil was used to finish it! As I pointed out already HYGIENE, that is, the lack of it, is the reason if and when the boards go rancid.

5) An unfinished cutting borad that is used for cutting/preparing food WILL GO RANCID! (Cruzi's recommendation to leave the board raw or to use parrafin oil.) In my view those who follow this recommendation will have problems with their cutting boards even though they would not succeed with any public liability claim!

6) Suggesting that anyone who recommended or agreed with the use of organic oils (read here grape seed oil, organoil products) for finishing the cutting board could create public liability issues for those who follow that recommendation is unfair the least to say in my view.

7) As I said in one of my previous post, people tend to blame others for their own stupidity and mistakes and sue whenever they can. This is the way today! Public liability issues and protection is something that should be on anyones priority list who contemplates running a business/dealing with the public.

8) Wendy, I do not see why you are not asking Cruzi to justify his posting the way you asked me to justify mine. Further more, I would of thought that you as a forum coordinator (not sure what your proper title is), that you knew that use of grape seed oil was a sound recommendation!

As a final point: I believe using grape seed oil to finish the board is just as good or sound recommendation as any other posts. Also, as I indicated I have better things to do in my free time than justifying my posts, especially when they were correct and meant with good intention in the first place. The suggestion of agreeing with a previous post could put people in trouble with public liability matters if they followed that suggestion is not only wrong but forces me to defend my posting. If and when one needs to justify an honest and correct recommendation, the forum hardly can be called "an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions". In my opinion on such forums one does not need to justify his/her postings.

It is rather lengthy, but I hope this explains. (I will not provide any further explanations to this thread! Sorry, I reached my limit for this thread).

Regars
Andy

Hi Andy,

Thank you. You have indeed helped me understand your first posting. For me Point 4, was where the lightbulb went on, so to speak.

I've asked for clarification from you because I didn't understand your point, and if I didn't 'get it', then others may have missed your point or points as well.

As for Grape Seed Oil, I, personally, will never recommend it or use it on cutting boards as I do not believe it is the best finish (for cutting boards, that is). As you have said and I agree completely, it is each person's individual choice what they use.

Again, thank you for explaining your position.

cheers
Wendy

I'm sorry, hygiene has nothing to do with why organic oils should not be used.

Organic oils have a shelf life ie, they deteriorate and become unfit for use over time regardless of what you do.

Grape seed oil has a shelf life of a year, olive oil about 18 months and vegetable oils of around 6 months.

Since a board is used for more than the shelf life of the organic oils, a non-drying oil that does not have a shelf life is therefore recommended.

Drying oils ie BLO and HBO and Organoil are considered foodsafe for sure, but this is on non-abraded surfaces, bowls etc. Using such oils on a board that is cut and chopped on means that you will be eating these finishes. Of course you need to consume a lot before any damage may be done to your health, it is still a risk.

Just because something is natural does not automatically mean safe, many natural substances are quite poisonous. The shells of cashew nuts and nightshade for example.

As for Public Liability, I'm not a business but since a lot of what I make, including boards, is not for my own use, it seemed prudent to ensure that if anything ever did go wrong I was covered.
If you choose not to have such a cover it is up to you, insurance to me is better to have and not use than need and not have.
People are now very litigious and will try anything, even a time wasting suit can cost thousands of dollars to get thrown out.


So, to conclude, if you intend to use a board yourself, go ahead use whatever you want, if however the board is to go to another end user, beware, it is your duty of care to ensure the finish you use is safe.

thanks heaps everyone! i'll put up a pic as soon as its done and of the grass tree bowl i just finished thanks 2 everyones help on here!

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Originally Posted by driftit

hey guys just another probably simple finishing question. Ive almost finished making a jarrah end grain cutting board for a christmas present and was wondering what to finish it with, if anything????
cheers Toby.....

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This same question was addressed by a very recent issue of Popular Woodworking or Fine Woodworking I forget and can't immeditely find the issue.

The recommended finish for END GRAIN boards was thinned varnish (thinned 1:1 with the appropriate thinner), keep applying on a daily basis untill no more will soak in. Stand the board on edge between applications of finish.
the reasoning was that the exposed capilaries are very similar to drinking straws and you need to completly fill the "straws" with something impervious so that food scraps and bacteria can't get beyond the surface of the board.

It was recommended that the completed board be given a fresh coating each year.



ian

Not meaning to start another argument, but I suspect that the species of wood and type of glue will have some influence too. Does anyone have any reliable information on this?

I have heard pine is good and some recommend Titebond II

What about the moisture curing polyurethane glue?


Please no arguments just information please!


Chipman

Titebond II and III are FDA approved for non-direct food contact.

Pine scores highly on anti-bacterial tests and Rock Maple is approved for use in hospitality industry in the US.

Basically close grained timbers are prefered.

An interesting article. I have just made a cutting board to give to a friend. from my limited research Google tells me that paraffin oil is favoured overwhelmingly in the USA.

However, maybe because the web information appears to be mostly views from the USA then this information could be biased in that country's favour.

I went the grape seed oil mainly because a commercial producer said that he recommended this way and so I followed it. The jury is still out as far as I see and at this stage would prefer to eat grape seed oil then parrafin oil.

But I understand why Cruzi may not feel so Cruzi going this way.