saw stop inventor puts his finger into the blade

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21st November 2008, 10:07 PM
Ruddigar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vernonv

Come on Ruddigar, when are you gonna step up to the plate?:U

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wongo

Ruddigar! Ruddigar! Ruddigar! Ruddigar! Ruddigar! Ruddigar!

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Dean

Ruddi, if you are to have any credibility, you need to step up to the plate and do the same. A sausage wont cut it any more. :D:D:D

Righto you lot. Gather around - I have a story to tell.

Not that close, Wongo. Stand over there. A little further please. Thank you.

It was about twelve months ago now that I was summonsed into the bosses office to be confronted with the question: "What do you know about SawStop?"

That question was soon followed by a statement loosely resembling: "We are going to be the Australasian agents for it, and you will manage it. Learn everything you can about it."

So I research my buttocks off. I read just about every thread on this forum discussing it, I study the SawStop website, I read other forums ( :oo: ) and generally perform searches on SawStop on this new thing we have at work called "The Internet". Any questions I have result in a phone call or email to SawStop, with a rapid response.

Finally, I am confident on the product. Very confident. I trust the technology because I understand how it works, and I understand that if it is faulty in any way then the machine simply won't start.

To digress just a little, I have been a member of the human race for the past 32 years, and understand human beings. Or at least the male side of human beings. I believed that the question that I would most be asked when demonstrating this machine with a sausage would be a jocular reference to the fact that I was not, in fact, using my finger for the demonstration. (PS - I was right)

So one afternoon, I come home and say to the good wife: "Wife - I am going to put my hand into a spinning sawblade on a SawStop machine and video tape it, so that when people ask me if I would ever do it, I can show them the video."

She lost it.
She: "What if it fails?"
Me: "It won't start if it is broken."
She: "You're not doing it."
Me: "Just once."
She: "No you're not."
Me: "Yes I am."
She: "No you're not!" ......etc. You've all been there, I'm sure.

Two weeks pass, and we find ourselves on holidays on the Mid-North Coast of NSW. Just so happens that the boss has recently purchased a holiday apartment there, and invites us to dinner.

Walk in, grab a drink, and before my backside has hardly touched the chair the boss is asking about work.

Boss: "How's the SawStop promotion going, Brendan?"
Me: "Well it's been going......."
Wife: "Do you know what he is planning to do? He's going to put his finger in the blade!"
Boss: "No he's bloody not!"

That exact moment cruelled it for everyone. January 22nd, 2008. Approx 1900hrs.

Although I would put my finger in the blade, maybe one time per show, I am not allowed to.

However!

Some of you may have seen me circumvent the bosses rule to show how much I trust the product. I have been known to grab the sawblade, or put a finger into the gullett of the blades teeth, and try to start the saw. It won't start as it has detected my contact with the blade.

That is as close as I can get to showing my faith in the product, which I think you would agree is still showing a fair amount of confidence?
21st November 2008, 10:12 PM
snapman007

He really needs to run his finger into it at the same speed he was cutting the steaks and sheet. If his finger is travelling 20 times faster towards the blade as in real world working conditions, I'll bet my left nut that it draws blood. If it doesn't, he can do the demo on mine.:D
21st November 2008, 10:50 PM
astrid

everything has the possiblity of failure, its a calculated risk thing.
If one of you guys got a sawstop, I would hope that you would only ever trip it once or twice in 20 years. chance of failure and loss of hand almost nothing.
Ruddi on the other hand (:D) demos this quite often, his chance of a injury is increased by.... I dunno, ask wongo.

So stop being silly with the live demo thing. I bet the inventor only did it once or twice:rolleyes:
21st November 2008, 11:11 PM
Ruddigar

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrid

I bet the inventor only did it once or twice:rolleyes:

After seeing this video, I now know of at least three times....
21st November 2008, 11:21 PM
Whit68

my 2p worth.

If it works with a snagger thats good enough for me. I don't have a table saw yet but when I'm ready to buy one the sawstop will get a long hard look.

I like my fingers where they are and not on the floor.

A
22nd November 2008, 09:23 AM
BobL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calm

It looks stupid but if you sell a jack to hold up a truck you would jack up a truck and crawl under it - If TL beleived special gloves would stop her kiln from burning her she would put them on and pick up something hot - If DJ beleived his crane would hold a log to demo he would lift a log and walk under so what is the difference??

I don't quite put the saw stop in the same category. The sawstop demo results in significant cost to the consumer. If Ruddigar or salespeople had to demonstrate this to everyone every time a saw is sold it would make the saw even more expensive. Should the salesman selling the hyundai run it into a brick to demo the air bags every time the car was taken out for a demo drive? Even for a low cost safety item like a fire extinguisher you don't expect a demo when you purchase.
22nd November 2008, 10:37 PM
Wongdai

In a similar vein, the inventor of Mortein drank some to prove it won't hurt humans.
23rd November 2008, 11:00 AM
Shedhand

G'day all

I watched the video demo a few times very closely with an eye to OH&S.

Having actually pushed my finger end-on into an running 80 tooth 300mm blade I think I'm qualified to comment.

In my view, what makes this device suspect is that if you look closely at the crumple mechanism, it and the surrounding space is pristine. We all know that rarely is the guts of a table saw so clean (particularly a cabinet type). Even with a good quality dust extractor, there is always a build-up of fine sawdust which builds up on components in the cutting path - especially so when cutting sappy wood like oregon and crapiata and oily woods like huon pine.

Which brings me to the obvious potential failure inherent in the SawStop. Like others have said the rarity of accidents in any given workshop is in itself likely to lead to failure of the device in the instance it is needed. I can imagine the crumple attachment becoming so clogged with fine sawdust over time that when the blade hits it after contact with your flesh, it will be unable to stop it leading to some catastrophic failure of the blade itself or the spindle. Whilst I regularly take to the insides of my cabinet with a vacuum nozzle, many wouldn't and for that reason alone I wouldn't bother with fitting a SawStop.

The device should come with a warning that it could fail to operate unless the saw enclosure is kept dust free in the cutting path.
My 2 bobs worth.
Cheers
Mike

PS: It didn't work on the steak because the SawStop wasn't yet fitted.
23rd November 2008, 09:50 PM
Ruddigar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedhand

Which brings me to the obvious potential failure inherent in the SawStop. Like others have said the rarity of accidents in any given workshop is in itself likely to lead to failure of the device in the instance it is needed. I can imagine the crumple attachment becoming so clogged with fine sawdust over time that when the blade hits it after contact with your flesh, it will be unable to stop it leading to some catastrophic failure of the blade itself or the spindle.

Mike,
The crumple zone itself does not stop the blade. The crumple zone is there to absorb a lot of the energy that makes itself apparent when you fire a block of aluminium into a sawblade and stop it so quickly. Even so, for the crumple zone to become blocked, you would have to be about 700mm deep in dust within the cabinet....time to get a new dust extractor.... :p

The whole cartridge unit is sealed, to keep fine dust out, but even SawStop admit that some dust can find its way in. This is why the system performs constants 'self-checks'. If there is anything wrong with the safety system, then the machine will not start. If the blade will spin, then the blade will stop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedhand

Whilst I regularly take to the insides of my cabinet with a vacuum nozzle, many wouldn't and for that reason alone I wouldn't bother with fitting a SawStop.

PS - you can't "fit" a SawStop. You have to buy the machine.
23rd November 2008, 10:02 PM
Shedhand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruddigar

Mike,
The crumple zone itself does not stop the blade. The crumple zone is there to absorb a lot of the energy that makes itself apparent when you fire a block of aluminium into a sawblade and stop it so quickly. Even so, for the crumple zone to become blocked, you would have to be about 700mm deep in dust within the cabinet....time to get a new dust extractor.... :p

The whole cartridge unit is sealed, to keep fine dust out, but even SawStop admit that some dust can find its way in. This is why the system performs constants 'self-checks'. If there is anything wrong with the safety system, then the machine will not start. If the blade will spin, then the blade will stop.

PS - you can't "fit" a SawStop. You have to buy the machine.

Thanks for that Ruddy (any relation to my very good mate, Kev? :p
Didn't realise you had to buy a whole new saw. I guess I'll be keeping mine for the present. Thinking back, my finger only hurt for a couple days and I did get to keep it afterall....:D my reflexes are only 399 miliseconds slower than Sawstop.....:C
23rd November 2008, 10:28 PM
weisyboy

:ranton:

i ran my hand threw a table saw a wile back as some may remember.

it cut all my fingers in one way or another (all needing stiches) except my middle finger:? but it cut my ring fingerfinger over half way threw the middle joint.

it cost less to have a specialist fix it then reconstruct the joint 3 weeks latter than buying the stuff to fix a saw stop.

nothing can work 100% of the time it is imposable. if the mecanisums are put together by hand then there is human error and if done by machine then it is only as good as the bloke who built it and it will make a mistake at some stage or another.

as for electronics there are so many things that can go wrong with anything electric that i wont even go there.

you say it wont start if something is wrong. how much is it going to cost to get someone out to fix it it would be to heavy to send back to the factory for repairs and no matter how much of a handy man you are there is a huge posability that if you fix it yourself then it wont work. not that a repair man would be much better and its to dear to run a snag threw just to check.

:rantoff:

you all know my stance on OHS.

and i know im not the only one who removes all the saftey gear when i get a machine so let the ???? fly.
24th November 2008, 07:02 AM
Geoff Dean

Carl. ever heard of the Darwinian awards?

I get the feeling that one day you may "win" one of them. :(:rolleyes:
24th November 2008, 08:46 AM
Ruddigar

Quote:

Originally Posted by weisyboy

it cost less to have a specialist fix it then reconstruct the joint 3 weeks latter than buying the stuff to fix a saw stop.

Really? :? It cost less than $150? I find that hard to believe...

What about the pain and trauma? A joint reconstruction three weeks after your accident....or five minutes to replace your blade and cartridge and keep all your digits intact....I think I know which one I would prefer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weisyboy

you say it wont start if something is wrong. how much is it going to cost to get someone out to fix it it would be to heavy to send back to the factory for repairs and no matter how much of a handy man you are there is a huge posability that if you fix it yourself then it wont work. not that a repair man would be much better and its to dear to run a snag threw just to check.

If the safety mechanism is not working, then the saw won't start. If the safety mechanism is not working, then the safety mechanism is faulty and will be replaced free of charge.
How hard is it to replace the safety mechanism? Easier than changing your sawblade.
24th November 2008, 08:52 AM
silentC

Quote:

It cost less than $150? I find that hard to believe...

It's probably true because he would have admitted himself to emergency as a public patient and so the repair bill is charged to the tax payer instead of making the twit pay for it himself.
24th November 2008, 10:27 AM
jmk89

We all know that Carl has a "robust" view of safety. That's fine because he takes the consequences himself and he doesn't complain whenhis approach to safety leads to injury to himself (although as Silent points out, he doesn't pay for the cost of that attitude alone - it is spread to the rest of us either through the public health system or through the private health insurance system or both).

But no-one is making Sawstop compulsory (at least now, that is). I think it remains a valid market participant and for those of us who do not have Carl's attitude to injury (or worse those who do not think themselves indestructible), it is a real question whether the extra layer of protection it provides is worth the $1500 - $2000 that you have to pay to get it.

There is no need to rant - just let people who want to look at it and consider buying it go ahead and do so.

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