Need advice on dishwashers..

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Originally Posted by rodney

One thing you may have to consider is how long you are willing to wait for it to complete a cycle.

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Don't really care to be honest. I'll never understand those that obsess over whether a machine with no human input takes 30 min to do a job or takes 1h30m to do a job as long as it's done properly. Of course if you are in a commercial environment then thats another story. No matter which way I look at it as long as I'm not doing the dishes I can watch tv/read/listen to music etc so it's all infinitely better :lol:

To everyone:
I'm more and more inclined to go bosch the way it's heading. I was kind of worried about the plastic trays in the westinghouse and the plastic arms in the first place but was going to overlook it if there was an overwhelming positive response but doesn't seem to be that way..

Heading down to the auction to see what they have available but like all auctions one can't be picky so depending upon what on offer it'll probably be a waste of time since I'm being picky.

Going on past experience, extended warranty on this level of machine (Bosch, Miele, et al) will be a waste of money.

Probably should point out that the quality of the powder/tablet you use is quite important to the end result too. Was ready to throw the Simpson that came free with our house, as dishes and cups came out looking filthy. Changed to Aldi's 5 in 1 tablets and the difference is astounding. I mean, it isn't something you'd normally get excited about, but they really do work!

Have had good runs with the current Asko and the earlier Kleenmaid.

That said, anyone in the market for whitegoods, or any consumer goods for that matter, would find $20 well spent on a 3 month sub to Choice online.

Fisher and Paykel usually test among the best btw.

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Originally Posted by q9

Going on past experience, extended warranty on this level of machine (Bosch, Miele, et al) will be a waste of money.

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Yet to stretch the budget I'm going to have to sacrifice the extended warranty bit..not sure if thats a good thing

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Originally Posted by q9

Changed to Aldi's 5 in 1 tablets and the difference is astounding. I mean, it isn't something you'd normally get excited about, but they really do work!

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Yeh heard good things about the aldi stuff. Doesn't look expensive anyway and with a load a week one box will last me 40 weeks so it's probably more economical than what I'm currently using in the sink in terms of dishwashing costs :)

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Originally Posted by rsser

That said, anyone in the market for whitegoods, or any consumer goods for that matter, would find $20 well spent on a 3 month sub to Choice online.

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Already have. Their last report recommended
Westinghouse SB916WK (A) * $949
AEG 40760 (A) * $1099
AEG F86080UM (A) (B) $1599
Westinghouse SB908WK (A) * $849

Then you look at buyers who would buy the same brand and bosch is 93% while westinghouse is 80% so even though it's supposedly better it's 13% less likely to be bought again than a bosch. Reliability is also with the bosch at 95% vs 89% of westinghouse. Of course none of these stats tell you which models people bought and whether reliability has increased or decreased since they bought it.

I'm not sure their findings correlate these days to the best overall product when all is weighed up. The test seem a little too simple. One washer may be able to handle a particular setup better than another but we aren't all going to be washing avacado off plates all the time and if your dishwasher breaks down after 5 years it's really annoying no matter how well it washed up to that point.:)

General comment:
I went looking at the auctions, both grey and laws in Sydney (wetherill park area) and came back less than impressed. Greys no longer have the traditional auctions. They now do online only for those who didn't know. Must of recently changed as I remember heading there 6 months ago and the traditional auction was still going. The auction sites are just pickup places now. Very disappointing as online auctions never save you any real money since it requires little effort to log in vs attend in person so more bidding occurs and factoring the 12.5% buyers premium ontop and the reduced warranty from 2 years to 6 months (sometimes nothing) it's a waste of time.

Laws was rubbish as usual. Dishlex with a couple of scratches had a buy it now price of $500 +12.5% buyers permium with 6 months warranty. In the Shops I pay $625 (with a bit of bargaining) and get 2 years...pft. Yes the auction may get a slightly cheaper price but if they don't get to reserve they don't sell and reserve is usually ~$50 less than the buy it now price in most instances from experience. Not only that but talked to a couple of guys who admitted that most machines are seconds which have been repaired. Waste of money wrt whitegoods these places.


I miss the days of real auctions and real bargains when stock used to be auctioned because it was an old model or they didn't sell and the seller needed room in the warehouse. Things where still in their cartons sealed. These days with delivery straight from the manufacturer it no longer happens. It seems hardly worth the effort to turn up these days..

(PS: this is not a dig at the guy who suggested auctions. I really appreciate all the input It's sound advice if you can find the right type of auction but in Sydney it's becoming rare with more and more people moving to online auctions and prices becoming uncompetitive unless you think HN is the cheapest you can get when quoting price :lol: I only bought it up just so others are careful wrt pricing and seconds that auctions tend to sell).

At the risk of telling you again something you already know, if you're a subscriber to Choice then they'll run around and get a best price for you.

You first tell them what you've been quoted and they work to beat it.

Saved me hundreds on a split system a/c.

As for their tests: of course they can't test everything. And the repeat purchase data often involves small numbers of respondents. So it's just part of the picture. But at least they're independent. How often do you see a major car mag say at the end of a test 'avoid this like the plague!'?

The SB980WK is the new unit made in Italy, looks to be a good unit. there is a recall on re the main control printed cct board.(if the unit is between xx and xx serial nos. check the electrolux webb site for the nos.) If it comes in the recall range it is only a simple fix and all is well. Other than that it looks to be a lot better than the old units. I would certainly have it on my shopping list. Also it is serviced by electrolux themselves. Bosch are ok but not as good as the older units.

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Originally Posted by rsser

At the risk of telling you again something you already know, if you're a subscriber to Choice then they'll run around and get a best price for you.

You first tell them what you've been quoted and they work to beat it.

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They've never been able to bargain down as far as I have in person from my limited experience. Sure they save you some money if you aren't really good at dealing with sales people and negotiating though by the time I end up with it the price is the best.

I end up picking up my knowledge while going to a few places to get an idea of the product and while there see how low they can go. Then after a couple of weeks I have a rough idea and drop the price by another hundred and usually get it albeit with the usual drama's, that is, no thats too low we can't do it you got a great deal you should take it and as I thank them and walk start walking out they realise the games over and they either take the price right then and there or lose the sale. Most times they take the sale, especially in large appliances where movement isn't that fluid and sales ops are limited.

I have had a Bosch for the last 11 years and it has never missed a beat. Advice from kitchen maker, spend more on the dishwasher as it is the appliance that cops the most use everyday.

We have a Kleenmaid unit and have it installed for a little over 7 months now and the motherboard went on her just last week (its all electronic) luckily its still under warranty but this unit was suppose o be the best of the best on the market as far as energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

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Originally Posted by patty

energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

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Yeh I'm a bit weary of the water saving/energy saving machines in general. I tend not to guage how good a machine is just by those. Usually it's only a litre or two difference between 2.5 stars and 4 stars but if that saving results in crappy results then it's a waste of time. I skipped kleenmaid as a friend of mine had problems like you did and I've been hearing they've gone downhill and aren't what they once were.

Hope I'm doing the right thing going the bosch (not the lowest base model but close enough :) ). The more expensive models have a few extra feature but like anything they add complexity which equates to more chance of failure. Programme wise doesn't seem like it's worth an extra $300 for them. I'm happy with my bosch frontloader but I've only had it for 2 months when the old top loader packed it in (F&P :roll:)

im looking at a delonghi dishwasher, are they just rebadged something else, any1 got any reviews

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Originally Posted by patty

We have a Kleenmaid unit and have it installed for a little over 7 months now and the motherboard went on her just last week (its all electronic) luckily its still under warranty but this unit was suppose o be the best of the best on the market as far as energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

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I used to work at their head office. I bet if you knew the pool of manufacturers they use you'd probably be fairly disappointed, especially given the price you would have paid. I'm not saying they're "bad" products, but I personally believe you can do better for the money, you just have to live without the 10 year warranty that you are ultimately paying a premium for.*


* of course, I could just be a bitter ex-employee so all statements are to be treated as opinion, not fact:wink:

Hmm, we had one; worked OK except for not drying completely; and lasted OK.

But when you see how often the local retailer discounts the brand .. makes you wonder.

Now have an Asko. Works fine except the bottom tray wheels have a tendency to fall off.

I worked for a company with a very large number of rental apartments and houses. We routinely bought reconditioned white goods for the units. They were priced at about about 60% of the wholesale price of comparable new goods; all rubber parts, bearings, seals, and worn parts had been replaced, fully tested, carcases re-sprayed and looked like new. Came with 180 day warranty - which we rarely had to use.

About 15-20 years ago we made a corporate decision never to buy Email products - Simpson, Westinghouse, Kelvinator, etc - as their reliability was crap and their parts service was abysmal.

Although not always available reconditioned, we found that generally the best products were German or Scandinavian made - Miele, Bosch, Asko, etc. And the stuff we bought was used in rental units where they sometimes were not treated as well as you would if you owned them.

Cheers

Graeme

Another vote for Asko (if you can't afford the Miele) - we got one for about $900 and there's no comparison to lesser machines (that weren't much cheaper) and its just the basic model.

Don't think I'd consider anything else again (can't justify $2000+ for a Miele just because it has a 20 year life vs 10-15 for Asko, I'm not going to be in that house for 20 years!)