DIY 'Ripple Signal' Ceiling Fan Noise Fix ?

Hi, well, a most interesting problem. After reading all the posts and having a little think about it:rolleyes:.
Am I right in reading that the fan noise is there when the lights are on? These lights are dimmer controlled? I would suggest if that is the case the problem may lie with the light dimmers.
Light dimmers use electronics that turn on for a particular part of the time cycle of the power supply. The longer they are on the brighter the light and vice versa. The dimmer will turn on typical 50 to 100 times a second depending on type.
This may cause fairly high instantaneous current to be drawn from the mains (only for a very short time) at the instant the dimmer switches. This can result in a very quick drop in voltage on the mains which can affect the rotational speed of the fans and may result in the fans very quickly slowing down and then resuming speed.
I guess thats easy enough to check. Turn all lights off and fan should work normally. If you want to get really sophiscated you could get the mains checked for any harmoinc noise pulses with a oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer.
Do you have any other electrical equipment that use electronic control that could be the cause?. Do you have a computer which is left on? Or a Tv on standby. Sometimes these items, because of the pecularities of their power systems can introduce "harmonics" into the mains also.

Solution: remove dimmers. install suitable filters( may be costly). Install air con.

Sorry Pedro but you a not on the right track my friend. The fan noise is from the voltage fluctuation caused by the ripple injection signal.
Anyway this is the latest.
Spoke to the manufacturer of my fans (Hunter Pacific) and they sold me a filter for the signal. According to them the problem is wide spread and creating a lot more calls to their warranty department. After much discussion, they advised me that they stock the filter and sell it a no profit for customers. They also told me that one filter connected to the circuit would cut the signal out throughout that circuit. The price for such a filter would be $100 incl deliv and GST. Well after waiting a month (because they were out of stock) the filter arrived yesterday. It is about 12cm long x 5cm wide x 3cm thick (I say about), and arrived with the invoice and no instruction manual. I noticed that there was a 1Amp in line fuse and thought that was suspicious since the light circuit I want to attach it to has a 10amp circuit breaker. Fortunately the manufacturers details were printed on the filter and I was able to contact them direct. They straight away corrected me and told me that the filter that I was supplied was only to be hooked up to one fan only. They also said they supply a filter for a 10amp circuit at $440 and its size is approx 20cm square and is sometimes either mounted in the roof or switchboard depending on the room.
FYI, if you want such an item contact the supplier directly as I found them to be most helpful. Their details are as follows:

Item: Zellweger Tone Filter Unit
Manufacturer: Gayrad
594 Old Bympie Road
Narangba QLD 4504
Ph 07 28886566
Fax 07 38886543


BTW, installed it tonight and it is working like a charm. I'm not that impressed that $240 fans (x4) will cost me an extra $400 to stamp out the noise. Thank god no more intermittent Whun, Whun, Whun..... in my room at least.
Cheers
Dean

Well, Deanom, good to see that you at least have managed to find the cause of this strange fan behaviour.
I must admit I have fans also but have never had a problem of this nature with them. I wasn't aware that the voltage ripple would be enough of a level or frequency to affect fan motors in this way. I also have ripple controlled hot water and you can hear the tones emanating from the control unit if standing near the switchboard when they are sent.
I will enquire from people in the industry what sort of level and freq they use.
Its a pity that the fix is so expensive. I am also surprised that it doesnt adversley affect more equipment particularly electronic stuff.
Maybe some people notice its affect more because of being closer to the source of the signals so they are at a higher level.

Well, it's been a month since my last entry and that's mainly because I had nothing more to say ... until today !

When I walked to the train station this morning I noticed a couple of Energex guys shimmying up the power pole across the road that fed our house. I thought it was a bit strange but it reminded me to call Energex to chase them up about the fan noise problem.

Anyhoo, when I got home this afternoon I found a couple of pieces of paper in our letterbox from Energex. One of them was a small note explaining that they've installed a monitoring device to our supply wires and the other one was a fault log asking us to record as accurately as possible whenever the problem occurred. This is obviously for them to compare the times of the reported problems to whatever the box monitors up on the pole.

Now this is progress ! Strange they hadn't even bother to call me over the last month to tell me what was going on tho, oh well.

I took a picture of the pole & the monitoring device just before the sun went down too far. It might interest some of you. The monitoring box is the beige thing strapped to the left side of the pole. See it here: http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...itoronpole.jpg

So, this could be interesting afterall ! I might be able to prove once and for all that it's a power supply problem and not a fan or installation problem ! Yay.

Deanom, great to hear you've found a solution by asking the manufacturers. Going by the brand and cost of your fans it sounds as though you have the same ones as us. Great looking and very effective fans but awful when they make this noise hey :(

Well, I'd better go now and start recording the fan noise for Energex. I can't wait to hear them say something like "well, it seems as though you need a notch filter installed" and "we'll be around tomorrow to install the filter for you for no charge". Hey, I can dream can't I ;)

Check back here again soon OK !

was that your pole I was on?

Spartan, are you serious ??

If so, what does the street name start & end with and what letter doubles up somewhere in the name ?

I can't believe this ;)

I'd say i've done a couple each day of this week. Plus some low volatge call outs. All on the nth side of Brisbane.

So anything is possible but not likely, as there are crews doing this all the time and not just because of customer complaints/queries like yours....:U

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Originally Posted by SteveAndBelle

Well, I'd better go now and start recording the fan noise for Energex. I can't wait to hear them say something like "well, it seems as though you need a notch filter installed" and "we'll be around tomorrow to install the filter for you for no charge". Hey, I can dream can't I ;)

Check back here again soon OK !

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ROFLMAO:D

Ha, yeah. I was ROFLMAO'ing too just thinking about that :)

Nah, I'm inner West Brissie. I have been filling out my log form and reporting any noise bursts to the second so they know exactly what's going on and can hopefully compare it to something their monitor box will reveal.

I have noticed though that it mainly happens right on the hour and half-past the hour for a few minutes and then stops for another 28 minutes until the next time. It can run randomly on and off for short bursts of 2 seconds or so plus it can also run constantly for about 30 seconds at a time during these few minutes. I don't think I've heard the same 'pattern' twice ... and I'm not going to sample it to compare either ;)

I've never noticed how regular it is until tonight as I've been staring at a clock for most of the evening trying to be as accurate as I can for the log report thingy.

This has now concreted the fact that it has to be 'Ripple Signals' surely ?!?!? What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ?? Anyone ?

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Originally Posted by SteveAndBelle

What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ?? Anyone ?

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What about the weather forecast on sky news that's on every half hour - it maybe something to do with all those troughs:rolleyes:.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SteveAndBelle

This has now concreted the fact that it has to be 'Ripple Signals' surely ?!?!? What else would be so regular and fit in so conveniently with the strike of a new hour and new half-hour ?? Anyone ?

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Steve,
I tell no lie, it is Ripple signals. I had a pdf document from Hunter Pacific (fan manufacturer) detailing the problem. They claim the noise can even be picked up in things like toasters (if operating), fridges and other similar appliances with motors. The other night I picked up the noise in the Meile range hood when it was operating. Apparently the voltage of the signal should be something like 10V but can be more depending on the distance from the Ripple Signal Injection device. The frequency is usually 1050hz but you can check this if you go to the meter box and read the details on the receiver. My receiver is something like 1043Hz.
These ripple signals are frequent. They switch on other things like pumps (whose pumps im not sure but may be sewer/public utilities), street lights, two domestic tarriffs and a whole heap of other stuff. After switching them on, they also need another signal to switch them off. I tried to attach the pdf from Hunter pacific, but it constantly scans over 150kB and this forum wont let me attach it. I'll email it to you if you like. Why dont you give the supplier of that filter a call. He is a wealth on information. He even told me he has his aircon connected up to the second tarrif and he rarely finds the electricity off when he needs his aircon. Call him, I'm sure hell tell you.
Cheers

FWIW, I fixed a buzzy bedroom fan by tightening the three screws which hold the glass shade on.

Pete

Sorry Millennium, this is definitely an electrical noise, not a mechanical noise ! I know it's hard to imagine but those who have experienced it will know exactly what I'm talking about :)

OK, here's where we're at ...

I just called Energex for an update on this issue. The nice technician told me that the 1050Hz ripple signals the monitoring equipment picked up over the last few weeks had been over the magic 10 Volt level, but not by much.

He told me that they had been waiting for parts but they would soon be installing a filter onto the pole feeding our house to hopefully solve the problem. Pity our neighbours will still have to put up with the problem (if they have it) but oh well, they can complain themselves if they need to :)

He also told me that the filter probably wouldn't fix the problem for everything effected in the house (obviously) but it will definitely make a noticeable difference to the fan noise which is what we're really concerned about anyway. The poor quality crappy touch lamps we have on our bedside tables will still probably 'shimmer' while they're dimmed whenever the ripple signals are transmitted however we're not too concerned about that. Our main concern is the noise from our expensive fans. We only bought those particular touch lights because they looked the part, not because of the touch dimming ability. I was seriously considering ripping the cheap dimming circuitry out and mounting a simple elegant switch in the base anyway so maybe this will be the catalyst for that little project :) Hmmm, maybe a nice 'euro style' metal rotary dimmer switch ... hmmmmmm.

So, that's it for now. I'll update this thread once I know more of the filter installation OK.

Hopefully the problem will be fixed just as winter hits where we'll be relying on the fans all the time ;)

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Originally Posted by SteveAndBelle

...and mounting a simple elegant switch in the base anyway

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Or just an inline (cord) switch.

Recommended mod :2tsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SteveAndBelle

I just called Energex for an update on this issue. The nice technician told me that the 1050Hz ripple signals the monitoring equipment picked up over the last few weeks had been over the magic 10 Volt level, but not by much

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Thanks for the update.
I'm a hundred meters or so away from a substation so maybe I'm getting more signal here.

I have family living around the corner and the noise at the meter box on the front verandah has actually woken someone asleep on the lounge a few meters away.

It only bothers me as I get horizontal lines across my TV when the noise occurs.