Are boys always naughty?

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Originally Posted by Wongo

I spoke to my wife last night. Asked her to have a word with the parents next time they meet – today. If they stay defensive then my wife will leave the mothers group. Apparently the other 2 mothers also feel a bit tired of the boys too. Last year the boy hit one of the girls in her face.:mad: The mother of the girl got really unset. Still don’t know how he could get away from it.:mad: .

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Mate there are no bad kids only bad parents

Don't get your wife to leave the group , it is proberly a group she gets heaps of support out of , stuff us males just don't understand and never will , My advice is that she talk to the other mothers in the group and ask the mothers of these disruptive (for want of a better word ) to leave
Mate think how much does your wife get out of being able to and mix with other mothers the same age and how often does you daughter interact with kids the same or similar age.
It is a fact of life there are a-holes out there and there are bad parents and you can't protect your kids forever much as we would like to, the best we can do as parents is to edcuate warn and bring up ours with respect and morals then hope
Or if all else fails or someone needs a good talking to ( for want of a better term ) then as a dad we step in and sort out the problem



And old rule of thumb " You make me daughter cry then I WILL make you cry"

Rgds

It is definatley in the up bringing. Parents with nice kids are fair but strict and parents with feral kids think the kids will learn as they go. Without proper guidance they turn out to be shytes.

Its the parents not doing their job.

I teach English to kids, lots of them. Over 300 per month.

The boys here have some fascination of jamming their hands into, err, certain anatomical areas I reserve for people I am very familar with, ie: myself and myself alone.

When they do this to me, as they always do the first time I teach them, I grab their hand, not hard but enough to know that their is lots of strength there and it would be easy to break their hand off, look them in the eye, say no (in Japanese) and let go.

Stops it instantly.

This is because an awful lots of kids here get away with murder, so to speak. The parents do not believe their kids do anything wrong and do not scold them very often for anything. So the poking (and other things) gets left unchecked.

I let them know one single time that I am running the show, and I will not let them get away with anything 'wrong' and they become angels, simply because they realize that someone will not put up with it and will do something about it.

Something nobody has ever done before for most of these kids.

I'd never ever hurt them, but I will not tolerate that kind of thing, be it to me or to someone else.


Lots of the imports here have kids, lotsa boys, and they are all very well behaved, period. In comparison to, not most, but a large number of locally born and bred kids, they are absolute angels. They play hard, don't pull any punches, but they sure as heck do not cross the line (often) and when they do they know all about it instantly.

So, it's the parents. And they will have to reap the seeds they unknowingly sow.


I just hope the little fella here turns out alright. ;)

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Originally Posted by Schtoo

I just hope the little fella here turns out alright. ;)

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But just don't beat yourself up if he doesn't. I've seen much heartache also from loving good parents whose kids still go off the rails. Uno, try everything, but to no avail.

I agree entirely parenting influences much...so is very important.....still I think theres a bit of the genetics involved as well ....... some kids can't help being themselves, which unfortunatly is not always how we'd like them to be.

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Originally Posted by bennylaird

They need to be jumped on early, a stern voice and a threat is all most need but a kick in the backside is a good exclamation mark...

Has to be a balance and a hurt pride is all thats needed to instill respect for others.

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Spot on. My kids (one of each) have had their moments, but the knowledge that Dad WILL come down on them if they go overboard has meant they are mostly pretty good. It's not rocket science - just consistency and clear boundaries.

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I agree entirely parenting influences much...so is very important.....still I think theres a bit of the genetics involved as well ....... some kids can't help being themselves, which unfortunatly is not always how we'd like them to be.

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This is very true. I know of a few kids who, despite their parent's best efforts, have turned out to be very pleasant well balanced kids. One of my son's mates has been shunted from pillar to post in the last couple of years because his mum is a smack head. She loses the plot every now and then and the Grandparents have to go in and rescue him. Doesn't even know who his father is. Some other loser was playing Dad but he got turfed out a couple of weeks ago. Despite that, he is a great kid.

His mum was a problem child at school. She was charged with assault at 16 for beating someone on the school bus with an iron bar. Her parents are good friends of ours and they have another daughter who has made something of herself. Ask them what went wrong and the wont be able to tell you. One turned out OK and the other lost the plot from an early age.

There are too many situations like these to just write it off as the parent's fault. I think that within certain limits, you can have an impact on how your kids turn out but just watching my two, I know there is a lot of hard-wired stuff that you can do nothing about.

Not a good situation Wongo, and I think you handled it pretty well, I mean without arcing up. A splinter mother's group is the next step me thinks!

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Originally Posted by Wongo

And if they do [not?] want to discipline their own kids then it is not much I can do.

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Yep, you've got to step a fine line here. A few years ago I didn't fully consider the outcome...at a fairly frequent gathering of some families (all mates) the littlest boy kept yanking my daughter's hair, hard. :mad: This was an ongoing problem for many months, and Aella has long hair and it always ended in her tears, so I kept telling her to keep her distance. No one seemed to think it was the boy's problem, so no discipline there. Well, one time too many and this particular night I let out a very loud & exasperated "NO (insert name)! Stop pulling her hair!" as I rescued my daughter out of the little bugger's clutches. Well wasn't I the biggest asrehole that night!! One of the party was a Danish psychologist...and the Danes are very much into children's rights and no smacking (which I didn't do). So we had a few words, and I couldn't get through to her about my child's rights, and how it upset me to see her in pain. The long term outcome is that from that moment these parents (once our best mates:( ) never felt comfortable around us, because of my possible reaction to the boy's wayward behaviour (I felt vindicated in the long run, a very problem fella, identified at school, etc), it all blew up and we no longer see them. The cause as far as I'm concerned was a classic example of the mother repeating like a parrot, benign "Don't do that" with no follow up. No real discipline.

Regards,

Mate i have two boys 14 & 12 (almost 13) and we have our fair share of trials etc.

I tend to agree with ashore. Most of the trouble is that the parents are not able or not willing to do the right things by their kids.

Our job is to raise adults, not kids. We're not here to be their best mates (although I would love that opportunity), we are here to make them into the men & women they need to be.

That means they get taught about things like respect, honesty, courtesy and if people don't like that well tell them not to worry and to surround themselves with people they enjoy being with and that dont put them down etc.

Dude, the mothers group is good for your wife if it brings something of true value for your wife if it doesn't she could find a some "new" friends in a different more rewarding environment.

Finally, like Ashores motto, mine is "Don't mess with me or mine". Those kids would've been kicked out and their parents called straight away to get them to pick them up. Remember, "Lifes too short to eat bad food" (and associate wit poorly mannered people) and if the parents don't like it tough titties, who is more important, those ratbags or your daughter ?

Oh yes and of course Meerkats have a pretty strong family ethic too.
:D

AndyMac,

we are constantly being made to feel it is wrong to complain about poor treatment by others.

I will not tolerate bullys or poor behaviour, if it's a quite word with the child or parents don't work then something like what you did can make a difference, it highlights to everyone what is going on and may shock the parents into stopping the behaviour.

We have an obligation to prevent our kids from being subjected to negative things, this varies from secondhand smoke to assault.

One great thing that came out of this is that your daughter saw you come to her rescue and that my friend will stay with her (and you) for life. After all what are daddies for ?:)

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Originally Posted by Andy Mac

Well, one time too many and this particular night I let out a very loud & exasperated "NO (insert name)! Stop pulling her hair!"

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Sad isn’t it? Because the moment you did that you became the bad guy. The parents would say something like “They are just kids”.

I hate (and stop) going out to dinner with the mothers group. I know the boys will run wild, scream and annoy everyone in the restaurant (and the owner). The fathers would say nothing and it really irritates me.:mad:

The mothers had a bit of discussion yesterday. 2 mothers agreed that what happened was really bad. The mother of boys wasn't there and the mother of the brothers apologized.

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Originally Posted by Andy Mac

The long term outcome is that from that moment these parents (once our best mates:( ) never felt comfortable around us, because of my possible reaction to the boy's wayward behaviour

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Sounds like no loss - if friends don't have the same value system as you do, hard to remain friends. And the well being of family is much more important.

G'day Wongo,

It comes down to disciplne. Depending on what they've done determines the discipline hannded down IMHO. When I was a kid and did something naughty it would range from no TV for a week or my dad making me get the strap from off the fridge and giving it to him so he could give me a belt, sure it hurt.

But that's the trouble these days, I'd say at least 1/2 the parents nowadays think discipling your kid is a no go. I even know one family who let their kids do what they want and think that they'll learn from their mistakes. :confused: :eek: with no discipline whatsoever. Like hell they will, most spoilt brats I know off. :mad:

I'm not saying a smack is the only answer, but discipline comes in many forms. And teaching respect of others also plays into it.

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Originally Posted by Waldo

G'day Wongo,

. When I was a kid and did something naughty it would range from no TV for a week or my dad making me get the strap from off the fridge and giving it to him so he could give me a belt, sure it hurt.

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Hi Waldo,
I'm glade those days are behind us frankly, as a kid I used to cop the belt, shoes, wooden spoons, jug cords... I could never sanction an adult getting stuck into a child like our parents generation did.:(

Mind you I'm also a firm believer in a good smack when needed, it doesnt have to cause pain just hurt the pride.

A mate of mine gave me some advice when my first one was due on the scene he said "Never hit your kid in anger" I thought that sounded like very good advice.
After a couple of years I realised what a crock that was;)

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Originally Posted by Bleedin Thumb

No Wongo,
Thats not typical boys thats just bad behaviour. You cant always blame the parents some kids are just shyts but mostly I recon the blame should be directed to parental discipline.
I've got a 6 and a 4 1/2 yr old boys, great kids, polite and generally well behaved.
Thats because they know what sort of behavior I expect from them and they like pleasing me and other adults.:)
They also know the consequences of bad behaviour.:eek:
They are boys tho so you expect them to push the envelope from time to time and they do get carried away but they know not to damage other peoples thing etc.
Sounds like the three you had over or at least the ring leader needed a boot up the backside.:mad:

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Amen. Too many 'enlightened' parents nowadays simply won't discipline their kids. I think all kids need to know the line in the sand. Society imposes these limits on everyone and if its not reinforced in the home at an early age they'll either end up getting the #### kicked out of them or they'll end up in jail.

Commiserations Wongo, and stick to your guns. Make it clear they're not welcome till the behaviour improves. In future don't forget also that these little pr1cks have a habit of 'falling down' sometimes. :D

I was reading some article in "The Age" a few months ago that said that the majority of bad kids (boys & girls) were from single parent families. It must be hard for not only the kids but the parent. One minute you are the kid's best friend and the next you have to discipline them for being naughty.

There was a segment on either TT or ACA about girls as young as 14 having babies to qualify for the baby bonus from the government. unfortunately it appeared that most of them were only having the kid(s) to help pay of debts. One girl who at 17 already has 3 kids (from different fathers) wants to have many more because she doesn't want to work and by having more kids the more benefit(s) she will receive. As she says there are enough rich people in this country who can afford to pay the tax which will feed down to her & the kids - what an attitude to have:(.