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So now this is MY fault too?? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzler
Get real dazzles!
Why is no-one able to take responsiblity for their own actions?
Taking the first dose of any drug, is taking a deliberate chance. It's a deliberate act, and the consequences are known or should be known. No excuses.
"I'm sorry your honour I was so drunk/stoned that I can't be responsible for my actions."
Crap.
Now tell me why I'm wrong!
P
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I didn't see the program but perhaps it could be scary if you feel you have no control or influence on the spread and harm of these drugs.
Convince the politicians that the effect of these drugs may adversely affect the economy and share prices and they will act swiftly and pour our money into closing down these evil operations.
Subtle Mr Midge, subtle, but I do agree:)Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
I even worked with some social workers once who were known to quote 'I'm glad I used drugs when I was a student, now I can relate to the addicts'
What absolute crap.
Nah Scooter, I think you have got me wrong... I totally agree that scary is the correct word - I agree with you. (thats if you haven't changed your mind :p )
Scary because its cheap enough for the school yard + it gets a person addicted very quickly.
A young person only has to stuff up once and they might be an addict for years to come.
That scares me.
Hi Midge,
I once agreed with you. However after spending a large part of 18 years locking up said druggies the disturbing part is the familiar history that most, not all, seem to have.
Most have had seriously screwed up family lives where the decision whether or not to use the drug is less import than the decision to please the person or group that they are trying to be a part of.
This is going to sound like I'm soft. I am far from it. But watching druggies have druggie kids and all they know is drugs then the decision to be a druggie is not a simple one.
All children, and most druggies start out at a young age, dont possess the ability to see what the consequences of thier actions will be. Just as young males dont realise that driving like an idiot may kill them.
My view over the years has changed. Most drug addicts are addicted because of factors they had little control over. Adults like ourselves struggle to understand that (IMO) because we have the life experience and stength that if a 30something paedophile offered us friendship we would smash them in the face, not be befriended by them.
I use this analagy with woodworkers to show the pull of drugs;
Think of the nicest tablesaw you could ever imagine - sliding table, electronic rise and fall, soft start etc etc....now to get it all you need to do is
a) burgle your neighbour
b) rip off your family
c) have s$# relations with filth
Would you do it for that nice TS?
Every day for that nice TS?
I wouldnt, I would suggest most wouldnt. But kids do it because of a stupid decision that most dont have the ability to stop.
They are victims, its not PC on this forum to say that, but thats what they are. I am of the view that if you are locked up for an offence and drugs are the cause, then a mandatory, prison type of rehab is what is needed.
cheers
dazzler
I once agreed with you! (and still do sort of, specially at least on the last bit above), but think that "PC" and "this forum" is a rather oxymorinic juxtaposition!Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzler
All issues relating to the use of drugs, whether they be legal or otherwise are somewhat vexed.
The trouble is, that for the press, covering the problem is a lot easier and more interesting than proposing a solution, or for that matter contributing to it. I don't suspect that too many potential users will have accidentally tuned in to SBS that night, nor to the 4Corners reposrt either.
Cheers,
P
Not quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentC
I take pseudo e sometimes. I can actually say that, since I buy it here and it's only been on the market here since last year that I know of. Before that, strictly verboten.
Anyways, you might be interested that I have never had 'the flu' that I can remember, and excusing the last few years getting adapted to the colds here, have not had a cold of any significance for about 15 years.
I do take pseudo e occasionally (like twice a year) to make things tolerable when the allegies hit. It's nice to get a few hours rest from dumping litres of goo out of your nose...
That's all I need(ed) it for, and with any luck, I won't need it again unless allergies give me trouble again. Been pretty good so far.
If you can do something to it to make it unable to be made into something else, then I would suspect that those who do such kitchen chemistry will resort to some other way of getting it.
Just the outright banning of something isn't going to stop a suitably driven person with sufficient smarts to find a way to circumvent the regulations/laws.
I wouldn't be overly upset if the price was cranked up through the roof, but they would just steal the stuff then. ;)
How to solve the problem?
I dunno, say a year of cold turkey? You take the stuff, you go into a 6x4 cell all by yourself. It will either cure the addiction or kill the druggie. Either way they will kick the habit. :D :p :o
Like I said, it's not saving lives, just making miserable people feel better. ;)Quote:
to make things tolerable when the allegies hit
If it isn't manufactured, it can't be stolen or bought. I'd imagine making it from scratch would be a lot harder and further beyond the ordinary means of a kitchen chemist than making methamphetamine from flu tablets. One of the points being made here is how easy and cheap it is to make it. Do we need psuedo e at all? Not really. So let's stop making it and suddenly methamphetamine either disappears altogether or leaps up in price. Simple.Quote:
Just the outright banning of something isn't going to stop a suitably driven person with sufficient smarts to find a way to circumvent the regulations/laws.
http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/speedy_drugs/ice.html
Google can be a frightening machine.....
Making from scratch involves some fairly complex chemistry and a lab that has a better than evens chance of blowing up.
I say make it prescription only and no more that a week worth per script.
Currently, the amount you can buy is restricted, but druggies just get the max amount from twenty different chemists with ten different people.
If you want cheap, Gamma Hydroxybutyrate or GHB is horrifically cheap. For less than the cost of a pack of cigs you can kill yourself with the shyte. If you are lucky enough to get help when your brain forgets to tell your lungs to breathe, you need someone to stand there and breath for you till you remember. Can take a couple of hours. Nurses love it.
Dan
Or did the druggies screw their families so now they are only getting from their families what they deserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzler
We orta stand all the pushers up agin a wall and give them 25 cents worth of lead. Then do it to all the druggies who don't try to kick the habit.
what if it was your kid echidna ? would you be so willing to pull the trigger ? or could someone else do it for you ?Quote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
Regarding the family background of druggies, I don't know too many addicts but the two who I do know well both came from ordinary families and both have sisters who turned out to be ordinary healthy individuals.
In one case, the addict sister fell pregnant to no-one knows who and when she gave birth the grand parents took the baby away and gave her to the other sister who has raised the girl as her own daughter. The daughter does not know that the pathetic, dried up shell of a person she thinks is her aunty is actually her mum. The mum/aunty was badly beaten by someone (she thinks a dealer) a few years ago, had a stroke and nearly died. Lost the use of one arm. The daughter is on her way to being an elite sportsperson.
The other one has two kids, one a new born. The older one stays with the grand parents half the year while the mother is off the planet. He's a very well balanced kid despite all the crap he has to put up with. He plays with our son and his grand parents (the same ones who raised the druggie) try very hard to give hgim a normal life, despite the best efforts of their daughter. Her sister is a food and beverage manager at one of the big hotels in Brisbane.
I think it's a bit of a generalisation to say that it's family background that causes the problem. It may be true in a lot of cases but there are plenty of cases of kids from seemingly good homes who do a runner and get involved with the wrong people. If you asked them why they started using, they probably couldn't tell you.
Hey echidnaQuote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
As I said I once thought like you do. Yep, druggies wreck not only their lives but their families as well and I was more than happy to treat them accordingly.
My attitude changed a lot after digging a little deeper with a number of cases that i worked on. When looking at the history of the druggie most seemed to have damaged formative years. With the massive records now kept on police systems you can now track a druggie from child to adult. Child abuse and neglect was a major factor, most were recorded as "child in need" and ran away numerous times around the 10 - 12 year age.
Most were first recorded criminally as shoplifters around 12-14 years and become frequent runaways. Runaways fall in with like kids and then spiral down. Add in a "father figure" who befriends these kids then gives them drugs in return for "favours" and the dye is set.
IMO Drug abuse is a medical problem and needs to be seen as one. If you are arrested for a property/drug offence you should be blood tested to see if you use drugs. If you do then you are committed to an institution that deals with the abuse so that we actually taking them out of the drug scene permanantly.
This is a general comment, but most druggies that i have taken the time to look at deeper seem to have this similar history. There is always an exception of course.
Drug pushers should get life in prison. Full stop.
cheers
dazzler
some links to look at:
http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/sheriff/faces_of_meth.htm#
http://www.2stopmeth.org/main.php?pg=gallery#
some scary photos: