So, why arn't passengers kicked out of planes before they crash ?

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Originally Posted by apricotripper

But thats just partly cause I'm slowly ,mentally undressing the hostess closest,,,,,which is something that one ends up doing to all the hostesses by the time you land, I think. Good sorts arn't they. Makes me wish I'd became a pilot......:o

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You obviously don't fly fly Quantas, American or BA, Apricot. Still its sort of comforting having yer Mum serve you dinner (thats dinner as a generally descriptive word for anything vaguely edible, served after 7PM)

Kiwi

You are describing potential chaos after the plane has regained the ground. A little optimistic I think. A more likely scenario is our mutual acceleration from zero to 1000 KPH or more, then back to zero, in a split second. We won't have to worry about duty free, cause it'll all come with us.

I just hope that the voice over man that does the "Ladies and Gentlemen, I MUST have your complete attention" is on board

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Contrary to what you see on the tele, apart from the odd bomb without warning or an occasional hijacker flying into the side of a building, most problems actually happen during take off & landing & there is fugall time to do anything.

PS. BTW, what happens if you did have an automated eject system that decides to offload 300 passengers at 39,000 ft. at 800KPH in the middle of the Pacific?

Am I being too negative here? :D

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The only other technical reason I can think of, is, too many entanglements self or otherwise. We used to get pushed out port and starboard at 1 second intervals with half a second between each side.

We still had blokes getting their parachutes entangled occasionally.:p

At fast speeds, you really need to force out in to the slipstream, in a stable upright position, arms and legs by side, even as slow as 120 knots, or you get a faceful of rivets, or high low twists. This requires stamina and fitness and aggression. This is why paras spend ages drilling it, to get it right even with a 50kg container strapped to a leg.

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Originally Posted by CameronPotter

Unless of course they know it verbatim... There is no point listening once you know exactly what they are going to say.

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I spend half my life flying out to offshore oil rigs in helicopters. Every 2 years I have to tavel to Perth and do a 2 day Helicopter Underwater Escape and Fire Training course. Ive done 6 of these courses over the years but I still watch the pre flight videos prior to going offshore.... complacency is one of the things that can reduce your chances of survival in an emergency situation.

The Qantas safety video is the same each time you watch it..but is your escape route the same each time you fly?

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Originally Posted by Bodgy

You are describing potential chaos after the plane has regained the ground. A little optimistic I think. A more likely scenario is our mutual acceleration from zero to 1000 KPH or more, then back to zero, in a split second. We won't have to worry about duty free, cause it'll all come with us.

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Bodgy,

Most air crashes occur during take off and landing where the aircraft is travelling alot slower than 1000km/hr. Accordingly a surprising number of air crashes involve survivors. The key factor in surviving such a crash is getting out of the plane as quickly as possible.....people who know where the exits are and how to get out of the plane quickly generally survive and those who don't.....die.

You're obviously a person who has decided there's no chance of surviving an air crash so theres no point paying attention to the pre flight safety videos. I take a different approach and choose to maximise my chances of survival in an air crash situtation by having a plan and an escape route...in fact I usually have two plans and two escape routes. Sounds paranoid but its the way Ive been trained to fly in my work.

Like I said....ignoring safety briefings looks cool....being in an emergency situation and not having a plan or escape route isn't cool.

surely looking around and actually looking for the exits, and or reading the safety card is more important than listening to the video or the trolley dolly which often is repeating something you have heard before?

Back in another lifetime I was part of a helicopter crew (Iroquois). When training with a particular unit, the Warrant Officer asked one of his trainees to repeat a procedure I had just briefed, he couldn't. The WO directed him to return to camp (on foot), then politely asked me to repeat the briefing. I did so, and he asked a question of each man in turn. Not surprisingly they had the answers.

I'd dearly love to see the hosties able to remove those who can't answer the basic safety questions. Not because I'm bloody minded, but because I don't want to have to go past, through or over them on my way to an exit.

Kiwi

You are correct, I reckon my chances of surviving the impact are next to zilch. However, I do always check where the exits are.

I wish I had the stats, I would mount an argument that goes; chances of the (first world) aircraft crashing 1,000,000 to 1. Chances of it being a survivable crash 300 to 1. Total odds against listening to the 1,223,443,725th repetition of the safety briefing being of use - astronomical.

I have a strong suspicion that these safety things are only to mitigate against damages come any event. The airlines knew about DVT issues for years and only put that stuff about getting up and walking around and exercise up once the courts started awarding damages.

Can you imagine if even 10% of a 747 passenger load actually tried to follow this advice? Chaos.

Hence my cynicism.

Incidentally, cool does not come into it.

All the discussion about pre-flight briefings ignores the fact that the hosties are only giving the briefing because legislation says they have to. Just look at their faces. Fixed, wooden smile, far away glazed look in eyes. If you interupted and asked for a point to be clarified, I wonder what they'd do?

My point is they are just blindly following procedure. A case in point:

At Alice Springs airport some years ago, I was waiting for my flight when it became aparent that an incoming F27 (Friendship, propjet of the 60's - 70's) had landing gear problems -ie one main wheel stayed partly up. They circled the tower for a while. then landed with fire crews etc along the runway. Pilot did a great job and no crash. The plane stopped ASAP and everyone disembarked through the rear stairs. Then I realised they all had no shoes on. One of the hosties appeared with garbags full of shoes. They all proceeded to put their shoes back on. Odd you may say? Then I discovered (on the news that night) that the hosties were following their laid down emergency procedures, requiring passengers to remove shoes before going down the escape slides. Makes sense? But the F27 didn't have escape slides!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

Makes sense? But the F27 didn't have escape slides!

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Maybe not Eddie, but I guarantee there is a barbie-doll on there with high heels and a knee hugging skirt. She'll move along a bit better without shoes.

Why not just get the high heels off you may ask? Because the hosties are trained across multiple aircraft and you don't want to have confusion, so standard procedures work best.

Finally, you never know when the aircraft will slide off a runway and come to rest in water, so, shoes off, it's easier to swim. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

All the discussion about pre-flight briefings ignores the fact that the hosties are only giving the briefing because legislation says they have to. Just look at their faces. Fixed, wooden smile, far away glazed look in eyes. If you interupted and asked for a point to be clarified, I wonder what they'd do?

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If you interrupted them halfway through the briefing theyd probably get p*ssed off. A normal person would wait untill the safety briefing had finished and then ask any questions.

What I'd really like to see is all Qantas passengers put into of these, turned upside down and dunked into a 6' deep pool of water. If you can't get the exit doors off and out in 20 seconds you dont get to fly.

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

What I'd really like to see is all Qantas passengers put into of these, turned upside down and dunked into a 6' deep pool of water. If you can't get the exit doors off and out in 20 seconds you dont get to fly.

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Oh come on Kiwi! Even I can see it has no rotors, so it won't fly anyhow!

Just joking mate! I did the escape training too in the Navy. Bags of fun, but glad I never had to do it for real!

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

Oh come on Kiwi! Even I can see it has no rotors, so it won't fly anyhow!

Just joking mate! I did the escape training too in the Navy. Bags of fun, but glad I never had to do it for real!

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The HUET even more fun when one of your fellow passengers decides to throw up his lunch....when that mock up cabin fills with half digested food there's an extra incentive to get that hatch off and get out of there fast!!

Classic footage on the TV news of a Russian chopper hitting the water and doing what 90% of choppers do when they land on water.....roll over. Think the pilot copped it but the passengers all survived.

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Classic footage on the TV news of a Russian chopper hitting the water and doing what 90% of choppers do when they land on water.....roll over. Think the pilot copped it but the passengers all survived.

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The pilots are trained to settle the aircraft in the water, then pull the remaining pitch to slow the rotors as much as possible. They then roll over to use the water to take the remaining rotor energy. If you are lucky the transmission won't tear free and mix in with the passengers. If you are even luckier the rotor won't behead the pilot as they thrash themselves to pieces.