Australia Day

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Originally Posted by Lappa

There are a number of articles written by Warren Mundine where he states that the majority of First Australians are quite happy with the date and don’t want it changed.

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Exactly, the Aboriginal community is a very small part of the population and the number who are offended by the date is a small proportion the Aboriginal community. If we change things based on a few people being offended then we will have to change everything all the time because someone will always be offended by almost anything.

Just wondering of those who have commented how many have spent time in Aboriginal communities, particularly remote communities and by remote I mean places that the general population normally need permits to enter? I have and have friends that have worked in these communities as Police officers, store managers, social workers and teachers. Spend a bit of time in these places and you will quickly realize that the date of Australia Day is not even in the top 1000 issues, it is however a great boat to push by the activists as this argument could go on for decades, and as long as they are busy fighting the good fight they can ignore the real problems that are just too hard to deal with.

I am pretty sure my son would be upset if they changed the date as he has always liked having a public holiday for his birthday :wink:

Cheers Andrew

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Originally Posted by AJ.

Exactly, the Aboriginal community is a very small part of the population and the number who are offended by the date is a small proportion the Aboriginal community. If we change things based on a few people being offended then we will have to change everything all the time because someone will always be offended by almost anything.- - - Updated - - -

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Neither you nor I, nor Warren Mundine, a Bundjalung man who grew up in Sydney, can really know and only a plebiscite among indigenes would settle the matter. What I do know is that blackfellas are sick and tired of being discriminated against in their own country and having whitefellas tell them what's good for them. At least we now have an indigenous Minister for Indigenous Australians. This is not just any offended minority, they have 60,000 years of occupation behind them. Even Scotty from Marketing has coupled the acknowledgement of traditional owners' country with other groups.

The Maoris have had allocated seats in the NZ parliament since 1867. They had well defended forts and were sufficiently organised and warlike to force the Treaty of Waitangi. Had our aboriginal nations been as organised, things would have been very different in this country.

mick

I grew up in an Aboriginal community. My father was the local cop. He was sent there to try and bring some reconciliation after many years of heavy handed policing which had caused a massive rift within the community. Those years were the best years of my life. Australia Day was a very sore point with the locals (can't say I blame them) not much for an indigenous fella to get excited about. I was 8 years old when we arrived. It was all a bit tense at first but within no time I had been accepted by the kids and soon after their mums and later the dads. My father had to wait a little longer for his right of passage as previous police officers thought it was their duty to uphold the "law" by whatever means they chose. To be honest, I think they were just s#*t scared. Dad was a pretty good pug and quickly set up a gym for the kids. Entry fee= must have attended school that day, or if a weekend, it had been school on Friday. Well that solved the truancy problem. A couple of the dads had had some boxing experience and my father was more than happy for them to become involved. They were great times. Everyone was treated as an equal and respect reigned supreme.
Roll forward 40 years. It was time to take my kids to see how and where I grew up. I parked the car and while the wife and kids had a feed, I headed, on foot, down the main street. In no time a paddy wagon pulled up beside me and a young cop stuck his head out the window and asked where I was going. I told him I was looking for old friends. He told me to get back in the car and get out of town as a cop had been threatened with a broken bottle the night before and they didn't want me causing any more trouble. I politely told him I was happy to take my chances. Shortly after I met up with a couple of old school mates. They told me the cop was justified in warning me off as things had very much got out of hand over the last few years and had now come to a head. They suggested we come for tea and spend the night. My wife and kids loved it. For me it was a very sad occasion and one I will never forget.
Roll forward another 10 years. I am cooling my heels in The Sydney Eye Hospital after a corneal graft operation. In comes a black fella, tosses his bag under the bed next to me and says "G'day." I say "G'day yourself Jimmy." He says, "How you know I'm Jimmy?" I said, "Cause you is." I tell him who I am and he's gobsmacked. We haven't seen each other since school. He comes and sits on the side of my bed and we "go bush" for the next half hour. The cleaner comes in mopping the floors and abuses him for leaving his bag under the bed. My bag was under my bed too but I wasn't privileged with a dressing down. Oh the joys of being a black fella.
Australia Day is for ALL Australians, be they new or old. Why on earth would you have it on a day that solicits such a varied response?

Ken

That is both a heart warming and heart wrenching tale. I am very glad you took the time to tell us.

Unfortunately prejudice is alive and well: Not everywhere, but still in sufficient places to be laden with friction. My son was very proficient with the didgeridoo and used to busk in Toowoomba, In fact he made more money per hour at that than as a mature age carpenter's apprentice. He was playing outside a pub one night and a crowd of young people had gathered just enjoying the spectacle. After a while a full blood aboriginal came along and planted himself next to Simon on the ground where he was performing. Simon was a little phased at this and offered him the didge to play.

The old aboriginal just shook his head and announced "I just listen."

Simon continued to play, but within a minute the crowd had dispersed and only Simon and the aboriginal remained.

Regards
Paul

I hope the significance of the old chap planting himself beside your son was not lost on him? That was an act of respect. Its the subtleties of the culture that make it so interesting.
Maybe if a few more Aussies took a leaf out of the old chaps book, "I just listen," we would do a whole lot better.

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Originally Posted by rustynail

I hope the significance of the old chap planting himself beside your son was not lost on him? That was an act of respect. Its the subtleties of the culture that make it so interesting.
Maybe if a few more Aussies took a leaf out of the old chaps book, "I just listen," we would do a whole lot better.

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I don't know if he understood the significance, although I believe he felt it was a mark of respect that the old guy should sit with him while he was playing their traditional instrument. I know that Simon was outraged that the white audience should move on because the aboriginal had the audacity to sit with him!

I agree, we could all listen a bit more.

Regards
paul

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I agree, we could all listen a bit more.

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In varying quantities of "a bit".... !

Elan,
I am what is best described as a non-practicing Christian. I like it that way.
You are Jewish and I'm sure that you like it that way also.
If you need extra time off from work/school in March/April and September, October and December to follow your religious beliefs, please do so as I would never interfere.
When you are told by some crazy religious group essentially that their way is the only way, you are offended just as much as I am upon hearing the same thing.
There in lies the point, do your thing, I will not interfere. Let me do my thing without interference. Don't force me to do your thing.
As a youngster I have been taught and firmly believe today that I don't have to believe, I don't have to convert but without question I must respect the other man's religion.

And the ultimate here just the other day, Jim Baker said, "If you don't support Trump, you can not be saved." Excuse me while I puke.

I'm sure that you've heard of the Bakers. Tammy Faye Baker's most famous quote, "We're down to our last $65,000." During Jim's trial.
Jim was convicted and served time for Mail and Wire fraud along with a single count of conspiracy.

If I have offended you, I apologize.

The entire point is that all these groups want to be allowed to "do their thing".

You haven't offended me, but I'm still waiting to hear what all of these people want that will somehow infringe on you and what makes you believe they want to control society, rather than simply wanting to be left alone to do their thing.

If you can't back up your assertion with something solid, I think you need to withdraw it because, to me, "they all want something", "the intent is to eventually arrive at almost full control" and "the real answer is to fit in and try to conform" all sound a lot like what Trump supporters are saying and, based on your other comments, you don't seem to identify as one.

In your terms, what we want is to welcome anyone from a special group as an equal. As in just be part of the group.

"Anyone from a special group." What does that mean? I think one of the problems confronting the average Aussie is the glaring lack of culture in our society and this in turn creates an affront when others present with theirs. Meat pies, Kangaroos and Holden cars just doesn't cut it in the global context. Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi. is an Oi anyway? The National Anthem is a dirge of which the average Aussie is only familiar with the first verse and the rest is shrouded in mystery. National Dress? Well now we are getting some where! Thongs, singlet and stubbies of course. Not that I have anything against thongs, singlets and stubbies on a hot day but again, in the global context, one must be prepared to accept a lower ranking.
To think, that on our very door step and in our time, we have one of the oldest, continuous cultures in the world and yet most average Aussies know almost nothing about it. How far have we really come in the last 200 years?

Fantastic avoidance of the question Rich, have you considered moving into politics? I won't push it any more, it's clear to me that you either can't or won't back up your initial claims with anything substantive.

Elan, Maybe a little harsh. I am sure there are those out there who are control driven. Are they the majority? Fortunately not. Well not in this Country anyway. But things can easily change. The more hostile the situation becomes the more intense the mindset becomes. It is a natural progression, we see it in so many other Countries and history smacks of it. The problem may not be unique to any one Country but the circumstances encapsulated in the problem are. We err when we jump to a generalisation of an overall theme, or dogma, be it for or against. An open mind and a sense of fair play is required by both parties in any dispute to come up with a mutually satisfying agreement.

I don't think it's at all harsh to expect some sort of supporting evidence for the claim that a whole bunch of ethnic groups a) "all want something" and b) "are intent on nearly full control".

Anyone who's going to be making accusations like that in a public space should be prepared to either put up or shut up.

Yes, I am aware that I might be taking it more personally than others because I am part of one of the named groups (and, quite frankly, we've been putting up with this kind of s*** on and off for the last 2000-ish years). I'm happy to see and potentially respond to any actual evidence or arguments, but I'm not prepared to just let something like that slide.

Elan, You seem to have missed my point entirely. I understand your point of view and I agree that many peoples have been coping s#*t for many years all round the world. But surely you can see that often the purpose of the persecution is to gain control. Or those that have tried to gain control and failed have become the persecuted. Either way, someone gets a kick in the guts. As I stated earlier, history is full of examples of intolerance. Even today we have the same old problem raising it's head with monotonous regularity in many Countries around the world. Why? Power.
You are taking Rich to task for generalising without qualification but in so doing you are guilty of the same crime. Just because you feel your cause is just, it does not mean that all others out there are of the same mind set. Agendas are as varied as the people pushing them.