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I dont like to see anyone ripped off, but if he qouted on a quantity of materials, and the job went over the quantity, then I think you have to pay.
Either that or the job gets stopped 3/4 of the way through.
I have dvd on Yoga that came free with the Age a few weeks ago.
I can send it if you want.
Might help you limber up.
Al :D
I preface this with a loud yell that I am Unqualified to give any advice on this matter!!!!!!!
If you haven’t paid anything - don't for now, always pleasantly letting him know you’re willing to pay what was agreed but only what was agreed. BUT and it's a big one ...... if you were told there was a need for more materials and agreed to that, then it could be considered a variation. Was there an estimate of the time required to do the job? How long (or much longer) did the job take and how much more material was needed? Did he do work on the job personally or just “sell it”? How did you source his name – Yellow Pages, Local Paper, Referral?
Don't get me wrong - I believe you and everyone here is right. It just isn’t a simple thing as can be seen.
We all seem to get these lessons over and over again and I for one, am a bad learner much to my wife’s displeasure.
I am about to enter a medi-bloody-ation over non-payment for work done as a designer........ the people loved absolutely everything except when the business cards arrived, they get on the phone and tell me they’re unhappy because they wanted the card to "flip" over to see the other side (hard to explain, but instead of both sides of the card being "up" they wanted one to be upside down). I tried to explain to them that this just isn’t how cards are and that while it sounds like a good idea, it isn’t......note here I am the designer not the printer, but they’re not paying for anything because of this, including any printing which is all done and paid for by yours truly - I offered to pay half the cost of the replacement cards ONCE they’ve paid all else, or simply deduct 1/2 the card cost from the final invoice - nope, not a chance - the result? I am waiting for $1600 for months and they have the benefits of my work and are using it illegally as clearly stated in copyright law ....... the moral - the law will save you.....but you'll go broke or starve using it, seeing it will cost me around a grand to pursue them.
Work something out with the guy and be clear about what your position is. Get legal advice regarding what's what and remember - while he might get some grief over his doing cash jobs, you might get some more serious grief of your own when he works out who dobbed him in (or threatened to) - after all, he knows where you live. I am not kidding, especially if he is "of that nasty type". Finally, the amount of work involved probably means permits were required - if you have them then fine - if not and he knows (he will), it may not go so well if he decides quid-pro-quo, or in effect no-quids - pro - quo.
OK enough of my bush-lawyer’ing and BS’ing for one day - I am going to finish vacuuming beofre SWMBO comes home
:D
Did he estimate off plans produced by someone else or by his own visual inspection?
We have to pay variations to a contract when we put the wrong figure in a bill of quantities. But if the contractor underestimates the cost of an item, he is told sorry, but dont make the same mistake again. (Thats a written contract though)
He needs to have a pretty good reason for underestimating. Did he have to replace existing work that was apparently good?
I would think he would need to justify his claim against his estimate. Rather than say 'oops, I used more wood than I planned, please pay me'
As a subie, i would not go to the cilent and say opps i buggered up, i have to wear it in my pocket.
As an owner if i did not agree to a variation then its not payable, agrement in writting or verbal, did he contact u to advise of the possible variation. Under most building contrcats they set out grounds for resloution of varitiosn claims. it is std for him (the suby) to provide invoices for extra materails then you pay the these plus a bit more. BUT ONLY IF U AGREED
Variations are not for making millions of dollars from poor old silly cilents as some builders think, stand up for your rights and do not pay a cent then he will come around as some money is better than no money, if it goes to court you are in the box seat.
If you do pay him the orginal contact value get him to sign a realse that stops him from any further claims. Also do not hand over cold hard cash (thats if you dont have it already under you bed) give him a cash cheque he can go to the bank himself and get it, after he signeds the realse, this way if he is a prick you can stop the cheque.
Also in NSW all building work (domestic) over $1000.00 requires a written contract to protect the home owner, with no contract the debt is not enforacable though the std court system, (it can be enforced but not under home bld act) so ring Vics dept for home builder and have a chat, they are usally most helpful.
I probably should have been clearer up front - but the guy came and took measurements. If he underestimated...well bugger it!
I actually think he has done it as a tactic. Under quote - get the job, then say "Sorry, you need to pay an extra $4K". Some will cave in and pay. Others will fight. Either way, he still comes out way in front.
And just to clarify, the only time the contractor said he required more timber was when they had the levels all wrong, and I told them it needed to come up about 15mm. They needed to double up on wall plate timber and jack up the bearers.
Having just reread the thread on bearer and joist dimensions of last week I doubt that there were either plans drawn or specifications drawn up to cover this job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingermick
Further from these questions it is not clear that you were fully aware scope and dimension of the works involved. Thus I am convinced that, notwithstanding a quote, there was no firm contract, and if there was that there was not an agreed verbal variation. As such I think you're liable for the amount claimed.
I think you will find that your contractor will know his legal rights and can, and will, pursue his claim to your detriment. Also if you complain to the ATO they will find that in this case his books will be in order and everyting properly documented :p as advised by his accountant.
Peter.
The offer of the DVD still stands.
Al :)
see a lawyer
Although we work under a very formal arrangement, we still need to justify variations. Though our scope is always clearly defined.
However, isn't a quote akin to saying "I'll sell you this for that'. There is still an implied contract. Offer, acceptance and consideration.
Talk to you local Law society. They will help you.
Call me a cynic.
I have a feeling not all the relavant info has come to light. :rolleyes:
Stop offering and send the bloody DVD Al.
If you were in queensland i would refer you to the Qld building standards association (QBSA). you must have a local equivalent. find out if this guy is registered with them cos chances are he is required to be to work on structural jobs over $1000. whether he is registered or not i would recommend getting in touch with this body and getting them to mediate, thats their job. do this before you contact a lawyer. this body should have reasonably sharp teeth, and will surely know what your rights are. thats my 2c worht anyway
Ok, your a cynicQuote:
Originally Posted by outback
All settled. $7500. The guy came around last night, signed a full release which was witnessed and I handed over payment.
I no doubt learnt a couple of things in this exercise, but I still find the tactics of the guy extremely shady to say the least.
Congratulations!!! Bet you are very relieved.
cheers
RufflyRustic
The most important lesson is to get all quotes in writing, including competitorsQuote:
Originally Posted by vGolfer
You have assumed this was a tactic on his part.
He probably made an honest error and tried to recover his losses.