Do you use the guard/splitter on your TS

I'm another "not trying to be a rebel, but...." crowd. I feel more in control without it. Having work bind on the splitter can lead to more dangerous situations than not using one. And like Rocker, I prefer to have a clear sight of what is happening before, and after the cut. If the tension release caused by the cut is resulting in a distorsion that is closing the kerf, I want to know about it, particularly before I get any resaw damage.

Case in point. I currently have 2 blackened nails, and 9 different cuts/abrasions on my hand from a monumental kickback last weekend. I was quite prepared to admit any number of broken bones in the hand - the pain was exquisite. quite a bit of claret was being wasted as well. So, before any go "ha - serves you right", it was one of those rare occasions I thought "I'll be good, and use the guard/riving knife" I didn't see what went wrong- the guard blocked my sight. What I can conclude, is the work for some reason, did get caught by the back of the blade when the cut was almost completely through, and it kicked back. Hard. The splitter did not stop it. The guard was not able to contain it. Both were apparently shoved out of the way by the force.

Once back out in the shed, after quite an extensive patch job on myself, off came the guard, and I tried again, this time with the Grr-ripper. Ah. Control.

As above, I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is better, or worse. It works for me, and I am happy that I have more control, and am safe.

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Originally Posted by Rocker

This topic can produce strong emotions. I remember getting into a heated dispute with kenmil about it about 18 months ago. I do not intend to repeat the experience. Rocker

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There is no need for a heated debate. I can understand that some people will think if you are not doing what they do then you are wrong/silly/going to hell ...... etc. We are adults and can stand to keep it civil. I posted this wondering where I fall in a vast group with different experience levels.

The replies are interesting to read and I appreciate your input without regard to your stance on the issue.

Thanks my brothers from another mother!

Scott

[QUOTE=stuart_lees] Having work bind on the splitter can lead to more dangerous situations than not using one. QUOTE]

very true, stuart. a young friend of mine worked in a sheetmetal shop where they had a triton for when they needed to cut up sheets of ply for fitting out horsefloats and campervans etc. while attepting to cut a full sheet of ply in half one day, the ply bound onto the splitter. well unfortunately he followed the wrong procedure at that point and pulled the sheet back - and the splitter with it - right into the saw!! saw-teeth were flying around the workshop like bullets, but fortunately nobody got hurt

At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I can't see how a saw with a properly installed splitter and guard could be more dangerous than one without. In the Triton example above, the splitter was either thicker than the kerf, or it was not centered on the blade. If the saw is set up properly, a sheet of ply would not touch the splitter, unless the operator was doing something strange.

As I said, I don't use mine much, but I think there would be very few ocassions where a correctly fitted guard and splitter would make it more dangerous to use a tablesaw, especially when ripping.

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Originally Posted by silentC

As I said, I don't use mine much, but I think there would be very few ocassions where a correctly fitted guard and splitter would make it more dangerous to use a tablesaw, especially when ripping.

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SilentC,

Surely the quite common situation where you want to rip a narrow strip from a workpiece that is itself narrow is one where using a guard may be more dangerous. Trying to use a push-stick when there is insufficient clearance between the guard and the fence can well be dangerous, and dispensing with the push-stick would be more dangerous still. To minimize the risk of kick-back, the push-stick should be positioned so that it is about midway between the blade and the fence. If it is much closer to the fence than it is to the blade, it may push the workpiece away from the fence and cause kick-back.

Doug,

The sheet-metal shop was asking for trouble using a triton to rip full sheets of ply. It was a false economy not to buy a proper panel-cutting saw. If that disintegrating blade had killed someone, they would have been up for far more in compo.

Rocker

I suppose it depends on how common that situation is for you. As I said, I rarely fit the guard and in the situation you describe I would use a card type push stick held against the fence and a featherboard or another push stick held flat against the table on the infeed side if I was worried about movement away from the fence.

I'm not saying there are not such situations, I am just saying that if you have a problem caused by the splitter when cutting a sheet of ply, for example, then it is most likely because the saw is not set up properly or because the operator is doing something wrong, and not because the saw is inherently more dangerous with the splitter attached.

Now, now, we said we didn't want another Kenmill debacle.
Anyhow I need to hijack th thread in a tic, but first FWIW, I don't use a guard too often. I use a splitter when ripping, particularly longer lengths.

Now the hijack, wossa card type push stick?

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Originally Posted by silentC

I suppose it depends on how common that situation is for you. As I said, I rarely fit the guard and in the situation you describe I would use a card type push stick held against the fence and a featherboard or another push stick held flat against the table on the infeed side if I was worried about movement away from the fence.

I'm not saying there are not such situations, I am just saying that if you have a problem caused by the splitter when cutting a sheet of ply, for example, then it is most likely because the saw is not set up properly or because the operator is doing something wrong, and not because the saw is inherently more dangerous with the splitter attached.

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It was a guard/splitter that caused me to sever the end of my left thumb while ripping thin material.
I did away with the guard & only use feather boards & a push stick now. It feels a lot safer not having to work AROUND a guard & splitter.

Most rippings made on a TS are for narrow stock (narrow stock is anything narrower than the width & ½ of your hand, roughly 165mm) so you can push past the blade with safety.

Since I've had my 10" saw, I haven't worked with the guard or the riving knife to which it's attached. It had to come off to cut rebates and half housings and was a pain to bolt and unbolt. Recently, (read last week) in deference to some opinions expressed in this forum and in other places to the effect that non guard use is tantamount to mass genocide, I pulled the guard out from under a pile of offcuts and fitted it, giving myself a warm fuzzy feeling and a mental pat on the head for being safe and an example to the young and impressionable (my SIL). What a mistake. I had to get my eyes almost down to table level to line up my cutting marks,getting a spray of sawdust in the eyes, my push stick jammed between the guard and the fence so the feed stopped and burnt the timber and I couldn't set the fence accurately because it was impossible to see the rule divisions against the (stationary) blade.
My politically correct resolve lasted about 2 hours before the bl00dy thing came off and was returned to the offcuts! I felt more vulnerable with it than without. I'll probably remove the guard and fit the splitter for the occasional ripping job.
Cheers
Graeme

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Originally Posted by silentC

Hardly ever fit the splitter/guard on my saw. Only when doing a lot of ripping. I fitted a splitter made from a drill bit to one of my inserts so when I want to rip, I just put that one on.

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Same sort of thing for me. except I use a piece of ply as my splitter, in my insert. Though I do like that drill bit idea better, gota say.

Don't use a guard. Use long push sticks I've made. thats it.

I'm not obsessive about doing things the "right" way, safety wise. I do things on the job that would get me in trouble with the safety inspector because it's convenient and I know the risks involved and I'm confident that I can complete the task my way with minimal risk. Just like Major Panic, Silent C and Stuart Lees when they operate without splitters or guards on their saws.

I've rarely removed safety gear on table saws though and I think one of the main reasons is that most of my work on table saws has been on sliding table panel saws with riving knives that rise and fall with the blade and have a constant height in relation to the blade. The few times that I've used an American style saw I've cursed at the splitter arrangement with those bloody anti kickback pawls that mark dressed stock. Cutting rebates etc neccesitates removal of the splitter also so I can see that one would soon get sick of it and throw the whole assembly in a corner somewhere.

On a euro saw the riving knife works properly everytime and I can't think of a situation where it would need to be removed. I would remove it if the situation required it though.

The other big safety factor is the sliding table. As it runs about 3mm from the edge of the blade and the end of the cross cut fence is about 10mm from the blade even quite narrow rips are pretty safe. For instance if I needed to rip down some really narrow pieces I would:
Fit some featehr boards to the rip fence to hold stock down (esp at the trailing edge of the blade). Fit a sacrificial packer to the crosscut fence and cut thorough it, effectively giving a "zero clearance" fence. Butt my stock against the crosscut fence and the rip fence, hold the end in place and push the table forward. As the cut is almost complete I place a push pad (as used on jointers) on the stock behind the blade and continue pushing the table forward until the stock clears the blade. You could cut stock as thin as a few mm and as long as the stroke of the table allows (up to 3.8M depending on the brand of saw).

With this type of saw the gaurd partially obscuring the view of the stock is not an issue as it can't bind on the blade if the riving knife is in place. safety gear that actually works and is not a hindrance will be used most of the time and is thus of greater use than that which is a PITA and consequently gets removed. Enough rambling for tonight. :o

Mick

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Originally Posted by Rocker

Doug,

The sheet-metal shop was asking for trouble using a triton to rip full sheets of ply. It was a false economy not to buy a proper panel-cutting saw. If that disintegrating blade had killed someone, they would have been up for far more in compo. Rocker

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Rocker thats not news to me, and obviously they werent real good aat using it either, why pull the sheet of ply back against he blade if you know what you are doing?. i posted it as an example of how fitting the safety gear might make things worse. yes, appropriate training for the lad might have avoided it completely but that notwithstanding, if the splitter wasnt fitted he would have completed teh cut without damage to equipment or potential danger to personnel

I don’t normally use it unless I am doing a lot of ripping together. I have watched many woodworking DVDs and a lot of pro don’t use it either.

Treat the tablesaw with respect and use it with common sense will do it for me. :)