Flooring problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artme

Read the printing on the box and it says what your info says. My comment still stands and I want to know if the product is really
fit for purpose.

This was not drawn to our attention before purchase and this makes me wonder about duty of disclosure.

---

not sure that there is any duty of disclosure, the environment information is on the box so presumably it has been "disclosed" to the customer.

You might have better success with fit for purpose. BUT ...
my late father was involved with several standards committees during his working years. I recall him commenting that at one time the committee dealing with domestic refrigeration proposed 35°C as the upper test limit for a fridge. The implication being that a fridge didn't need to keep the contents cool if the environmental temperature exceeded 35°C. As you will be aware, summer temperatures greater than 40°C are fairly common across much of Australia. Go figure.
There could be a similar situation here -- an obscure Australian standard has defined the "normal" temperature range within Australian houses to be 14 to 28°C.

Fellow fom Dunlop arrived this morning and spent over an hour with us. He removed several planks and measured them.
They were the size stated on the box, even though the weather was quite cold and we had some gaps throughout the
flooring.

Long and short of this is tha t the retailer had failed to bring to our attention a warning notice issued to all retailers by Dunlop
at about the time the product was released. It warns about movement in wooden flooring that can cause problems with this
product. Of particular note is particle board flooring which apparently EXPANDS in the cold!! Why this happens I know not as
I thought ice was the only thing that expanded as it got colder. On the evidence supplied by the company I have no way of
disputing any of this.

According to this rep there was a similar case with a house that had a concrete slab floor that joined a particle board floor where
the ground dropped away. Planks over the wooden floor had gaps open in them and so a couple of random planks were taken from
both areas and measured against each other. No shrinkage was evident so therefore there was movement in the particle board flooring.

The rep has spoken with our installer ( who, btw, had done the best laying job the fellow had seen ) and after talking to him, separately
to talking with us, was satisfied there was no fault with the workmanship whatsoever. He has arranged to have extra planks supplied
directly to us at no cost to us, and to have the floor layer come back and relay the floor using pressure sensitive glue. This should alleviate
most of the problem and cost us nothing.

I have no other avenue than to accept this, especially after the long time we spent going over the pros and cons and my acceptance that what
Dunlop says about floor movement is correct. I have no scientific way to dispute this. I have suggested to the rep that Dunlop place this warning
on their packaging, an idea he took seriously.

I am however, mightily peeved with the retailer who made no attempt to help us in any way. It was not until almost 3 weeks after the problem
was first brought to his attention and a couple of extra phone calls, that he finally contacted Dunlop. I am peeved that the warning sent to all
retailers by Dunlop was not brought to our attention - if it had we may not have bought the product. I am peeved that the retailer attempted
to pass the buck to the installer. The retailer did not come out to examine the problem himself - in fact he told Dunlop that the flooring was
incorrectly laid and the warranty was void. It was not up to the retailer to make that decision, especially since he had not seen the job.

I will Never set foot in that establishment again and nor will I recommend them to any other person!

from the Carter Holt Harvey Yellow tongue installation guide
Particleboard Flooring will expand and contract as sheets respond to changes in atmospheric moisture. Allowance for this movement must be made throughout the floor area by providing gaps and special joints as appropriate to accommodate sheet expansion.

from the laminex yellow tongue guide
Particleboard Flooring will expand and contract as sheets respond to changes in atmospheric moisture.Allowance for the movement must be made throughout the floor area by providing gaps and special joints as appropriate to accommodate sheet expansion ... An expansion gap of 1–2 mm per metre of room dimension (10 mm minimum) should be left around the room perimeter

For the time being, it is an outcome. Time will tell if it is a good outcome or not...if you continue to have problems, then you still have rights. Never forget that, and as I said before, be wary if they try and flash anything in your face to sign on completion of whatever they do next. You don't, and shouldn't have to sign anything, nor sign anything away...

Oh now you tell me its on particle board! As a product executive for a particle board manufacturer we always recommended a hard board underlay for such products.
I note with interest, this recommendation has been discontinued in a written format, but the sentiment remains the same. Go figure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rustynail

Oh now you tell me its on particle board! As a product executive for a particle board manufacturer we always recommended a hard board underlay for such products.
I note with interest, this recommendation has been discontinued in a written format, but the sentiment remains the same. Go figure.

---

Did not mean to mislead anyone! The particleboard is covered with hard glued vinyl planks so, does that mean the substrate is the vinyl
or the particleboard?.I t probably means little as the PB is covered and all is flat dry and clean. I very much doubt that there was any
consideration given to expansion/contraction when the place was built. An examination under the house does not show anything.

I have not, and will not sign anything as i consider the Dunlop rep was very thorough and fair with everything he said and did. I just guess that
it is a case of buyer beware, especially since the retailer failed to supply all information and this, I think, relates back to my earlier mention ofduty
of disclosure.

We mentioned the matter of Dunlop putting this information on their packaging and this was at least taken as a good point. It remains to see what will be done in future.

Hi artme,
just wondering if you're still having issues with your vinyl flooring ? We are having problems with ours too.
Can I ask what the evidence was by the supplier ?

"The only gluing done is up against the perimeter where the first row is glued to the existing floor. Sometimes a second row may be glued but this is not necessary. Every 5 metres thereafter a row may be glued. The rest of the planks are simply laid end to end."

At best, I'm a termite. So what I say may be considered the same as 'white ant tunnels'.

When thinking of expansion of a raised panel due to moisture changes:
The center centimeter or two of the end grain is glued into the rail. This forces the wood movement into the stiles.

Applying this to flooring, I would glue all end to end and allow the perimeter to float. I would glue the edges at the center of the room for about 3 cm. The edges of the flooring would be covered with molding on the wall and a ¼ round toe cap.

My thoughts are to do what you would do with wood movement and force the movement into an area where you can control the effects.

DUNNO and remember the white ant tunnels.