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Thanks ChiefTiff, the W140P is only $98 at Bunnings. You also mentioned a flexible extension. Are these readily available? Any other accessories needed to spray shellac and varnishes? Shellac is fast drying ie recoat within an hour. Do you have to clean it between coats or can that be done at the end of the day without the shellac drying out on the nozzles etc.?
Also does the shellac or varnish have to be thinned a lot to deliver the right viscosity.
When I bought mine the flexible extensions were available on the shelf at the same store but I can't say if that's the same now.
No further bits are needed for varnishes etc.
You'll find that you can recoat shellac after about 20 minutes tops; a sprayed coating is much thinner than a brushed one. I clean out the sprayer after every job.
I don't know what brand of shellac or varnish you are going to use so I can't comment on the viscosity, however I don't recall needing to thin down anything much. There are viscosity cups in the kit so it only takes a few seconds to work out.
Thanks again for your reply.
I rang Wagner again and mentioned your comments and then they spoke on other models including the fine sprayers as suitable for varnishes etc. This has become more confusing considering one of their "experts" told me that no model was suitable. I really don't want to go down the compressor path. I assume when you said that you clean the sprayer after every job you didn't mean after every spray.
I might go and visit them at their Melbourne office
Any "expert" you talk to will be an expert in sales, not application.
They will try to persuade you to buy what they consider to be the best product for your application, and they'll probably be right. The best tool for the job may not be the best tool for you however. At this time all you want is a tool that will spray shellac on some boxes; you can do this with a cheaper W140 and another $25 bucks for the flex extension. Build yourself a stand at about waist height with a revolving top with some spikes that the item can sit on and with an hour or two of practice you'll be producing very good spray finishes. The downside is that this model sprayer works best when it's pumping out lots of spray so you'll use more than you expect, but then again shellac isn't particularly expensive. With this model you will learn how to control using only your spraying technique as it more of an "all or nothing" tool, same as a spray can but with a bigger cloud.
If you go for one of their "turbine" models you'll find that it will give you the ability to adjust and control the spray pattern and will possibly work at better angles than the W140 meaning you won't need to buy the flexible extension. More than likely too it will be considerably more economical on the shellac. And will cost more. Will it give you a better finish? As a beginner... no. In a year or so if you move away from boxes and start spraying everything in your house then the ability to adjust your spray pattern to suite the application will give better results; but if you start to go down that route, well, then it's decent compressor and spray gun territory. And you can plug a nail gun into the compressor!
For me the cheaper model suits my needs. I've sprayed stain type varnish on a bookcase with good results and oil based varnishes on outdoor furniture along with straight oils. This afternoon I'm going to recoat my deck with "Interwood Ultra" decking preservative, this thread has given me the nudge to use the spray gun rather than a brush; providing that the wind buggers off!
Great advice again, Chief. I actually have setup a small table on castors which is easy to rotate with the boxes resting on painters pyramids. Similar to what you've advised. As I said I've been getting good results with a spray can. Seven thin coats then rub back with steel wool and buff with wax and they look great. Given that, I might try the Preval system first ( https://www.plastidip.net.au/preval-spray-systems ) another alternative and for only about $20 they're worth a go with little to lose. Autobarn stock them. They look like they might give similar results. I tried starting a thread about this but got no replies. I assume very few people use them. If they end up not giving a decent result or too difficult to clean and I have to replace the unit too often then I'm no better off than continuing with my aerosol method. Then I'll have a go at the Wagners. I'll still visit their office this week and talk to the "expert" advisers and see what they say. I'll report back as soon as I can.
Let us know how your Wagner gun gets on with your deck!
I've used the Arlic system that used to be sold by Carba-tec and it works great for shellac and you can buy different size needles to spray different types of finish. They are not cheap but it dose a good job, it's like a mini combined spraying system.
SB
A follow on.
I visited the Wagner office in Melbourne and had a good chat with one of the "knowledgeable" reps and he advised for varnish and shellac, one of the fine spray systems with an accessory which replaces the container with a finer nozzle called "brilliant". I might eventually go down that path but I did try the Preval system and found it very good. See link above. It sprays a thin coat and it can have runs if you're not careful but for under $20 (it was on special at Autobarn) it delivered what I was after. It was easy to clean but certainly didn't spray as evenly as an aerosol can. I used some wipe on Poly which didn't need thinning did a few coats and I was generally pleased that such a cheap product could deliver a good result.
I regularly use a Wagner airless 213 (HVLP) at work for priming & finishing Although we're a joinery and specialise primarily in doors, windows & architectural fittings I've also built the odd furniture, jewellery box and similar sundry items.Quote:
Originally Posted by barri
As a result I've poured damned near everything & anything through the wagner... shellac, jam, PolyU & render-roc (I kid you not!) to name just a few.
The main unit is pretty much bullet-proof, although we've gone through a couple of guns in the last couple of years. They are mainly plastic, after all, and after a few thou hours they start to 'dribble' around the trigger pivot. :shrug: Parts for the guns themselves can be hard to source, but a whole new gun is relatively cheap.
Enough so that we have a seperate gun for each nozzle size rather than bothering swapping the needles & nozzles around and it is nice to have a separate gun for each type of paint so one never has to bother about "did I remove all the turps from the gun after the last clean-up before loading this nice, glossy white water-based paint..." :B
With Shellac I've noticed a tendency to give a pebbled finish - probably just operator error - but a light rub between coats soon sorts that out.
I want one for my home workshop. Right after the chisel morticer, drum sander, 3-head spindle moulder and... I'd better shut up now. :doh:
I just noticed the price of the 213 is nearly $700. For that price I might as well go down the traditional compressor and gun path. I guess you get what you pay for
I too suffer from the same syndrome ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!
apples and orangesQuote:
Originally Posted by barri
one is HVLP, the other LVHP
This is a subject I take a look at every year or so in the hope of simplifying spray painting. I never seem to get beyond compressor and HVLP or LVLP conversion guns.
The problem with spraying boxes is that people look at them very closely so what is suitable for furniture is probably not OK for boxes. Also, everyones idea of a 'dead smooth finish' is different.
On the Wagner side, I own a W140P, a Wallperfect W565, a Finesprayer W560, a 450SE and at least one other (I cant remember the model). None of these would I trust anywhere near a quality handmade item. I was given most of these by a friend who was emigrating.
I haven't tried the 213, or anything more expensive then it, so I cant comment on these.
My own research into dedicated HVLP spraying units never gets far as I cant try-before-you-buy and I'm not going to outlay $600+ unless I'm sure it'll meet my needs, because I'm basically pretty sceptical about them.
So I go the compressor and gun route.
In a previous post I dealt with the issue of what size compressor you really need for spraying small items and for the occasional, unhurried use on larger items. https://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/com...ght=compressor . Don't forget to read post number 3 where there are some metrics especially relevant to spraying small items with low-end gear.
I now have 3 compressors and 7 guns which I use for spraying, but I guess if I had to start again with a unit for spaying small items like boxes I would go with the Sydney tools direct drive 2.5 hp compressor which cost me a miserly $246, the wonderful little Star SLV 400F LVLP gun ($350 ish), a cheapo 2.0mm gun for sealers (say $50). An in-line water trap and probably an in-line regulator (say $20 each). Also, a thick air hose, not the curly stuff.
I have no fear of buying a cheap compressor because I regard them as a commodity, use them hard, throw them out when they start to fail. The cost is tiny when worked out on a per-year basis, and doesn't favour the expensive ones.
cheers
Arron
Have you thought about an airbrush with a compressed air dive bottle? 'S what my first wife used to have ...
I own a Wagner (the rapid piston type) and I rarely got a really good result with it if I went to anything thinner than water based latex paint,
and spraying it on to vertical walls. Even spraying some anti-rust xylene based rust-inhibiting primer on laps of a new roof in situ was a complete
failure. Ended up using a brush for that.
For my furniture I ended up with getting a small gravity fed spray gun and using the compressor that I already had in my workshop anyway. Much, much better with
lacquer and enamel. I'm fairly sure that would go for shellac in white meths solution as well.
Another follow on ..
The Preval system is amazing for its price. I tried it on a scrap piece then on a finished prototype box
I prepared my timber as normal. Sand through the grits fro 120 to 800, vacuum between each grit and finished with a rub from a tack cloth. Filled the jar with my 1 lb cut of my own mixed shellac, 9 coats with sanding after the 4th and 7th and last with 1000 grit and then wax and buff. The result was surprisingly really good and equally as good as from before. I would defy previous customers to spot the difference. The unit was easy to clean and reusable. For the amount I do this is the most efficient and effective way to go. For $19 there isn't at lot to loose.
I really do appreciate and understand the advice from many forumites wanting me to buy a compressor and the guns and accessories is way overkill for my hobby and was a last resort. As stated in my original post, woodworkers have a love hate relationship with Wagner guns. There are those that are very comfortable with using them for shellac and it is those that still keep my interest.
The Preval system was a pleasant surprise and I will persevere.