adhesive for timber flooring on yellowtongue

This is the page out of the text books concerning the laying of strip flooring that is given to students of Carpentry & Joinery at TAFE. I’m sorry but I can’t find that text were it states I should lay yellow tongue flooring under the strip flooring and then glue them together?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>


If people are happy with how they have completed their strip flooring other than what’s on that page, I’m pleased for you, but I believe you have been given bad advise.<o:p></o:p>

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Originally Posted by elphingirl

We laid 13mm hardwood overlay flooring over yellow tongue (with trowel applied Bostik Ultraset), all over a new hardwood subfloor.

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The important word here is "overlay." :) At 13mm thick I wouldn't trust it as a standalone floor, unless you almost doubled the number of joists. It sounds like your floor was designed for a sub-floor, it's when people lay "stand-alone" floorboards over a sub-floor that I can't help but wonder about the integrity and ability of their advisors...

Even with your boards I'm not sure about using glue; that's what makes some of my repair jobs a misery and it's just so... unnecessary!

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Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

The important word here is "overlay." :) At 13mm thick I wouldn't trust it as a standalone floor, unless you almost doubled the number of joists. It sounds like your floor was designed for a sub-floor, it's when people lay "stand-alone" floorboards over a sub-floor that I can't help but wonder about the integrity and ability of their advisors...

Even with your boards I'm not sure about using glue; that's what makes some of my repair jobs a misery and it's just so... unnecessary!

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My friend I did read that bit about overlay,( 15mil H/W boards can span 450 centers, even if most people here don't believe so) but I also read the bit were she stated that a new subfloor was installed, Why would you pay for a new subfloor and then do the wrong thing from there? If I built a new subfloor frame I would build it to take the borads I'm intending to install, in the correct manner!

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Originally Posted by Auspiciousdna

Can I ask why so many people lay flooring under flooring? Did your supplier say it was better or something?

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I put the yellow tongue down first so that we could continue the renos without having to worry so much about damaging the expensive bluegum which will be the final floor surface.

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Originally Posted by Moo73

I put the yellow tongue down first so that we could continue the renos without having to worry so much about damaging the expensive bluegum which will be the final floor surface.

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Maybe the flooring should have been the last job on the list? It would of saved you $$$$

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Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

The important word here is "overlay." :) At 13mm thick I wouldn't trust it as a standalone floor, unless you almost doubled the number of joists. It sounds like your floor was designed for a sub-floor, it's when people lay "stand-alone" floorboards over a sub-floor that I can't help but wonder about the integrity and ability of their advisors...

Even with your boards I'm not sure about using glue; that's what makes some of my repair jobs a misery and it's just so... unnecessary!

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I believe ther reason overlay flooring was exists was for use in concrete slab applications. But it has another bonus, which is the reduction in use of Australian hardwood timbers. The yellow tongue is - IMHO - overall a more sustainable resource than hardwood. Hence the reason we chose to use a small amount of a product we love but is being removed from old growth forests. (We did choose a timber that is currently in plantation for future harvesting).

Repair might be harded - but hopefully the way we have chosen to do it will make the floor more resistant to damage from the first. When neeing to be removed, it will be easy to just strip the whole lot - yellow tongue and all off the joists.

It is a cost saving as the following trades can work faster and the project is not held up, it is also a saftey issue as working on joists is a no no these days (over 1.2mt up)

Cost of particle board is bugger all $35.00 per sheet, and also does reduce "spring"

Installing of T&G hwd flooring is quicker and easyer.

Auspiciousdna using these "new" flexible poly based as adheisves are the way to go and are backed by manfactures warranity, i think the tafe book may be out of date, plus when was the last time you saw a floor clamp being used on site. (nb we still use clamps for 8in and wider boards)

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Originally Posted by elphingirl

But it has another bonus, which is the reduction in use of Australian hardwood timbers. The yellow tongue is - IMHO - overall a more sustainable resource than hardwood. Hence the reason we chose to use a small amount of a product we love but is being removed from old growth forests. (We did choose a timber that is currently in plantation for future harvesting).

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you just know I gotta respond to this statement :o .
Can someone give me a more environmentally friendly, less CO2 releasing during manufacturing, as well continually renewing itself building material than the modern Aussie hardwoods :D .
Popular opinion does not necessarily make something the truth :eek: .
Monocultures (as in many of our plantations) are not particularly popular with the fauna or with many informed thinking conservationists :confused: .

Sorry but I put up with half baked ideologies about the forests on a daily basis. :(

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reduction in use of Australian hardwood timbers. The yellow tongue

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Dont know how using partcile board is saving tress as in this thread every one is covering the particle board with HWD flooring.

Use of our trees is a hard issue but by managing the resource and getting max value out of logs is the way to go, NO WOOD CHIPs from our great HWD forests of Nth NSW and Sth QLD, sure chip the waste product but dont do a Tasy stlye job.

I have attended rallys against changes propossed by NSW govt to reduce logging but all these are doing are closing down small operators and leaving the door open for Boral whos has been able to get log supply agreements from the govt.

Also beware when buying "recycled" hardwood flooring i know of major firms in both NSW, VIC and QLD who sell new timber as recylced, now that is a joke.....

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

you just know I gotta respond to this statement :o .
Can someone give me a more environmentally friendly, less CO2 releasing during manufacturing, as well continually renewing itself building material than the modern Aussie hardwoods :D .
Popular opinion does not necessarily make something the truth :eek: .
Monocultures (as in many of our plantations) are not particularly popular with the fauna or with many informed thinking conservationists :confused: .

Sorry but I put up with half baked ideologies about the forests on a daily basis. :(

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I have to agree . I am surrounded by plantations and used to think them the devils curse for removing good farm land . Then , after a few years , it struck me . Grassland just produces a small amount of O and recycles a bit of Co2 . Trees on the otherhand do much more although I dont like the use of 1080 to protect them . Killed 2 of my dogs . Labradors , very friendly and wouldn't hurt a fly . Still upsets me .

Gaza my friend, you too are allowed your opinion as am I, in fact I welcome it in this forum for all to judge the course they may choose to take if need so! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

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If the owner needed a surface to live on, I would supply a temporary floor like formwork of a material that could be reused later on to fit out a work shed or what ever. And if you must know I’ve been at two sites this pass year where this method of fixing was used, thank you! <o:p></o:p>

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I believe the method you’re championing is unnecessary and if you don’t have it, there be no need for a manufactures warranty, the manufacture that would be making money if you used this method. Beside the fact if you needed to get to the sub floor, it would easier to take up a few boards and replaced them, than repairing the glued surface! <o:p></o:p>

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The retail price catalogue I have for Y/T sheet floor from Mr Ply$60-19mil and $85 for 22mil a sheet, says 3.6 x .9 over an average house plus glue and laying has to be around a $3000 give or take how thick you go and then comes the cost of the surface you see?<o:p></o:p>

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<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Gaza</st1:place></st1:City> if you’re happy with the Y/T method I couldn’t be happier for you, but it’s not for me, this is just my opinion you don’t have to like it or agree!<o:p></o:p>

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Originally Posted by Auspiciousdna

Gaza my friend, you too are allowed your opinion as am I, in fact I welcome it in this forum for all to judge the course they may choose to take if need so!

Relax, i agree the whole idea is to have our own opion, i am just trying to let people know what new developments have occuried in the timber floor industry.
<O:p</O:p
If the owner needed a surface to live on, I would supply a temporary floor like formwork of a material that could be reused later on to fit out a work shed or what ever. And if you must know I’ve been at two sites this pass year where this method of fixing was used, thank you!

There is nothing wrong with this but just make sure the sheets are nailed down.

<O:p</O:pI believe the method you’re championing is unnecessary and if you don’t have it, there be no need for a manufactures warranty, the manufacture that would be making money if you used this method. Beside the fact if you needed to get to the sub floor, it would easier to take up a few boards and replaced them, than repairing the glued surface!

You should not have to replace a floor once its down but is possible with the glued ones, just lots of time to get it off.

<O:p</O:pThe retail price catalogue I have for Y/T sheet floor from Mr Ply$60-19mil and $85 for 22mil a sheet, says 3.6 x .9 over an average house plus glue and laying has to be around a $3000 give or take how thick you go and then comes the cost of the surface you see?

Bunnings has if for $36.00 inlcd GSt, most timber yards are under $40.00

<O:p</O:p if you’re happy with the Y/T method I couldn’t be happier for you, but it’s not for me, this is just my opinion you don’t have to like it or agree!<O:p</O:p

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I prefer to use T&G plywood but most this cost is extra over and above what is required. We use plywood to avoid the issues of the edges cupping.

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Originally Posted by E. maculata

you just know I gotta respond to this statement :o .
Can someone give me a more environmentally friendly, less CO2 releasing during manufacturing, as well continually renewing itself building material than the modern Aussie hardwoods :D .
Popular opinion does not necessarily make something the truth :eek: .
Monocultures (as in many of our plantations) are not particularly popular with the fauna or with many informed thinking conservationists :confused: .

Sorry but I put up with half baked ideologies about the forests on a daily basis. :(

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E.maculata,

I absolutely agree - my opinion IS a bit half baked.

It is only my opinion based on the research that one person can do, and my own analysis of what I found coloured with my own experiences and values. That doesn't mean it doesn't have any relevance - at least I have back my opinion with a choice of where to spend my $$.

Yes, using hardwoods is very low in embodied energy - but they are a finite resource. We are going to run out at some point.

Not that I want to start an environmental debate (please don't people - not on this thread at least) - I am simply saying that it's a complex issue, and I am entitled to explain why I made a choice without being criticised for having a 'half baked ideology'.

Justine

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Originally Posted by elphingirl

E.maculata,



Yes, using hardwoods is very low in embodied energy - but they are a finite resource. We are going to run out at some point.


Justine

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Hi Justine ,

It would be hard to imagine running out of hardwoods if you see all the gum plantations here in Tassie . Sad fact is though that most are used for woodchips to send to Japan for them to make paper for us to buy back from them . We sell the woodchips at about $20/tonne ( less I think ) and buy back reams and reams of paper at grossly inflated prices . Makes sense does it ? One of the saddest sights I saw was a wood chip pile on Burnie wharf that was without any attempt at exagerating , 10 stories high , of RED MYRTLE . It had to be seen to be believed .

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Originally Posted by Auspiciousdna

Maybe the flooring should have been the last job on the list? It would of saved you $$$$

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Nah, pulled the floor out in April - found cracks in foundations and had to re-pin that section. That delayed the internal finishing, so the yellow tongue got us through the winter in Yass (near Canberra) and at this stage, its looking like the bluegum won't be down until after Christmas - this way we can at least use the room.
:o