renovate or rebuild

Silent has raised a whole new issue. The magic figure for owner/builders re warranty insurance is 6 1/2 years.

The usual procedure is to obtain a detailed report on the dwelling and then submit the peport plus details of any building permits and the relevant inspections to the insurance company. The insurance company will then decide how much premium you will need to pay. Not cheap!!!

If you are replacing damaged/old materials with new equivalent materials the work is considered as repairs. No building permit required and no warranty insurance
The notable exception is the re-stumping. This definitely requires a building permit.

Altering the structure in area or height (eg adding on a room) is not considered as repairs. Usually, demolishing a portion of the house and then re-building it is treated in the same way.

Talk to the building surveyor at your local council. His advice could save you grief further down the track.
Also talk to a planner at the council. There is a possibility that external alterations may also trigger the need for a planning permit. Especially going 2 storey.

As I said earlier, "It is really quite simple." :D :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackiew

Only one of the rooms has plaster ( rotten ), the others have butt jointed masonite cladding.

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Sounds like the same dick used to own my Qld place.
Id look at it this way: you obviously bought the place because it was at a good price resulting from an inherently huge potential for improvement. Why waste that potential? Dont forget that the $1400/metre squared building cost also includes the 40% head contractor markup per metre squared on the already marked up (ie: over the cost of materials) subcontractor cost that youll save if you do it yourself. If youre basically happy with the fact that its weatherboard not masonry and are ok about the basic layout and the framing is in sound condition then why knock it over?
Youve basically got a blank canvas to work on and if youve got nothing else youd rather be doing theres no reason why you shouldnt do it yourself - if anyone else can do it so can you - especially repair work. Put the period details in yourself. The bungalows (that I lived in down there) interior detail was just dark stained architraves/skirting (very simple lambs tongue mouldings) and glued cast plaster on the ceilings. Plaster cornice is around $4.00 per metre. Weatherboards cost 3.5 bucks a metre! Thats nothing! Buy some old cedar doors / fireplace surrounds etc from a wrecker whos just taken apart someone elses old house for a couple of grand and is now selling off all the pieces not so cheaply. Buy reproduction carpets and tiles (ie:authentic period styles).
Youre also going to need a ute. Might I suggest a late 70s vintage F100. For 8 grand youll get a ute thats probably been sort of looked after with a 351 and a truck size steel bullbar that would be perfect for driving around the eastern suburbs in. Get power steering though unless you want to develop arms the size of a truck drivers.
Just plan what youve got to do and resolve the details (ie:do a scale drawing) before you start. You might want to do some quantity surveying too so you know the total cost. Youd want to go about doing extensions/structural changes by the book however.
Whatever you do dont sell it within seven years to SilentC.
But if you prefer new brick Georgian Rescode houses and youve got the potential for a huge mortgage then I guess it would be best to start from scratch.
Just trying to offer some encouragement.

The capedcrusader used the "R" word. :mad:

Seldom have the legislators managed such a thorough and unmitigated stuffup as Rescode.

There's enough material here for a whole new post, but I'm not sure I want my blood pressure that high.

Jackiew, you may find that if you knocked your house down and then tried to rebuild it identical to the original it may not be permitted!!! Absurd, but unfortunately true.

As I said earlier, talk to your local building surveyor and planner during the long process of assessing your options.

Forget renovating a house like the one you describe, it is not worth the hassle. You will spend heaps of money, lots of time, and end up with a house that will still be worth the price of the land. When you sell the new owner will then demolish and build new, and he will make the money.

If you like to try your hand at renovating buy an inner city town house with a original and definite stile and give that a go.

Building versus renovating must be a cold accountant decision unless you have money to burn and dont mind losing 50k or more and 2 years of your life. And don't forget that building "insurance" is an oximoron. Such insurance is not to cover you, it is in fact insurance for the buyer. If somthing goes wrong or it is percieved by the insurance company to be your fault, they will pay the buyer no questions asked and then chase you to coff up the money. Nothing protects you, the builder, and they will only give you insurance if you have a property as collateral.

In today's depressed Re market it is worth to chase for a bargain rather than going into building. If you have questions about properties try this forum http://www.somersoft.com/forums/index.php?
It is full of property investors who will volonteer expert advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc

You will spend heaps of money, lots of time, and end up with a house that will still be worth the price of the land

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Worth land value to you maybe Marc.
The Melbourne market might be a bit different to the Sydney market but Im not an expert.

Everyone makes excellent points

except the original poster - are you still out there!?????

:D

I would like to see some pics of the home - my 120yr old Victorian has butt joined masonite in the front rooms and it is invisible - only discovered what it was when I drilled through it.

We need more info!

Original posters house is in a predominately California Bungalow area, if I am on the right side of Maroondah Hwy (Whitehorse Rd).
To renovate could be more fiscally attractive in the future than rebuilding.
Our place is in the sticks and I don't care but I like the brickwork and bugger the expense.
Horses for courses.

thanks for all the responses guys, its nice to see that your comments have echoed the deliberations that i've been making for the past few months as I've oscillated pendulum like between the two options.

I had an archicentre architect do a "potential design" for me about 6 months after moving in. The architect incorporated the things that I'd requested but he

a) ignored the fact that I didn't really want to lose too much of my garden
b) ignored the slope of the land - the proposed extension would have had a floor level about 4 ft above the top of the fences between me and next door.
c) located the laundry so that I would have needed to take sandwiches on my trip to get the washing out to the line
d) put the requested water tanks in a location that would have meant either the tanks would be tiny or I'd need a ladder to climb over them with washing.
e) wouldn't look up in the attic to assess whether going up was an option.

So I have a nice pretty coloured plan to show people if I ever have to sell the place unrenovated but I probably wouldn't go with his design. Of course if he'd been able to design me a tardis ( small on the outside - huge on the inside I still probably wouldn't have been satisfied :) ).

I like being in a location where I can walk to work ( I don't really gloat about my lunches in my garden to my colleagues who have long commutes :D ), driving into the city in the evening isn't a big drama etc etc so I'm not looking to make a profit and move on quickly. I suspect that I could ( as they did along the road ) make more money that I spent if I renovated but I also suspect as others have suggested that with a significant amount of asbestos around the place and a strong probability of nasties hidden under the masonite that I might be letting myself in for more than I bargained for if I renovate as well as having my room sizes dictated by the existing structure of the home ( the approach taken by the architect ) to minimize costs.

I console myself with the thought that I'm extremely fortunate to have a house to worry about.

thanks for responding!

Your dilemma of not feeling listened to by an architect is all-too common. Unfortunately the specialist field of architect-who-listens is still an emerging one in this country - things like: dealing with people's needs respectfully while imparting the designer's greater understanding, are practices many in this area don't yet get.

There are a whole bunch of reasons why, but it's 7:50 a.m. and I haven’t had coffee, so I might slip off my soapbox and hurt my ego :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

My thoughts on your thoughts (I think)

Attic access is something that enabled me to turn my home into a practical, space-efficient one. Asbestos and other nasties are irrelevant if you want to stay there - you get them out .....once.....if that's what's needed and get on with enjoying your home.

Walking to work - my wife already hates you - she had a 1hr10m commute each way as we live country and she works city....but don't fret - she hates me too who works from home when designing. (never mind that I do horrendous K's in my other role)
Seriously, walking to work is a huge consideration for many people when buying/renovating as it represents massive savings in time and money - both of which can go into the home.

I feel it’s unlikely you will over-capitalise on your home if you renovate with care and decent reality checks along the way. After all, if it’s in the location you love, and becomes the home you truly desire, then where's the downside even if you do spend a few extra dollars on quality or quirk? You will be happy.

Money is of course a huge consideration, though in context of that, someone once told me "if you pay a too much for something and it does the job, all you have lost is some money - which is certainly replaceable - if however, you become consumed (as I did) with saving money, you may never enjoy the ownership of the thing you desire as the opportunity to purchase it may disappear, or its cheaper replacement will always haunt your purchase" How's that for convoluted for a Saturday morning!

You have a slope on your land!!!??? Lucky bugger :D So much can be done to get full enjoyment from that! Without seeing it, I can’t think what, but perhaps that section underneath could be excavated and the tanks put there – invisibly. Perhaps you could have a lovely stair taking you to a downstairs living space. Or maybe it could become a living space, next to a stunning master bedroom that opens through French doors onto your back garden. Your ensuite off said bedroom could have a skylight that lets in the sun’s dappled light through a canopy of leaves from the Oak tree in the back yard (and so on….heh)….. and, space provided, could sport a nice compact laundry as well……

BTW My CallaBunga was called the Tardis by my friends, due to the dual mezzanines and attic storage space.

OK it’s REALLY time for coffee ….. I am scared to even re-read this

:D

Have fun and the offer stands to have a conversation with you about your home…..just PM me if you want to.