It's just a bloody deck

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Originally Posted by silentC

Well, that's an alternative I suppose, but what do I do if Fred the inspector drives past and sees us building it and thinks to self "hmm, I know they don't have approval for that because I would know if they did".

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I'm with Eastie on this SilentC. Its often quicker and easier, if the need arises, to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. Just an observation.

Build it well and to the regs. in your state and I doubt you'll have a problem with anyone.

As for Fred, just how small a town is Pambula Beach? It must be pretty damn small in an inspector can remember what building works are proceeding with a permit and those that are not.

You know your town better than I do, but I think you might be worrying unnecessarily.

Cheers,

You could actually build it without approval but if they do find out they can actully force you to pull it down without giving you approval after the fact. I know of several instances in the area where I live where the council has actully done this.

The joys of living in a country town where the BI ( or SOB) knows every permit approval. :eek:

Here the council is no longer the only one to issue permits, there are lots of permit shops around that also issue permits.

Also our council has not retained copies of old approved plans. I believe anything over 15 or 20 years was destroyed. Very difficult for them to argue if something is build without permit. :D

Peter.

It's horses for courses. If you are using a private building surveyor the council wouldn't know until after the fact anyway, but in a small town it's a risk. Also I agree there's the hastle of trying to find a surveyor who'll sign off after the deed is done - difficult if you don't know them and you do face the risk of taking the thing down - therefore don't use glue: use bolts so you can put it back up:D It's interesting to see that other states have tighter controls on the sale of real estate - in Victoria it's buyer beware.

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Originally Posted by Eastie

in Victoria it's buyer beware.

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Not sure about that Eastie. When I bought my house last year the seller had to declare any works done in the past 6.5 years. Which then meant I could go to the council and check the permits.

Presumably if they failed to mention something and I found out I could then sue them.

Disclosure to purchasers is one area where they have really cracked down in the uk ... if you sell a house there you have to tell the purchaser all sorts of stuff including if you've had any disputes with the neighbours, made complaints about them to the council etc. Which means if the family from hell moves in next door to you you can't just sell your house to some unsuspecting soul :-( And there have been prosecutions where people haven't disclosed things that they've known about their property.

As part of the sale process here the building inspector is authorised to get the plans held on file and give you a list of what has been approved. This turned out to be handy as we were able to use the plans when we filed for the alterations to the house, as all we were doing was modifying an existing structure we did not need to get neighbours approval for the mods.

Jackiew
In the netherlands you must give a reason why you are moving out. My sister in law went through this recently. They moved in next to the neighbours from hell, and then she got cancer. After coping a heap of abuse from the neighbours while going through chem etc they decided to move. The "reason" bad associations with the house and her sickness. The person that bought the house lasted even less time and was reselling within 6 months. There are ways around just about everything.

In NSW, owner builders have to guarantee their work for 5 years. When we sold our house in Sydney, we had to provide the new owner with warranty insurance to cover the extension that we built. The policy lapses after 5 years from the date on the council's certificate of occupancy. We still have about 2 years to go on that, so I hope it doesn't collapse. This flows on to any subsequent buyers during the 5 year period and details of the work done plus the insurance policy are attached to the contract.

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Can't argue with them about it because it's 'in the computer'.

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Send them a virus :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by silentC

we had to provide the new owner with warranty insurance to cover the extension that we built. The policy lapses after 5 years from the date on the council's certificate of occupancy.

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my understanding, at least in victoria, is that it is almost impossible for the house owner to actually claim on the insurance. You would have to be either dead or bankrupt for the new owner to claim on the insurance. So the insurers are raking in a lot of money for not a lot of effort .... and if the extension falls down then you as the builder get to pay for it apart from any bits which cost more than $12,000 which you contracted out ... then whoever you contracted it out to should have had their own warranty insurance for that bit.

I was interested to learn on a recent owner builders course in victoria that its the certificate of occupancy which determines when the insurance period starts. so if you have a project under one permit ( e.g garage and 2 extensions to different bits of the house ) and you finish most of it in one year but the 2nd extension drags on and doesn't get completed until the end of year 4 then they ignore the fact that the rest of the project has already been done for 3 years and restart the clock.

The way it is supposed to work is that the insurer attempts to contact you to make good. If they fail, the house owner makes a claim on the policy to have it fixed. The insurer then pursues you to the ends of the earth. Whether it works that way in practice or not, I don't really know.

The whole scenario is unpleasant for all involved and it's only getting worse. I asked my brother in law last night if his contractor's license would allow him to do my job, rather than me getting an owner builder permit. He doesn't know. The poor guy is totally confused about what he can and can't do. I reckon the building industry is going to be in big trouble soon because nobody wants to take on small jobs. It's not worth the stress trying to work out what you need insurance-wise etc.

Silent,

It would seem to me that you can do the course instead of you father, my wife pointed this out to me-

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Work is carried out by the owner of the dwelling, or someone with a prescribed intrest in the land.

House and Garden : March 2003 Edition

Lets say you live there? Your father is unable to do the work, bad health? To me you have a prescribed intrest in the land, not sure, ring the Sydney Building Information Center, PH: 8303 0525.
Hay its worth a telephone call.............

Scott.

I think prescribed implies some sort of legal interest, but you're right, it's worth a phone call.

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Originally Posted by Eastie

Silent,

... take some photo's of each of the the footings and if you ever get caught out and need retrospective building approval you're in with a chance

Eastie.

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The only problem is that a Building Surveyor cannot issue a building permit for building work that has already started, let alone been completed. You cannot even dig a stump hole before a building permit is issued. Consequently, you can never get an occupany permit for illegal work, even if it complies with building regulations. This is for Victoria but I cannot see NSW being too different as state laws are gradually becoming aligned.

My two cents.


I have done the owner builder course, in NSW.

I have my OHS green card.

That said I have never had a council officier on any of my constructions.

I use a my own PCA ( I think its privat certifying agent). THis means I get me DA and my CC, build to code and then get my PCA to check that is what I have done.

Council do what I tell tell them, which is stay the hell away from my house.

One final note, if the council does inspect your deck and passes the footings, the stucture and the deck and the handrails and then it falls over, they have NO legal responsibility. So why the hell pay them to check your work!!

Build it well rely on your own knowledge or that of your architect and structural engineer ( they both have prof indemnity insurance)

JR

In battling with the three different lines of BS that my council has fed me on the one job (They have all been wrong) it seems the only interest the council has is;

a) Delaying the job for 4-6 weeks (if we are lucky)
b) Charging me fees
c) Generally being unable to read an engineer certified structural drawing
d) Charging me more fees
e) Re-valuing my property and putting up my rates
f) Being unable to comply with the relavent statutory regulations such as the Local Government Act and the Dividing fence Act, and
g) did I mention trying to double charge me the extra fees they already charged me but never told me about in the first place.
h) accepting no responsibility for their past errors which I am attempting to rectify.

Local Government should be just that. Local Engineering can be done by local engineers under the direction of independent qualified engineers (with no vested interest or interference from shiny bum councillors):mad:

Our council runs a good library:) but I know an incompetent idiot when I'm talking to one.

I feel a bit better now.

Silent. See if you can get a couple of quotes and continue in a cheerful vein to try and get the council to "consider" your case in light of the quotes. This has worked for me in a similar case. You need to put it in front of them in Black & White. Phone calls to the council are about as handy as cancer of the testicles unless its all on paper in the first place.;)


Cheers