More Sorry Suggestions

Now hang on a minute. Did anyone watch the ABC news last night? What about the lady who ran a mission up there and looked after a heap of these kids? She reckons that not one of them ever wanted to be taken back. She doesn't know the circumstances under which they were brought to her, but she does know that those kids were happy and all got a good start in life. If they feel so much resentment towards her, why did they all have a reunion recently where they paid tribute to her? How come they don't wheel any of those kids out when they're talking about the stolen generations?

So do you reckon she deserves to be criticised for what she did? Why should she be expected to feel sorry when all she wanted was to give them a better life than the one they came from?

I think that just like anything in life there are two sides to every story. I think it's a bit much to suggest that people who want to listen to the less popular side and make up their own minds have a problem. After all, you have a bloke like Noel Pearson himself uncertain that an apology was a good idea and for some very good reasons, not just because he's a white apologist or is protecting his hip pocket.

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Originally Posted by Gypsy

We whites can justify anything without even trying. All we have to do now is point out how 'good' we were to rip children from the arms of loving parents and dump them into totally foreign white families, farms, work stations and how we did them sooooo much good. So there were some parents who were bad parents (whites never have these problems of course) because WE introduced them to alcahol, forced them to adopt our cultures (thats a laugh with all our problems) deny their own culture, language etc. We gave them nothing, forced everything on them. We did not arrive peacefully, we invaded and murdered, raped and stole. Today's white generation benefitted from all of this, Aboriginals still suffer. Imagine it was only in the 60s that we had a referendum to 'allow' Aboriginals become part of Australia. In the 60s! Their own country. The treatment when they returned from war! Not even allowed into pubs...and of course whites can go into pubs as when they get drunk they behave so much better!!! Whites do not beat up their wives in the streets, they go behind closed doors! I am saying sorry not for what I did but for what has been done in my name. I am truly sorry that this group of Australians were treated as second class citizens. And as for the amounts of money given, it was once said "If the govt stopped giving money to Aborigines, 10,000 whites would be on the dole line". In the 1930's New Zealand schools were teaching Maori history, culture etc. 2008 and we can say single words in Italian, Greek, Spanish etc. Not one word in any Aboriginal language I will bet. Most who would deny the Sorry would also deny any kind of respect/acknowledgement for their culture, history etc. Yet we willing give this to migrants. We know more about the cultures of migrants than we do about Aborigines. Oh yes. We can justify our actions by pointing fingers and showing how 'generous' we have been. What is the definition of 'mean spirited?'

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Turning our back on the vulnerable!


Have you read ANY of the last 200 odd posts

I live in a small remote community where at least 50% of the population is aboriginal. Very few are full bloods and to the best of local knowledge, none were ever stolen, although quite a few are of the stolen generation age.

Interestingly enough, none of the aboriginal community here think the apology is necessary, and most are quite embarrassed about the whole shebang. Strangely enough, although we have our fair share of crime, alcohol abuse, domestic violence etc. (mostly perpetrated by younger members of the community), if any of the aboriginal families here were in pain, and felt that an apology for past wrongs to their nation would help, I'd be first in line to give it. Simply because these people, here in this community, are worth it.

We work along side them, we grab their kids, dangle them upside down and tickle them - yell at the aforementioned kids when we catch them throwing rocks at passing trucks, roar at them to get to school instead of hanging out down near the river, and tut tut when one of the kids gets caught spraying graffiti or doing donuts on the school oval. For those who have been here for a long time, and have worked tirelessly out on one of the stations, brought up their kids (with varying levels of success) there is nothing but respect. We attend their funerals.

None of these people want an apology, but if they felt that it would help to heal old hurts, I'd be first in line. As I would want to help heal anyone who felt the pain of a past injustice.

I am sure that this is not an isolated event. I am pretty sure that similar (relatively) harmonious co-existence between white and aboriginal communities exists elsewhere in Australia. And if any of those aboriginals need an apology to move on, then I'm glad that the apology has been given.

But the future ...

The intervention must go on. We send multi-lateral peacekeeping forces to failed states to provide medical, economic aid, security, infrastructure development and welfare to those failed states. Why not to failed communities? Most of the adults in these communities may be beyond help. But if one child can be retrieved, can have a decent future, then ... send in the troops, the welfare people, the police, the economic aid people, the infrastructure development people. It may be a long process - look how much time we've spent in Cambodia, Timor Leste, Iraq and afghanistan. But if we can justify that money spent in support of a failed state, the rationale being that it contributes to our local security, then we have no reason not to go into failed aboriginal communities and support the future of immediate local security and young Australians.

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But if one child can be retrieved, can have a decent future, then ...

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I agree with that 100%. I've said it before, if they don't like it, stuff 'em. I don't care about the feelings of a community if it means saving a kid from the worst sort of abuse. There's too much tiptoing around as it is. And too many bad things are happening to kids that are the age of my two or younger. It's not fair.

But that's the problem with this apology business. What is it going to mean in terms of intervention? We've apologised for intervention in the past, so are we now going to ignore what's going on to honour the apology, or are we going to go right ahead and do it again?

Some communities have made it very clear they don't want the intervention - turning their backs on Nelson was part of that - so what does that mean for kids caught in bad situations?

If our politicians can't spin "intervention" into "compensation" then I'll hand in my membership to the Macchiavelli society. It needs workshopping, consultation, a few highly priced consultants and good media support, but I think it can be done.

And damn the communities who don't want intervention. There should be no such thing as a "no go" area for Australian police. Not where crimes against children are rampant. If we have to apologise again in fifty years time, then so be it.

We don't have to remove the children from their community anyway. It'd be better to set up residential care facilities with committed, trained and non-partisan aboriginal carers in place, with the full support of our welfare and law enforcement and medical authorities.

That, my friends, is where any compensation monies should be allocated. To the future, not to the damaged past.

I appreciate your candid reply Dazzler. Like many issues there are not just two simple sides where the goodies wear a white hat and the baddies wear a black hat.

I doubt if anyone would resist removing kids from an environment where the kids are threatened, not being clothed or fed appropriately etc.

I think there are two important issues that should be considered if a kid is removed from their home.

Firstly where do you move them to? I think it would be innappropriate to move a kid to an environment where the culture, language, customs and food are totally different from their home environment.

For example, if it had been deemed necessary to remove me from my family (white European with Christian background) into an environment of say Eskimos. Not only would I have looked different to the Eskimos but the food would have been different, the customs would have been different etc. My life in regards to survival would have been secure though.

Secondly, I think the home situation should be monitored with the view of returning the kids.

I think you will find that many Aboriginal kids were taken from remote areas where their people lived a more traditional life into places like Sydney with no or little chance of returning.

There is no doubt that the intention of the foster parents was genuine and the care given to these kids was tops in many cases however these kids were removed from their extended family, their language, their customs etc.

It has been suggested that this was an intentional action by the authorities for purposes of weakening the Aboriginal race in order to ovecome "The Native Black Problem". The problem being that the Aboriginals were upset and becoming violent because they were no longer able to access their traditional land.

If that is the case, then the results are consistent with that suggestion.

I believe that this is mainly what the apology was all about. Not necessarily the abuse of some kids by their foster parents, not necessarily the sadness felt by a kid being dragged away from inept drunken parents but the intentional and systematic actions by past Australian Governments to weaken the Aboriginal Race for economic reasons under the guise of helping suffering kids. For that I think that the Australian Government should be sorry.

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Originally Posted by Gypsy

In the 1930's New Zealand schools were teaching Maori history, culture etc. 2008 and we can say single words in Italian, Greek, Spanish etc. Not one word in any Aboriginal language I will bet.

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Actually my kids have learnt about aboriginal culture at school and day care and last year at the age of 4 my son went on an excursion to a predominantly aboriginal school in Kempsey.

The trip inspired him to want to know more about Aboriginals and when my wife takes the kids to the library he always chooses at least one book from the Aboriginal section of the childrens library.

This has resulted in both us learning more about Aboriginal dreamtime which most of the books are based on.

HH.

Our Primary school flies the Aboriginal flag, is visited by Elders on special occasions, and has a segment of the opening address at every assembly that acknowledges the 'original custodians'. There isn't a single Aboriginal kid in the school.

My own experience with Aboriginal kids at school was mixed. Some were just normal kids, others you avoided at all costs. They tended to hunt in packs and woe betide any white kid who happened to walk down the wrong corridor or behind the wrong building at the wrong time. I admit I was sh*t scared of them for most of my school life.

Of course there were white kids who were as bad - I have the privilege of having done part of my high schooling next to a guy who went to Sydney, hired a cab, bashed and robbed the driver, put him in the boot and then set fire to the cab and another guy who tracked down and stabbed two of his ex-girlfriends with an ice pick. But they were just run of the mill nutters.

But there was no Aboriginal education of any sort that I remember. We basically carried on as if they never existed. So it's good that the schools now include it in the curriculum.

BTW, of the three Aboriginal guys in my year, one went on to join the army and now is a family man working for a local business. The other two both went to jail within a year of leaving school. I have no idea what happened to them after that.

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Originally Posted by Incoming!

We don't have to remove the children from their community anyway. It'd be better to set up residential care facilities with committed, trained and non-partisan aboriginal carers in place, with the full support of our welfare and law enforcement and medical authorities.

That, my friends, is where any compensation monies should be allocated. To the future, not to the damaged past.

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I was thinking exactly the same thing as I read your post.

Why can't the communities be evaluated and rated. From "Imminent danger for minors" to "Community able to temporarily house removed children" or something like that, you can see I haven't thought it through but to start discussion......

If the community as a whole was rated and that was a factor in you getting your kids back as well as your own behaviour and circumstances maybe this would generate pressure within the community to sort things out, just a thought....

HH.

Would still be viewed as the white fella sticking his nose in where it's not wanted.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Would still be viewed as the white fella sticking his nose in where it's not wanted.

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Agreed but that's gonna happen whatever the solution so I reckon everyone needs to get over that. My fear is that K07 won't have the cashews to make the tough decisions now that he thinks he's the most popular white person in Australia with the Aboriginals.

HH.

The Pom's response

Maybe we should consider removing their smudge from our flag and replacing it with something relevant.

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

Maybe we should consider removing their smudge from our flag and replacing it with something relevant.

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WB I have always said that, but thats another argument....

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

I appreciate your candid reply Dazzler. Like many issues there are not just two simple sides where the goodies wear a white hat and the baddies wear a black hat.

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Cheers Wood borer,

I think this just about sums it up for me. I would love to know the full history of our country, warts and all. A truthful, researched and documented history that is not written through rose coloured glasses as it has been up to this date.

Obviously I love a debate, :rolleyes:, but will sign off now for others to continue.
(cue: clapping from the sidelines):)

For those who the apology was for I wish you all the best.

cheers

dazzler

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

The Pom's response

Maybe we should consider removing their smudge from our flag and replacing it with something relevant.

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They'd have to say sorry to the 10000 stolen English children sent to Australia after WWII as well.......

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/...ain40269.shtml