New Qld Bike Laws

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Originally Posted by rustynail

Anyone that doesnt have a licence. It aint rocket science.

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Thank you, you have confirmed what I expected. So we need to go out and get the 0.001% of adult cyclists that don't have a drivers license to sit a test and get a bike license. Yes that will solve all of your problems.

The anecdotes that you guys are throwing up are such a small, I would even say infinitesimal, proportion of cyclists, it gives clutching at straws a new meaning. Now you are worried about blind people on bikes. And you want to license kids.

This is why it is pointless getting into these debates because it goes from the sublime to the ridiculous faster than you can blink. Just accept that you have a problem with cyclists being on the road and we can all carry on with our business and stop wasting our time trying to defend something that needs no defence.

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Originally Posted by silentC

Thank you, you have confirmed what I expected. So we need to go out and get the 0.001% of adult cyclists that don't have a drivers license to sit a test and get a bike license. Yes that will solve all of your problems.

The anecdotes that you guys are throwing up are such a small, I would even say infinitesimal, proportion of cyclists, it gives clutching at straws a new meaning. Now you are worried about blind people on bikes. And you want to license kids.

This is why it is pointless getting into these debates because it goes from the sublime to the ridiculous faster than you can blink. Just accept that you have a problem with cyclists being on the road and we can all carry on with our business and stop wasting our time trying to defend something that needs no defence.

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There is nothing ridiculous about a kid getting cleaned up on a bike. There is nothing ridiculous about having concern that there are people using the roads that have never been subjected to any form of formal training prior to depositing themselves into a life and death situation.
There is nothing ridiculous about having concern that no sight test is required to ride a bike on the road.
You seem to be very dismissive of the fact our roads are the greatest killing fields in our country.
Oh and by the way, the only person who can waste your time is you. Think about it.

So now we have switched the debate from the adult cyclists who get wiped out on Bells Line of Road to kids. That's OK, given the ducking and weaving you've done throughout this thread, I can go with the flow.

So how does your licencing recommendation work with kids? Are you going to require them to be licensed to ride their bikes too? Would you let your kid ride on the road, even with a license? I wouldn't that's for sure. I must admit that as ever I'm struggling to follow your logic, but keep going, I'm sure I'll get there.

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Originally Posted by silentC

So how does your licencing recommendation work with kids? Are you going to require them to be licensed to ride their bikes too? Would you let your kid ride on the road, even with a license?

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When I was a kid I was not allowed to ride my bike on the road until I could satisfy my father that I could ride competently and understood the rules of the road. I thought that was sensible so I applied the same principal to my own kids.

Personally, I think it might not be a bad idea to remove the onus from the parents to determine when their children have a sufficient understanding of the rules. Why not take them in to the local license testing office and sit the written road rules test? Then they would not need to sit the test again when they are old enough to get their car license.

Cheers

Doug

I'm all for better education in bike safety and road rules. I reckon kids should learn them at school. I'm pretty sure we did. I distinctly remember a booklet on cycling and road rules from Primary School. Maybe if they start testing it on the NAPLAN teachers might see value in adding it to the curriculum :D

In fact, if you brought bike education into schools, you might even eventually create a population that is more accepting of cyclists than the current one.

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Originally Posted by silentC

So now we have switched the debate from the adult cyclists who get wiped out on Bells Line of Road to kids. That's OK, given the ducking and weaving you've done throughout this thread, I can go with the flow.

So how does your licencing recommendation work with kids? Are you going to require them to be licensed to ride their bikes too? Would you let your kid ride on the road, even with a license? I wouldn't that's for sure. I must admit that as ever I'm struggling to follow your logic, but keep going, I'm sure I'll get there.

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False accusation.... There has been no ducking or weaving. All statements made am happy to standby.
As Doug said, his father wouldn't let him on the road until he thought he was competent. My father, a detective, the same. That was over fifty years ago. The carnage on the roads today has increased dramatically. I will refrain from using bogus percentages as you have a propensity to do.
I have never said kids shouldnt ride bikes. But I am saying that riding on the road is dangerous. Riding on the road without knowledge of the rules is even more dangerous. There are plenty of kids riding bikes on the road. Just because you wont allow yours, doesnt mean others don't. And seeing you feel the road is a safe enough place for you, why the ban on the kids?
Anybody using the road should have knowledge of the road rules. If that's too illogical for you there's not much hope.

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There has been no ducking or weaving

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Well I don't know, we started off talking about adult cyclists riding on the road and being blown off it by coach drivers, or picked up from a huddled mess on the side of the road, then there was the bloke who ran into the back of your uncle's car. Then you tried to say that licensing cyclists would help that. Somehow we got from there to kids and blind people.

Yes it would be helpful if cyclists understood the road rules. My repeated question is how many of them don't? I know you love percentages, so I'll say I bet 99.9% of adult cyclists (the ones who dress in Lycra and get up your nose) already have a drivers license.

Round and round we go.

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Originally Posted by silentC

I know you love percentages, so I'll say I bet 99.9% of adult cyclists (the ones who dress in Lycra and get up your nose) already have a drivers license.

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Pretty safe bet. Nobody will be able to prove it either way. Its just the kind of meaningless and unsubstantiated statistics that are spewed out by those with no substantial facts to back up their opinions.

I would however suggest that a lot more than 1 in 1000 cyclists ride because they aren't allowed to drive for one reason or another. I don't have any hard statistics to back that claim up either but I know seven people who ride because they have had their licenses suspended or cannot get licenses for medical reasons. And that is seven people out of the well under 1000 cyclists who I know.

Cheers

Doug

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Pretty safe bet.

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That's all you needed to say :) I wouldn't have any idea of the real number, I just put it there for rusty's benefit. I know he likes numbers.

I don't know anyone who currently has a suspended drivers license and all but one of the cyclists I know has a drivers license too, so I must move in different circles ;)

But you are arguing around the fringes here for sure. The 'big problem' is the number of, let's call them 'sporting cyclists', on the road. Not the idiots who can't manage to count their schooners on Friday night and have to borrow their son's mountain bike for 6 months to get to work. They don't ride two abreast taking up a whole lane as if they own it. It's those MAMILs that everyone hates so much. They are the ones we started talking about. You see them on the news now every second night. They are a menace!

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Originally Posted by silentC

The 'big problem' is the number of, let's call them 'sporting cyclists', on the road. Not the idiots who can't manage to count their schooners on Friday night and have to borrow their son's mountain bike for 6 months to get to work. They don't ride two abreast taking up a whole lane as if they own it. It's those MAMILs that everyone hates so much. They are the ones we started talking about. You see them on the news now every second night. They are a menace!

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UMMMM... Isn't that basically all that everyone has been saying in this thread? And yes I think we all agree that they are a real menace.

Cheers

Doug

Exactly! Not kids or blind people or victims of DUI blitzes. The people that you are complaining about are people like me and some of my friends who choose cycling as a sport or fitness activity and as a part of that ride on the road. Most of us are licensed drivers. We know the road rules. If we break them, it is through a lack of care, not ignorance. The number of cyclists who do not know the road rules at all must be very small indeed. We all know that the same rules apply to us.

The problem is not ignorance of the road rules. Licensing will not help. The problem is a small number of people doing stupid things - both in cars and on bikes. Lack of attention is probably the major cause (I'm guessing, don't have numbers). If you want stats, about 75% of cycle-car accidents are the fault of the car driver (it was in the Australian the other day). That means that 1/4 of accidents are caused by stupid or unlucky cyclists. The number is too high, but it is not going to come down with some rubber-stamp process.

Attitudes need to change on both sides. I can't see it happening, hence my stance on the subject as expressed from the very beginning.

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Originally Posted by silentC

The people that you are complaining about are people like me and some of my friends who choose cycling as a sport or fitness activity and as a part of that ride on the road.

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Well I am not sure what you, personally have been going on about but as far as I am aware everyone else has been discussing exactly what you summarized so well here:

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Originally Posted by silentC

The 'big problem' is the number of, let's call them 'sporting cyclists', on the road. Not the idiots who can't manage to count their schooners on Friday night and have to borrow their son's mountain bike for 6 months to get to work. They don't ride two abreast taking up a whole lane as if they own it. It's those MAMILs that everyone hates so much. They are the ones we started talking about. You see them on the news now every second night. They are a menace!

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It does not seem to matter what anyone else says about cyclists, we are all wrong. Then you agree with us then turn it all around again to say we are wrong for agreeing with you.

Sorry old mate, I give up. I am not going round the loop again. I think that most cyclists are well accepted on the roads. Those who feel that there is a problem with acceptance of cyclists are probably the ones who ride like tossers and therefore get treated accordingly.

I am unsubscribing from this thread.

Love and kisses

Doug

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as far as I am aware everyone else has been discussing exactly what you summarized so well here

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You are the one who introduced kids and blind people to the argument! I was just trying to get you back on track.

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I am unsubscribing from this thread

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Oh well...

There is nothing wrong with the introduction of new subject matter. Provided the subject matter is relevant and correct. There are plenty of people using the roads who would do well with a brush up on the rules and that goes for motorists and cyclists. There are plenty of people with medical conditions that should prevent them from driving. I have eyesight issues. I'm legal to drive. I choose not to until my eyesight is rectified. I dont wish to endanger others.
You have made good argument and despite your propensity for pulling fictitious figures out of your hat, a lot of what you have said makes perfect sense, in a perfect world. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world. Our roads are deteriorating , vehicle numbers are increasing, peoples attitude toward others is deteriorating (look no further than ourselves.) Yet despite all this, you want to ride your bike. Well so did Freddie Mercury and look what happened to him:D
Like I said previously, if ever you are up this way, dont be a stranger.

I am in no way a fan of cyclists, I can't stand the lycra clad clogging our roads and endangering the lives of motorists :)

However, many of those arguing here against cyclists have done nothing to help the cause, in fact, I feel dumber for having read some of the arguments here.