Here's one for the woodies:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...nergy/11120590
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Here's one for the woodies:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...nergy/11120590
200 tonnes of sawdust PER DAY and “good clean smoke”? ........ NOoooo!
Surely he he meant to say “processing 200 tonne of timber per day” and “good clean STEAM”?
I hope he still has a job by the end of today!
I have no doubt that he will. ABC News thinks it's ok to run two news articles PER DAY on Game of Bloody Thrones. News has gone to the dogs under Craig McMurtrie.Quote:
Originally Posted by fletty
"There may be a bit of smoke. But it's good clean smoke."
Surely that is an oxymoron.
If it is a 15MW boiler that might require 60T of sawdust to fire up to that level. Only 3 1/2 hours of operation per day at max capacity. They are processing pine. 300,000 tons of sawn timber per year. I am not sure of the conversion rate from log to timber product. 75% conversion, which even for softwood would be exceptional, would yield 200T per day for 365days of the year.
My guesstimate figures may be a little out. (based on 2T of coal/MW in a high tech boiler. Figures rounded for simplicity)
So it may be possible: Not however the clean smoke.
Regards
Paul
This is nothing new for the timber industry. Mills have been burning waste for years to produce heat or steam. Its the smoke produced that becomes the problem. Better to put waste to a recycle use than send it up a chimney.
Clean smoke is "relative"
Deep in the forested northern Italian Alps where there are a number of saw mills one of my cousins is an engineer in charge of a small timber waste power plant (2 x 12 MW) where they burn wood waste including a lot of roadside trimmings and supply electrical power and hot water (for domestic use and central heating in winter) for a local ski resort and nearby small town. Before they did this they imported oil to power the generators and had no centrally distributed hot water system and the roadside trimmings and wood waste was just burned. At the height of the ski season, on still days the smoke from he oil fired generators hung around in the valleys and ski runs were tainted with a brown rind which was not too attractive and they were losing trade to other fields. When the snow melted the oil contaminated ground and ground water and streams etc.
The process started with a hard-nosed financial analysis that demonstrated that it could be done on a cheaper sustainable basis provided they did not collect teh waste from more that 35km away. Then there was a wide consultation and education of the community. Every homeowner of the two was required to contribute 2000 euros which basically paid for a heat exchanger for their house. The easiest persons to convince were the 90 year old grandmas who were keen to leave a clean legacy to their descendants. As a result the snowfields are back to where they were 40 years ago and the water pollution has been reduced. There are now a number of similar small local power stations in the alps and the latest estimate is they have reduced oil importation by more than 100,000 tons a year.
In another town not that far away two other cousins own a mega CNC carpentry business (their machine can handle 13m! x 600 mm x 600 mm inputs). Their main sellers are complete roofing timbers and mountain trail refuges but they can also make whole houses. The CNC generates a lot of waste and they burn this and the replaced roof timbers to provide the town with hot water - they make almost as money out of the hot water business as they do from the carpentry.
I posted about all this back in 2010 but unfortunately all those photos.
In burning fossil fuels there are two potentially polluting aspects. The first is visible pollutants which are the non combustible components of the fuel (ash etc.) or, in the case of poorer burning processes, the unburnt particles of the fuel that did not ignite because of poor combustion.
The second aspect, which is the main focus and contentious issue of the day, is the production of carbon dioxide. All fossil fuels do this and in similar combustion situations they can be compared. Power stations are such a similar combustion scenario. The rating is designated carbon intensity. The worst is brown coal, then black coal, then black coal in the most modern power plants (tending to be the so-called supercritical boilers), then gas fired stations (Gas turbine peaking plants) and finally gas plants with a heat recovery steam generator tacked onto the exhaust gases. Intensity varies from 1.6 at the worst of the brown coal stations (the now defunct Hazelwood plant) through to .9 for the supercritical, .8 for the straight through gas turbines and .6 for the Gas Turbines with a HRSG (Heat Recovery Steam Generator) tacked on the exhaust gases.' The is is for the CO2 emissions and does not reflect the economy of these plants. On an economic basis it is a totally different picture.
The domestic fire place and the open BBQ are at the worst end of the spectrum. I don't know where oil features in all this as nobody in industry use that fuel in this country. Wood, particularly soft wood, I think is worse than brown coal, but I don't know the value. I did find these tables below that are not carbon emissions but gives the relativities of various fuels and is German in origin.
Attachment 454950
Lignite is brown coal. Traditionally brown coal has to be dried before it can be successfully burnt and I would expect that sawdust from green milling has to be treated the same way. As high temperature kiln drying for radiata pine takes around eight hours I expect that it is not a big issue to treat the sawdust in a similar fashion prior to burning. However I have no direct knowledge of this.
Also it is interesting to note that diesel fuel is a poor performer compared to petrol and is one of the explanations as to why the Europeans, having initially embraced diesel powered vehicles with a vengeance, are moving back to petrol. Of course that is with domestic vehicles. I don't know how that will pan out with trucks where the characteristic of a diesel are more suited to heavy duty haulage. Australia is clearly behind this trend as it was to adopt diesel powered cars until very recently. You can also see from those charts why electric vehicles may be so much more efficient.
Lots of openings for discussion there I know.
:)
Regards
Paul
We visited a mill just out of Tamworth in 74 which had an old boiler from Morts Dock in use.
They had numerous small steam engines mounted under floor and the waste was moved on belting.
They were bought out by a big operate for their timber stands and the mill disappeared.
Briggsvale had a C38 bricked in and the steam winding engines off the original HMAS Sydney to peel the Coachwood for ply for the Mosquitoes built during WW2. Briggs ply no longer exists.
The mill the hippies bought in Nimbin had steam wastewood drying kilns, I used to ride dirt bikes with the previous owners son.
So nothing new here , just another sound bite like big laminated timber beam buildings being something those amazing architects are now designing, how was the opera house built?
All but one of Symonds buildings are now demolished after 60 or 70 years, google Symonds it’ll blow your mind.
H.
Mercedes Benz announced in May this year that they will cease production of all petrol and Diesel engines ( traditional combustion engines) by 2039 and produce a fleet of carbon neutral passenger vehicles. They will be electric or eFuel hybrids.
The original thrust of this thread was to describe the ridiculous series of events that one has to go through to get a better deal. The scenario was that in late 2017 I changed over from AGL to Origin Energy for electricity and gas. AGL then had their "Retention Team" contact me and offered me a much better deal, which I accepted. They then proceeded to make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing, so I called Origin (after going many levels up the management tree at AGL) and simply said that maybe I should just speak to the Retention Team at Origin, which I did.
I got a pretty good deal, with around 30% discount on usage. I had to ring a special phone number every year to revitalise these discounts (know idea why I really had to call).
Everyone is aware of the current turmoil in the prices for energy, and so Origin once more contacted me to say that I had to renew. Rang the number, left a msg, rang again some days later, left another msg, no response. So I rang Origin on their regular number and spoke to someone who said things have changed now, and the only way I can speak to Retention is if I leave Origin, which will trigger them to call me with a better offer.
So the upshot of that is that this morning I had to waste 30 minutes of my time, and Jane's time, from Energy Australia, transferring my accounts over to them. In a few days time when Origin are notified of this it will trigger their retention team to contact me, offering me some kind of discount to stay (probably about 15% I imagine).
My view of this is that it is disgraceful for one company (Origin) to quite deliberately waste the time and resources of another company (Energy Australia, or whichever supplier I have to select for the hoodwink). Now Origin would say "But they all do the same thing". This of course does not make it okay at all, when all they have to do to maintain the status quo is transfer me to their retention team to discuss what the new discounts will be. It also wasted Mohammed's time (Origin) this morning for about 20 minutes. All that has to happen to obviate this monumental waste of time for many people is to flag my file with "he knows how the game works" and then make an electronic offer of the new percentage discount with "you don't have to do anything to accept".
Any wonder why they have to keep putting up their prices. :doh:
The things you have to do to keep the bastards honest.
If anyone else is considering changing suppliers, and know they'll also have to go through this fiasco, I'd suggest that you pick one of the bigger players for the hoodwink. The smaller players have to operate on skinnier margins, and wasting their time would be more damaging to them. Apart from that, "But they all do the same thing" means I have no compunction about wasting a large corporation's time when they indulge in such behaviour.
Standard operating procedure for energy companies. Some years ago I was with AGL for electricity (we have bottled gas for cooking), but had a bit of a shop around for better deals based on our usage pattern. Red Energy came up trumps with substantially better rates, but since we had been with AGL for 10 years I called them up as a courtesy and asked whether they would match a written quote from another outfit. "Oh no, we NEVER do that, we don't offer discounts against competing offers" they said fairly rudely, so I arranged the changeover to Red Energy and sat back to await the savings. About 8 weeks after the changeover.......yes, you guessed it......AGL ring up to say they were sorry to have lost our business, and what did they have to do to get us back? I explained to the nice lady on the phone that if their business model relied on pissing customers off and letting them go elsewhere, then running around trying to get them back, maybe they might want to take a look at that?
Well that didn't take long. A missed call at lunchtime today, and then another at about 3pm. All sorted, Energy Aust told to bugger off but thanks for the dance. Gas prices only marginally higher than previously, but elec prices still through the roof (+50%), but better than the original offer (+60%), and everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
G’day Brett.
On a similar annoying issue is the payment the electrical companies give you for your “feed in solar generated electricity”.
They then sell the electricity you’ve made to at a staggering 600% profit.
I thought that the consumer helping electricity companies and the country by adding solar panels was to benefit everyone not the electricity companies bottom line.
Silly me :~, cheers Peter
PeterQuote:
Originally Posted by crowie
There is a big anomally at the moment in that the price offered for feeding into the grid form your solar panels should match the average wholesale price at least. At the moment that price would be around 28c/KWhr. However I expect many of the retail companies would say that they only buy small amounts at that price from the spot market and they have more on contract at much more advantageous prices. It remains to be seen what happens when those contracts run out.
Regards
Paul
Funny this thread should pop up.
I renewed my Gas/Elec just before the "Crisis" in mid-July (1st to be exact).
These are the screen grabs from when I renewed and last nights prices....
Attachment 515822 Attachment 515823
BAZINGA !!!!!
One thing I've noticed (with Origin) is that where I used to get whatever (variable) rates with a hefty discount of around 30%, now they have woken up to the fact that whatever the rate is, I was still getting 30% off. There is no % discount now, just "mate's rates" which they can of course change at any time they like.
The whole system is bollocks, skewed completely in the retailer's favour. A contract for 12 months guarantees the consumer absolutely jack, except that they have to pay whatever is demanded of them by the retailer.
Fer crying out bloody loud! What's the title of the thread? Something about a joke?
It's descending into farce.....
:rant2:
I transferred to them on 10th August (8 days ago), and at 11.01am on the 11th they sent me a "welcome" email about how warm and fuzzy they felt.:inlove:
The next day the Origin retention team rang me (I missed a call at around midday, and answered the one at around 2pm), so I stayed with Origin, and later in the afternoon of the 11th I was getting emails from Origin about how warm and fuzzy they felt.:inlove:
At 15.24 I got an email stating proudly "Your electricity is all sorted", so that's precisely 28hrs 23mins after Energy Australia. Origin's computer has told EA's computer to "bugger off, we still have the poor sodding bastard".:pointlaugh: :harhar:
All was well....I thought. :ohyaaa:
I must say that I did think it was a little odd that I still got emails from EA after 15.24 on the 11th. I didn't even open them, thinking "you'll find out". All part of this merry jig I have to dance.
3 days ago I heard the meter door slam down so I knew that Origin would send me a bill by the end of this week.
This morning I got a bill from Energy Australia for the last three months from...wait for it....18th May. That's 84 days before I even bloody well called them! GRRRR! Email to my contact at Origin with the reply "Nup, not our fault, you'll have to call EA". :ranting2:
So I rang EA....have a wild guess what they said. Go on....
"I'm sorry sir, but you didn't contract out so that means you accepted." Not a "fait accompli" by any means if that is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Regards
Paul
Well they haven't actually said very much yet, except "It was Origin's fault."
So here we go again with two large corporations blaming each other, with me in the middle having to berate them into submission. One of them (Origin) already has my money for the period in question, as I pay a fixed amount to them each fortnight to avoid bill shock. The other one (EA) wants me to pay it all over again....and get this...at their new current sky high rates backdated to gouge me for something they did not provide (or at least administer), compared to my old rates at Origin which only expired a few days ago (that's why I had to renew the plan). My calculations show that where EA want $545, the old Origin plan would be $362.
Last week sometime someone from EA called me from a mobile number, but I could barely hear a voice. At first I thought it was yet another scam call with nobody there, but I'm pretty sure I did here my name. Anyway, I said to call me back to fix the comms problem, but nothing happened. I returned the call which is when I found out it was EA calling me, but I have no idea what for.
Right now, as I type, I am back on the phone to EA. I have been told this will be sorted out today.
Yeah.
Right.:no:
So I have just completed a 110 minute phone call with EA, speaking to four different people (is this sounding like deja vu??).
Origin should have told me to contact EA to say I wasn't staying with them.
That makes Origin at fault.
EA should have returned my call on Monday, when their retention team called me but I couldn't hear them.
EA should have called me back yesterday as the promised they would.
EA should have made damn sure that I understood that the electricity was going to be back dated to the last meter read in May (due to a change in Legislation late last year). They said "it's in the fine print" to which "I said "Bollocks! Do you read the 10,000 words of fine print of T&C before you click I Accept for a software installation? No, I didn't think so". Especially in the circumstances of the last three months, where prices have nearly doubled, they need to make sure that people know BY TELLING THEM UPFRONT!
That makes EA at fault.
So by 95 minutes we were up to
Him: "Is there anything else I can help you with?"
Me: "No. Ahh, well, actually I suppose we better make sure that the same cockup isn't happening with the gas"
Him: "No, it's still transferring".
Me: "From? To?"
Him: "From Origin to us".
Me: "Ah fer chrissakes!" :firedevil:
:punching:
:banghead:
:arge:
:upset:
So that was when I had to speak to the fourth person.
Now I have to go back to Origin and chew them out for not advising me properly. I think a $50 credit to my account for my time (3 hours) would be appropriate. After all, even though they both screwed up, it started with Origin when they didn't tell me I had to call EA to cancel the transfer, and none of this would have happened had they done so.
If you want to try and take it further
Energy & Water Ombudsman NSW (EWON) | Service NSW
Set up a conference call and let them fight it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
This is a very confusing read.
You oughta try living it! Even after all that yesterday, there are still two twats at EA who think they'll be sending a bill, and another subsequent one who says not. :doh: All based "offshore" as near as I can tell:Quote:
Originally Posted by woodPixel
First twat:
"I can confirm that the account is still active on our end but since you prefers to stay with Origin, a final bill will be issued once the billing rights has been transferred back to them, deem necessary."
I responded:
You will NOT be issuing a final bill, or any other bill, and you will be completely cancelling the bill that was sent yesterday.
In my first email to you I said: "Please ensure that my accounts are completely cancelled and that I am not issued with any bills."
Then the second twat:
"EA has the billing rights of your electricity since 18/05/2022. This is because the account was submitted as a retrospective Change of Retailer, where the account start date will be the previous meter reading. Please contact your previous retailer for them to adjust your final bill. Once the transfer of account to Origin Energy has been completed, we will issue a final bill because this is a proof of your final usage with us."
I responded:
"Is anyone there paying attention? READ MY FILE - there will be no bill whatsoever from EA, as agreed with "Shay" this morning.
EA asked me to complete a survey, which I did this morning. I was scathing about the incompetence that has been displayed during this saga.
It's about time EA stopped continually proving this to be an exceptionally accurate assessment of their performance!"
Then, finally:
"Trust that once origin gained their rights again, we will no longer issue you any bill."
We'll see about that (which btw does NOT mean they are going to try to issue a final bill). I think I might have said earlier that I'll have to berate them into submission. Apparently it's the only thing that works. :shrug:
It occurs to me that with all this unbelievable confusion, Origin may not get a trigger to issue a bill for the period May-Aug – I will gladly accept that outcome, should it happen.
This doesn't sound like something a consumer can fix.
They are either unwilling to fix it, or cannot fix it. Probably both.
I would very clearly write up the problem with account numbers/dates/conversations(+lengths +numbers used), no hyperbole, and send it to the ombudsman.
I would also email AND send a posted copy of this, to both retailers.
The time for your involvement is over. Let the ombudsman handle this.
(I also record all of my calls. Always have. Useful for review.)
Today I received an SMS from Energy Australia reminding me I had to pay my bill by 5th Sept. This means they haven't done what they said they would about cancelling all bills. That means I have just ticked over another hour long (so far) phone call still trying to get this sorted out. I'm just typing this to deaden the pain of being berated whilst on hold, as they "look for the best solution for me, to sort this out today".
The incompetence is unbelievable.
Here's a good one. I've just received two bills from the same retailer but for two different properties, one on the Central Coast and t'other near Oberon:
Peak rate: Central Coast $0.1964/kWh Oberon $0.3839 /kWh. Nearly double.
The "resolutions team" for the retailer told me that the provider for the Central Coast is Ausgrid and for Oberon, Essential Energy. They can't control what the provider charges, sorry.
How is this possible?
mick
Presumably because it costs more to deliver energy to Oberon, especially with its sparser population compared to the Central Coast. That's probably yet another good argument for nationalising energy provision so that people in the bush get a fairer deal.
No mate, it doesn't work that way. The Service Charges are double for us in the bush but that's all about poles, wires, and distance. It shouldn't be about cost per kWh.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
When I explored an alternative plan, I could access cheaper usage charges, but the Service Charges also increased so any savings disappeared.
mick
well, MickQuote:
Originally Posted by Glider
That's just another reason why the service charge -- poles and wires -- should be regulated.
It's the same "fixed" cost to the supplier (Ausgrid or Essential Energy) no matter where you receive your power -- Central Coast or Oberon -- but by fiddling the usage charge the retailer can make the apparent cost particularly opaque.
strongly reminiscent of the old days with mobile phone pricing plans.
at one time I believe there were over 200 different plans -- the basic differences being how much you paid to access the network [Telstra, Optus, Vodaphone(?)] and how much each call would actually cost either per 30 seconds, 1 minute, or otherwise.
Curious because when you placed a call, the network access charge was essentially fixed.
Our last Electricity bill was $1110, the latest one is $350 which I pleasantly surprised at. It appears that when the sun shines, the solar system does its thing, very little heating or cooling is required and a new heat pump hot water system is installed you don't use many ergs from the grid.
FF, you have the patience of a saint...
So the yearly merry-go-round has come full circle, and my plan with Origin has now expired. As we all know, energy prices have risen substantially in recent times, so again I checked the EnergyMadeEasy site and plugged a whole bunch of figures into my spreadsheet.
This time, for my region, Amber Electricity were the best for sparks, and GloBIRD were best for gas, and over the weekend I transferred the accounts to those two. We have decided to abandon gas heating in favour of reverse cycle split aircon (2x) as much as possible, and only use gas for cooking. The forthcoming bills will give a better indication.
O'course the Origin Retention Team called me this arvo, but I couldn't talk, so we will have an "interesting" conversation tomorrow. The last 12 months of Origin Electricity has been a continuing fiasco. Apart from completely screwing it all up a year ago and costing me 50 hours of time on the phone (yes, really), they did not send a bill for 9 months! Fortunately I pay an averaged amount every fortnight so I was ahead of the eventual bill. In fact, the only reason the fabled Origin Computer eventually spat out a bill was because I asked for a refund and the puta said "FAAAARK! We can't let him have all that back" and so a bill came out.
Amber Electricity has an interesting business plan. They charge a monthly membership fee of $19 and then you only pay wholesale rates. If you are a CommBank customer you get six months free membership. So if you are a large consumer of sparks it becomes pretty attractive. They have an app for your phone so you can see what today's forecast rates are for each hour – very useful. At 17:36 I got an SMS to say rates were spiking so "turn off what you can" and an hour later another SMS to say "relax, it's over". So I looked at the app and sho'nuff the rate at 17:30 was $45 something per kW.
That's a REALLY useful service!
They have a mate's rates thing where if you refer someone to them you both get a $30 credit. (read into that whatever you like :D)
Pretty smooth experience so far, but it's early days yet.
BrettQuote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
Interesting that there Hooking up with the Commonwealth Bank, maybe I’m just moving into the over cynical view point, but then we’re talking about banks, an spark provides.
None seem too be making huge financial loses lately.
Tho from a personal perspective I have no reason too be hear [emoji849].
Cheers Matt.
BrettQuote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
It is useful providing you notice it. :)
Yesterday was a good example for price spikes. In Queensland there was a wholesale spike to $14,777. In NSW it went to VOLL (value of lost load), which is the ceiling price, and made an eye watering $16,599 per MW/hr. If you happened to be thicknessing (3KW) and, of course, dust collecting (2KW) and because of the noise and your level of concentration did not notice the notification, you may have blown the expected monthly budget in one day!
In QLD it lasted for about ten minutes at that level and then reduced. I did not see what happened in NSW.
Regards
Paul
Yes, it's a work in progress to see how it goes. The price spike they showed at 17:30 was $45/kWh which is $45,000/MWh, so I'm not sure I understand how that works yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
Amber is monthly billing so I should know pretty quickly how well it goes.
Origin Retention rang back again this morning. The rates they offered were slightly lower than the two retailers I chose $100/year for sparks and $6/year on gas), but as I said to her "then I only have Origin's billing incompetence to cope with". I declined their offer and said I would be in touch if it didn't pan out as I expect.
Sounds like our experience with Red Energy. If their business model consists of happily losing customers by refusing to match lower prices, having the customer switch to another provider, then running around making better offers to get the customer back.....I'd say they have a problem.:rolleyes:
Happy with OVO; it isn't even summer yet, and on sunny days we're already routinely making a couple of $ a day even allowing for supply charges, etc. I'm still getting used to the idea of my (prepaid) account balance going up instead of down, and they pay 3% interest on surplus finds in your account. I'm expecting at least two quarters to be in credit at this rate, and we only have a 5kW inverter on our solar.
Yes, there is an anomaly there with the $16,599 cap and a $45 charge. It should have been $15.60. Somebody has poor mathematics skills or is telling porkies. If they are charging you the wholesale price (plus their membership fee) are they repaying you when the price is negative. For example, as I write the w/sale price is $- 56.91 meaning that they should be paying you nearly 6c for every Kw/hr.Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceFurniture
I only have figures for yesterday in QLD, but even with the price spikes the average was $189 which translates to around 19c/Kwhr. It may have a little more in NSW as the volatility seemed slightly more extreme. The previous days averaged 3.9c and 5.2c per Kwhr in QLD. However, I would be wary of any retailer who does not have contracts in place as that may well be a very different "Wholesale price" as all the previous figures related to the spot market.
Something does not ring true with the "wholesale" price statement.
I would be interesting to know exactly how this is managed.
Regards
Paul
Yep. Mind you, I think Amber's minimum time period is 30 minutes, rather than the 5 minute intervals that the wholesale market uses. That's probably for practical reasons, and they probably average the 6x five minute intervals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
Yes they do pay me when it's -ve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
You and me both! The billing cycle is monthly, so I'll just modify my spreadsheet accordingly, and I should have a pretty good idea after the first 2 months, depending on how much heating is required. We are killing the gas heating to see how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushmiller
This was the situation a few minutes ago, and I think that confirms the 30 minute intervals they use.
Attachment 530283