CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

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Originally Posted by woodPixel

I'd like to think that the gov will "call up" everyone who is a retired doctor (in any form), left the profession, was a nurse or even skilled volunteers/enthusiasts.

I know nothing of the complexities of real nursing, but its critical and it frees up doctors to do the really important stuff. I'm sure an intelligent grunt can be given the basics quick smart... enough to supplement in tough times.

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WP

I would very much like to think that something like that could happen, irrespective of the detail (I take Bob's concern about the "grunt" aspect), but in principle it would be possible: However maybe not in Australia where the bureaucracy is an immovable behemoth. Let me explain: In the last couple of months our local doctor general practice closed down. The circumstances are controversial so I won't go into the detail, but it left us without a GP facility. The local hospital has taken over the GP duties and has brought new people in from far afield. They were unable to directly employ any of the original staff from the the medical practice because of protocols and basically bureaucracy! I t was only the practice owner who was under investigation.

In this case it is Queensland Health who have not moved. In a way it is not their fault as the system has been set up with such a level of rigidity that they are quite unable to step outside the guidelines and their own self regulation. I suspect it will be similar in other states.

Again it is fear that prompts this attitude: Fear that if something goes wrong there will have to be a scapegoat and a head or heads will have to roll.

Regards
Paul

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

WP

I would very much like to think that something like that could happen, irrespective of the detail (I take Bob's concern about the "grunt" aspect), but in principle it would be possible: However maybe not in Australia where the bureaucracy is an immovable behemoth. . . . l

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Im pretty sure this would new covered in emergency health situations like a pandemic where the Gov basically takes over. A bit like the army reserve being used during the bush fires.

I’ve missed the news,long days,
But ,has India and Africa been hit hard yet by the virus.?
I read that India had about 500 cases by early March.
I would be extremely concerned for both countries,
They would not have the infrastructure or resources to cope.


Cheers Matt.

Well it looks like the collective state rumps and big federal rump have collectively done sweet FA until its too little and too late.

I was thinking that our systems, like hospitals, are very "hands off".

One drops in with a bag and everything is taken care of. No problem with that, its quite civilised. The problem is... what happens when N% of the population and ~20% of all cases are serious, and simultaneous?

The bods we'd rely on are in the process of dying (or, in the colloquial language of our government, "Getting Better")....

It seems reasonable that if a family member can look after Uncle Joe while they are holed up at home, then they can chip in at the hospital and help with the routines.... things like feeding, sanitation, beds fixed up, things cleaned, the trolley of stacked yellow bags to the furnace...



I'm not talking about heart surgery or doing MRI perfusion tests, but hey, I'll give it a crack! :)

I'll wear a stethoscope on my neck :) Quack quack! :B

Unfortunately it's now got so bad in some Italian hospitals that there are some patients just being left to die, not because they don't have staff to feed or clean them but because they don't have enough skilled staff or the ICU beds/ventilators necessary to keep them alive. It's not like someone attached to a bunch of machines in ICU is eating much or where unqualified persons should even be. The patients being "let go" are also not just COVID19 sufferers but include those that have presented with the severe stroke and cardiac etc issues, that are oldest and sickest. The doctors and experienced nurses are now directing their efforts and resources to saving younger patients who have greater chance of recovery.

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Originally Posted by BobL

Unfortunately it's now got so bad in some Italian hospitals that there are some patients just being left to die, not because they don't have staff to feed or clean them but because they don't have enough skilled staff or the ICU beds/ventilators necessary to keep them alive. It's not like someone attached to a bunch of machines in ICU is eating much or where unqualified persons should even be. The patients being "let go" are also not just COVID19 sufferers but include those that have presented with the severe stroke and cardiac etc issues, that are oldest and sickest. The doctors and experienced nurses are now directing their efforts and resources to saving younger patients who have greater chance of recovery.

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I believe the term is triage -- the military kind





a pretty confronting specter if you've not previously been exposed to it.

Following on from BobL's post, this is a good article on why it's important to slow down the rate of new cases, even if, ultimately, COVID19 becomes endemic in the population.

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Originally Posted by ian

I believe the term is triage -- the military kind
a pretty confronting specter if you've not previously been exposed to it.

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I reckon it would be confronting either way?

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Originally Posted by BobL

Haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere but 2 useful outcomes of COVID19 are a massive reduction in industrial air pollution over China (and hence the whole northern hemisphere) and a significant world reduction in high altitude dust from reduced air travel could produce some global cooling. At some point I wonder if the benefit of these could outweigh the death rates from COVID19?

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This has begun to be taken seriously and given that it's estimated that pollution kills somewhere between 5-7 million persons per year it appears there's definitely going to be some benefits.

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Originally Posted by AlexS

Following on from BobL's post, this is a good article on why it's important to slow down the rate of new cases, even if, ultimately, COVID19 becomes endemic in the population.

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I thought that this was an interesting article ...

Inside China’s All-Out War on the Coronavirus - The New York Times

Regards from Perth

Derek

It is indeed an interesting article Derek, and it seems that we have a lot to thank the Chinese for, in the way they moved quickly to slow it down.

Re WoodPixel's post, at the end of Derek's article, there was this interesting comment on the use of non-medical people.

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Lots of government employees were reassigned?

From all over society. A highway worker might take temperatures, deliver food or become a contact tracer. In one hospital, I met the woman teaching people how to gown up. I asked, “You’re the infection control expert?” No, she was a receptionist. She’d learned.

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I've been watching this feed for some time: YouTube

It's a live feed from multiple cameras around Wuhan.


Two days ago, to much fanfare, the city went "back to work".

Its 3 hours behind us (Sydney EST), but also winter, so the sunlight goes earlier and comes later.

Regularly, the cameras are taken offline. Just like that. Poof! Read into that what you will. New ones are found and added on.


But, Wuhan is a city of 20 million.

Notice anything? Anything.... odd?

No people. No cars. We can expect that.... (well, peak hour this morning consisted of a few dozen cars, total)

BUT, no lights on in the buildings. All the residential lights ... off... have been for two weeks. I've watched the buildings go from 90%... 60, 50, 25, 5%... tonight... almost zero.

Look at the videos of across the Yangtsee, the shots in the residential areas, across from the hospitals (if they remain online).


The Chinese number are absolute fiction. The emergency hospitals, I watched this very afternoon, dozens of carts being brought out and loaded into the "Ambulances". It was shut a few days ago, for there are now only a few cases... amongst 20 million. My ass.

Be safe.


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CoronaVirus now hitting world's economy too.

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Originally Posted by ian

I believe the term is triage -- the military kind

a pretty confronting spectre if you've not previously been exposed to it.

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Originally Posted by BobL

I reckon it would be confronting either way?

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Maybe not so much confronting as ruthlessly efficient.

Those who are almost certain to die (think complications like a massive stroke or heart attack) might get some palliative care.
Those that are guaranteed to survive get a "band aid".
Those expected to make a full recovery with treatment will likely get access to an ICU bed.