Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed. This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?
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Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed. This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?
Actually I tend to agree, commemmorating the invasion of this continent by the British in establishing a penal settlement of New South Wales is not the right date for commemmorating the establishment of our Commonwealth.
Unfortunately the right date of the 1st of January is already a holiday.:D
Peter.
Professor Mick Dodson is perfectly entitled to express his opinion.
Sturdee hit the nail right on the head though.
I conclude that none of the civil passengers on the first fleet actually wanted to come here, they were compelled by gun & whip. Yet their descendants don't have issue with the date of Australia Day.
Perhaps the aboriginal cause needs to consider this fact too.
Maybe Australia day should be April 1st
Australia's humanitarianism towards the country's indigenous peoples is a national shame and the cause of much derision abroad. I too think it's appalling that 'Australia Day' venerates the 1788 incursion of the First Fleet and all that followed.
Why not shift 'Australia Day' to commemorate an event everyone can be proud of… perhaps the anniversary of the day the Prime Minister said "Sorry".
Why dont we have a day for the indigenous peoplen we can all have another day of.
Maybe call it Indigenous sorry day.
I can tell you, my relatives weren't to happy to be here on that date either, but they got over it. It was 200 years ago, not letting go of these things are what causes thing like the middle east and YugoslaviaQuote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
woodwould, if it hadn't been colonised by Australia, it would have been France, or perhaps Holland or Spain. They would have treated Aboriginal Australians far worse than anything that ever occurred under the British, imagined or real.
Aboriginal Australians should be eternally grateful that it was Britain, and not some other colonising power, which decided to assume possession of this continent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echnidna
No but May the 7th, being the date the first Australian parliament was first called together. The day the nation came together through its first elected representatives meeting in Melbourne would be appropriate.
And my views has nothing to do with the Aboriginals but if it helps them as well, so much the better.
Peter.
Ron I think Australia was colonised by Britain surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Dunn
No, we would have organized them and put them to work to earn us money and no such thing as slacking of or doing their own thing or going walkabout.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Dunn
Peter.
Surely you are joking :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
What a pointless argument! :rolleyes:
What difference does it really make what day we celebrate it on? I'm sure that somewhere, someone will find some reason the day isn't suitable. Every day of the year can be associated with something bad, "socially distasteful" or just plain conflicting. (as in Jan 1st, Dec 24th)
Besides, Australia Day is celebrating the landing of the First Fleet. If you don't like that, don't go around pretending that it's "Pride in Australia Day" or put some other twist on it, just don't celebrate it at all! Lobby for another date to be set aside as "Autralian Pride Day" or whatever, but don't go corrupting another part of what is our heritage, distasteful as you may find it.
I can't see anything more senseless than people trying to rewrite history. It happened and we can't change that, although we can remember and try to learn from our mistakes. How can we do that if wannabe goody two-shoe politicos go about rewriting history so we don't feel so guilty about it?
Sheesh! :doh:
Shall I shut up now?
Reconciliation is not about trying to punish Australians for something they had nothing to do with 200 years ago. Someone should remind the PC police of this.
Australia Day is about Australia and what it has become, its not a political football for someone to score points with.
Hahahaha ... yeah ... and I typed that message in Seattle, in a state of severe travel tiredness. Perhaps the typical American ignorance of history and geography is catching :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shed
Hi CorbsQuote:
Originally Posted by corbs
I thought the same until the paper arrived. Apparently he had said this in the lead up to the decision so he didnt spring it on them.
I have no time for the "sorry" industry. But I can see his point. It would hardly rate as something to celebrate.
Then again, why have Australia Day anyway, our head of state is some chick whose only credentials are that she was the result of two people who no one elected having 'relations' and then leading us.
Time for us to grow up, gets some nads and move out of home. :)
G'Day All
Would like to humbly suggest the word Indigenous be used correctly, as I was born in Australia of good white convict stock I consider I am Indigenous to Australia. So if we are talking about aboriginal people lets call them that. And I didn't get the wooden spoon in the last contest to not use it.:wink:
Cheers
Bernie
The term indigenous peoples can be used to describe any ethnic group of people who inhabit a geographic region with which they have the earliest known historical connection.Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieP
And that would probably be Mungo Man I would imagine :wink:
I come from a country where sectarian bloodshed has been going on since the early seventeenth century and still was when I left. Many dear and close friends were murdered there. It's a bit hard to forget such conflict and terrors when the culture around you lives and breathes it. Try getting over someone murdering one of your children in the name of religion/politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gra
I don't disagree, but do we need to rub their noses in it every year? Imagined or real? :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Dunn
Oh I'm sure they feel positively indebted to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Dunn
Isn't that a contradiction in terms? :qQuote:
Originally Posted by BernieP
Which bit did you find amusing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
All of it really but especially the bit where you said we should commemorate Dudd saying sorry (not on my behalf).Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
The whole point of people being upset about suggesting Australia day be moved is that it is grand standing to gain attention.
That is what Dudds apology was too and you want to commemorate that :oo:
How can a nation be proud of having a spineless leader who apologises on our behalf just to gain a small % of votes.
I am proud of the fact that Australia has grown to become a great country, that all began with settlement so I am proud of the first fleet arriving.
If you are not then perhaps you should book a flight somewhere else.
History cannot be changed however the future can.
If you choose to feel seperated or isolated by an event, there is nothing that can be done, however if you choose to become involved and participate, then you can gain some ownership of the event, rather than trying to spoil it for the majority.
Now I can't believe you're being serious!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
It has nothing to do with what I want, but what's good for the nation (both domestically and abroad) and in particular, the indigenous peoples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
It's infamous crass Aussie sentiment like this that sets the country back decades and must be so insulting to Aboriginals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
The issue has nothing to do with me being proud (or otherwise) of Australia or whether I should sling my hook; it's about concilliation and moving forwards and to that end, the current Prime Minister, think what you will of him, has taken a tremendous humanitarian step by acknowledging the wrongs dealt to the country's indigenous inhabitants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
I totally agree Corbs, 110%. Some people don't like Mondays, lets change it to another name or another day of the week while we're at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by corbs
:angfire:
Sounds like an excellent idea. How about moving it into Sunday's slot, calling it 'Aborigine Day', making it a public holiday and doing away with Sunday altogether, you know; just to give the change some significance. :qQuote:
Originally Posted by Waldo
Bloody Hell, Woodie,you are a stirrer.No wonder the Black and Tans were after you!!:-:-
Me??Oirish QUAKER stock, so strictly neutral!:;:;
Black and Tans! You've got your religions and politics mixed up a bit. :UQuote:
Originally Posted by Lignin
BTW, I lived fairly close to the Quaker Meeting House at the Grange (founded in 1657 - three years after the formation of the Religious Society of Friends).
Incidently, I'm not a Quaker, but I am 'neutral' as you put it. :U
Well said that person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
Then again the PC police and their like never let reality get in the way of having a rant..
:whs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzi
Just imagine iIf all these smart people, black, white & brindle spent as much time working on the future of our great country as they have worrying about the past.:doh:
G'Day WoodwouldQuote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
I don't consider it a contradiction in terms at all, however I know you don't understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is what I meant.
Cheers
Bernie
You may not consider it a contradiction in terms, but it is nonetheless. :qQuote:
Originally Posted by BernieP
Does history relate what your ancestors were convicted of? They may not have been very bad people (stealing a loaf of bread to keep your family alive isn't really bad in my books).
If we could shrink the worlds poulation to a village of precisely 100 people,with all the existing human ratios remaining the same,it would look something like this.
There would be 57 Asians 21 Europeans 14 from the Western hemisphere,
both north and south 8 Africans. 52 would be female and 48 would be male.
70 would be non white and 30 would be white.70 would be non Christian and 30 would be Christian. 89 would be hetrosexual and 11 would be homosexual
6 people would pocess59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 would be from the USA. 80 Would be living in substandard housing. 70 would be unable to read.
50 would suffer from malnutition. 1 would be near death and 1 would be near birth.
1(yes only 1) would have a college education 1 would own a computer.
When one considers our world from such a compressed perspective the
need for acceptance,understanding and education becomes glaringly
apparent. The following is also something to ponder.....
if you woke one up this morning with more health than illness......you
are more blessed than 1 million who will not survive the week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment,the agony of torture,or the pangs of starvation...you are ahead of 500 million people in the world.
if you can attend a Church meeting without fear of harassment,arrest,torture or death........you are more blessed than three billion people in the world.
If you have food in the refrigerator,clothes on your back,a roof over your head and a place to sleep.......you are richer than 75% of this world.
If you have money in the bank, in your wallet and spare change in a dish some where........you are amoung the top 8% of the worlds wealthy.
If your parents are still alive and still married you are very rare even
in the USA and Canada.
If you can read this message,you just received a double blessing in that
someone was thinking of you and furthermore you are more blessed than
over two billion people in the world that cannot read at all.
Someone once said :
"What goes around comes around"
Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you have never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Live like it's Heaven on earth.
One can never be sure of the hard numbers one thing is for sure we all
very lucky to be where we are and who we are!
So what's your point ?
G'Day WWQuote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
No he was an awful man pinched a watch, but she was worse she was Irish, oh and she also pinched a pair of shoes in Dublin. Well documented:2tsup: OK so it wasn't good white stock, but certainly good enough for me and mine.:D
Cheers
Bernie
Seriously, is there someone alive today that can remember a massacre. The last one I was aware of 1928 when a WW1 veteran shot 32 aborigines after they had attacked a station owner and dingo trapper. Horrible thing to happen but hardly something anyone here should feel ashamed of, nor something an entire race can hold against todays people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodwould
The truth is that no one alive today in our country should have any feelings of shame or guilt over how we all got here or what has happened in the past. Lets look at my family tree - my great, great, great, grandfather arrived here in the 1840's as a refugee. Its interesting to note that in 1789 his father was rounded up off his farm and had to decide whether to be guilletioned or go into exile. From all accounts he was an okay kind of bloke, but hell, even if he was out shooting innocent people I think its a long bow to draw that I should think anything of it other than as history. If my father did it perhaps I would feel a some shame.
What is irrational is to place our belief systems of today on the decisions made 221 years ago. Lets take a snapshot of the period;
Slavery in America. 1619 to 1860. Enlightened Canada didnt abolish it till 1830.
Witches were still being killed in England as late as 1894
Women would wait another 150 years to vote.
In England you could be "indentured" at the age of 10 until you were 21 to a master against your will.
Two loaves of bread could get you exiled for life.
225 female convicts were packed into a brig and sent to the colony in a floating brothel as breeding stock for the colony.
So who were these people that whose behalf we should be ashamed. 1418 people who none of us knew, (700 of which had no choice as prisoners, the rest ordered by the govt) were shipped to a place and dumped. Only 15 of these had an education of any value.
By the values of the times, they did about the same as everyone else on the planet. They looked after themselves, behaved in a bigoted and racist way, killed people who they thought wronged them or they percieved as valueless.
Wouldnt it have been lovely if they had the values we have today. Sadly they didnt. Thats nothing we need to be ashamed about.
cheers
You may correct me if i am wrong but its not very long ago that the illustrious Mr Dodson was bagging white Australians and the Australian Goverment of the day in America which really does make one wonder how these awards are distributed and what the criteria is.
Regards mike:roll:
I know it was played down as insignificant but there was the expression of regret from Howard too. I am not sorry for anything I have done to the Aboriginal people, however I am regretful of how our history has played out and things that have happened in the past.
Too many ????? stirrers in the pot to let it all get sorted out in an orderly manner. Lets just see who can yell the loudest:no:
Better than one of my step-inlaws!Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieP
My comment that you've quoted, was in answer to Gra's remark about Middle Eastern and Yugoslavian atrocities of relatively recent times which would still be vividly remembered by many of those country's peoples. I personally witnessed many acts of terrorism and lost many friends and acquaintances as a result.Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzler
However, to respond to your post, past Aboriginal massacres obviously aren't the issue in question (in so much as there are no living Aborigines who could remember the events), but it's the Australian Government's (the Australian voting public's) on-going maltreatment/mishandling of indigenous peoples which is so appalling. There are Aborigines of virtually all ages alive today who could recall incidences of inhumanity levied against them by the whites – they don't need to rely on elders or lore to be reminded.