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1:19am and the party next door is still going - louder than it was at 10pm. Gawd I hate listening to other people's music - especially music this bad. Maybe I'm just getting old. Bah humbug.
Guess who's going to be firing up the DC & tablesaw at 9am. Hope the buggers have seriously nasty hangovers :)
why wait til 9... ;)
We have eight neighbours and the closest one is 150 metres away, with a buffer of thick scrub and trees. Never hear them.
Just bragging :D
Honey catches more flies than vinegar so try talking to them nicely and quitely.
Try very hard to avoid getting into neghborhood problems which can easily escalate into a very very nasty situation.
My neighbours are very quiet. It's the 10 dogs in the 5 houses that border my property that make a bit of noise. 2 houses have 2 dogs each and one has 4. I'm not all that worried any more about annoying the neighbours when firing up the table saw and router. I'm also going to give up learning to play songs on my sax and just concentrate on playing scales. An hour of doe, ray, me, far, so, la, tee, doe, should make me feel a lot better.:mad:
I think echidna makes a good point. Then, so does Shane. Why not combine the two and knock on the door at 6.00am to talk reasonably with them for an hour or so...
Al.:D
..........whilst playing doh ray me fah so lah tee doe.........:p
Cheers
When I was a kid I used to play drums in a band. One Saturday afternoon we were practicing in our garage when the neighbour came over and asked us to stop because we were disturbing him. He'd bought the house a few months earlier as a holiday house and he was a 'business man' from Melbourne (drove a black BMW).
Naturally enough we stopped but when my dad came home he saw us sitting around looking sad and he asked why we weren't practicing. We told him what happened, so he told us to start playing again and he would hang around near the front of the house working on his car.
No sooner had we started again when the guy comes storming over. He sees my dad with his head under the bonnet and goes over and says "Excuse me". It took a couple of attempts to get his attention (my dad is good at this). When he finally looks up, the guy goes "I told your kids to stop playing. It's Saturday afternoon and we're trying to get some peace".
Dad says "Where are you from?". The guy says "I'm from next door, I own the house next door". Dad says "Yes, but where are you from?". "Oh, I'm from Melbourne". Dad replies "Well, why don't you go back there?" This was not the response the guy was hoping for. His mouth starts to open and close like a fish.
Then the old man launches into a tirade about how he'd rather we were in the shed playing music than down the park taking drugs and how he was sick of people expecting us to put our lives on hold because it was holiday season and why didn't the guy go out in the street and dance to the music instead of complaining because a bunch of kids were trying to do something creative instead of destructive.
So the guy goes away with his tail between his legs and a few months later the house is on the market. It's still a holiday house but the lady who owns it is hardly ever there. She hasn't heard the new thicknesser going yet but the Christmas holidays are nearly here!
/delurk on
...I can brag just like you 'q9'....maybe you're my neighbour???
My nearest neighbour is ~150m away, next about 700m, and then we can just see the others. The closest one breeds Jack Russells, so it gets a bit frenetic at 3pm when he feeds them, but unless I'm outside and the wind's from the west, I can't hear them.
I used to live in Werribee, where we had the neighbour from hell. He decided it'd be a great idea to have a party one Saturday night in his drive/back yard with a CD Jukebox and a cast of thousands. We went to bed at 12am (we have 3 young kids) and my wife called the cops at 1am, who said we weren't the first complainant. They arrived at 1:30am, music was quiet for about 15 minutes, then went louder than before. She rang them again at 2am, ditto at 4am, when I think they were fined. The guy went off his head, screaming and ranting in our bedroom window that he was going to 'get' us.
Anyway, things went downhill from there, especially when I mowed the lawn at 10am, and let the kids chase each other up and down the driveway :-) Never really forgave us after that, and we moved out into the country to get away from the likes of him and his ilk, of which Werribee seems to have an ample sufficiency.
Bliss!
The only downside, if any, if that you become attuned to even the smallest noise, and I can hear cars coming about 500m away, and a tractor in the next paddock sounds like a jumbo taxiing.
Have a great (quiet) Christmas everyone!
Mick
Mines just moved out ,greatest bitch god ever put breath into!!
I kept leaving little piles of stones on her doorstop,shifted out furniture lock stock an barrell,this morning, cant stop cheering,all my hard work was worth it!!!
Just prey that it's not a case of "The Devil you know..." :)
Merry Christmas
Craig
If it is same treatment applies!!
Could likely be though ,another single woman moving in!!
I'm beginning to discover that a few of my neighbours are wankers.
We moved into our house 6 months ago. On our left are three small homettes. Never had a complaint from one of them - two of them are nice. On our right are four units - never have a complaint from them either, even waived to and chatted to a few of them.
Our problem is the group of 8 flats at the back, within 1m of my 20' x 30' solid brick garage/workshop. When we moved in one of our dogs was very yappy. Admittedly this was very annoying, but the wankers at the back were complaining to us within 2 days of our moving in and threatened to complain to council. The old fart in the flats (who apparently owns three of them) came to our door one afternoon filled with dutch courage and told us he'd collected 40+ signatures ready to take to council. Within 8 weeks of moving in we decided to give the noisy dog away, which wasn't easy. Did we get any thanks from any of the pricks at the back - of course not.
On New Years Day at about 10:30a I decided I went to make some lap joints with the router, which is a noisy task. I hadn't used the router for 5 months since moving in. I used the router for a total of about 45 hour intermittedly up until about 5:45. At that time a creeps from the back corner flat shouted over the back fence "Hey - give it a f**king rest - its quarter to 6", so i decided to give up. I should mention we are all within one block of a train line from which we all regularly hear trains thundering down and using their horns so the background noise is fairly loud anyway. I've got some sympathy for one of the group because they have a baby and getting them back to sleep after a consistently loud noise is pretty hard.
Since the last bit of abuse I've been researching very closely into how domestic noise disputes get settled in court because I think its going to end up that way if I keep working in my garage.
My advice is that if you're going to move into an area with flats think very carefully before you buy or rethink your woodworking habits because the noise regulations are complaint driven and favour the cranks.
Bloody hell, no wonder they were cranky, after 45 hours of router noise,I'd be bloody cranky too. I presume you meant 4-5 hours or 4.5 hours.
Cheers
Barry
What is it with the sort of people that live in town houses and villas? I live in an area of Sydney that's been re-zoned for medium density housing and the some of the people that live in this type of housing really make you want to move out of this city. The blocks of land round here are pretty big (for Sydney) and are being targetted by developers who want to put up 8-10 town houses where there is currently one house.
My place is surrounded by them and one neighbour whose town house is right next to my bedroom window has a spoilt kid that screams day and night. When you try to appeal to the mother's sensibilties, all you get is a torrent of four letter abuse. Yet this woman made a complaint about the people in the town house next to her for having the music up to loud (once in two years).
Then there's this other couple whose town house borders the back of my place that play their "music" loudly and often. I wouldn't mind so much if it was Deep Purple, Black Sabbath Led Zepplin or the Beatles but it's rap and hip-hop and I hate the stuff.
Maybe I'm just getting old and it's time to move to the South Coast.
Bob
There are just as many a....holes down here as there are in the city,believe me.
Thought my hated neighbour had left but returned to her empty unit bereft of any furniture, so had to start the harassment all over again, turned on all radios full blast, scanner,TV at midnight, fullbore.Heard much slamming of doors car start up etc,but since then peace and quiet.must have got the hint.
Why cant bl....y people leave you alone!!
All I want is peaceful enjoyment of my surroundings and being able to do what you want when you want.
Every time I kicked up a saw, sander etc ,this thing would appear from nowhere and make some smart remark,so ended up closing garage door in her face.
P..s O.. and leave me in peace!!!!!
Does anyone know what the laws is in regards to noise using hand tools at home in the shed. I`m lucky, where my shed is loocated is close to my neightbours house and they are both deaf and couldn`t care less. But i`m waiting for the day a defferent neighbour complains.
Is it true you can make all the reasonable noise you want between eg 9.00am and 6.00pm.
Can't answer for SA but in VIC there are times listed in the EPA Act for the use of various noise making objects. These differ depending on the day of the week. Tried to look it up but the Govt. has made the website too hard to navigate and i can't find it. In VIC you may not use the specified tools etc. outside the specified times. BUT... Between those time you can't just go berserk and be as loud as you want. The noise must be reasonable. This takes into account the volume, intensity, duration, environment, etc. It also depends on the opinion of the enforcing officer as to whether it is unreasonable or not.
Talk to your local police and they will be able to give you the scoop on the local (state) laws. Also, many councils have by-laws relating to noise. The penalties for these can be harsher than the statutory fines.
Dan
On one side I have a neighbour who also does a bit of woodwork - frequently at 11:00pm - he has been known to use the chainsaw at midnight! Oh! and a teenage daughter who likes VERY loud 'music' - but he doesn't.
The other side either have all night booze sessions or drift home (noisily) at 3:00am after being thrown out of the local night spots.
Just let either of them complain about my 9:00am to 6:00pm noise making!!!
Thank heavens for air conditioning and a fairly soundproof house.
Cheers
Oops! I meant to say 45 minutes. :oQuote:
Originally posted by Baz
Bloody hell, no wonder they were cranky, after 45 hours of router noise,I'd be bloody cranky too. I presume you meant 4-5 hours or 4.5 hours.
Cheers
Barry
I'm not a lawyer but here's what I've been able to find out.
Here in SA workshop noise is covered primarily under the Environment Protection Act. The EP regulations in SA permit machinery noise as per the schedule to the regulations. (last page at the back).
These times are "policies" within regulation. Complainers can also take action against you if they think the noise reduces the "amenity" of their living space outside the prescribed times above.
In SA complainers can take action against you, either by complaining to the Police or through their their own solicitor, under the Environment Protection Act. If you were to be sued for workshop noise it would probably be under the S.82 as an "environmental nuisance". I haven't been able to find a case on action taken under this section, but from some similar cases I think the plaintiff has to prove that the dB, frequency, duration, and timing of the noise reduce on the amenity of their property.
I believe it is a defence that the court take background noise (eg lawn mowers, road/train noise) into consideration. I'm not sure if the court takes into consideration the duration or nature of the noise (routers make a terrible whining noise). The worst case outcome for a workshop owner would be to cease their use of machinery or install sound-proofing before continuing.
Having said all this, I think you'd need to be up against a determined, cashed-up and wiley neighbour that would want to go to court. I takes times and money (eg acoustic consultant) for them to establish someone is a nuisance. The court could just decide that you're not making any more noise than that present in a typical neighbourhood. Personally, I'm going to keep what I'm doing within the hours prescribed under the regs but be prepared for one or more of the wankers suing me one day...
Workshop noise is something that is going to affect all of us at some stage or another. So far I have not had any problems but this is partly due to how I operate and in the main good neighbours. I never use machines after sunset or before 10 Saturday and 11 Sunday. Planing, thicknessing and routing is timed for midday and ceases for the main before 2pm so that people having their afternoon nap do not get disturbed. Noise becomes a cumulative problem - the guy up the street has been tagged as a nuisance becuase his music is always booming through the neighborhood. The truth is his music is not on all the time but because it is on regularly and always booming it gives this impression.
I am always workshopping so I do not want to cack in my own nest and be shut down because I overstep the mark.
Soundproofing the shed is an option I have thought about but wonder how much router noise can be dampened.
Has anybody done soundproofing, how effective is it and is it a costly exercise.
I live in a 'holiday town' and within spitting distance of the main beach. A lot of the houses around us are either holiday homes or are inhabited by retired people (ex tourists who 'always said they'd retire here').
For example, the lady next door (who now owns the house once owned by the BMW driver mentioned above) is only here at this time of the year and she has been subjected to the calming sound of my thicknesser working on 6" hardwood planks for the last two weekends in a row. She still smiles at me, so either she's one of the old school, or she can't hear it. In my favour, the surf is actually quite loud most of the time, which raises the general level of background noise, so that loud sounds are not as obvious.
I never use the machines before 11am or after 5pm on a weekend. If anyone complains to me, I will point out to them that I only get two days a week to do this stuff and that during the week while they are sitting around on their balconies sipping mint julips (whatever they are) I'm at work and otherwise carrying on my life. So far it hasn't happened.
On the whole, most people are reasonable enough unless you give them a reason to bear a grudge. It's most likely to become a problem when some city person, probably some middle-management guy, comes here for a 'peaceful holiday' and has his late morning reverie disrupted by my hand held electric plane. There is always building work going on around here, in some cases 7 days a week, so I'm but one of a handful of offenders.
As for soundproofing, having played in a number of bands over the years, most of which have at one time or another practiced in the garage or living room, I can say that there is not much you can do because of the various frequencies involved. Insulation batts will go some way towards attenuating the sound but will do more to keep your shed warm in winter and cool in summer. You pretty much need thick concrete walls, no windows, and a double door to soundproof a room. Having said that, anything is better than nothing and if you want to do something about soundproofing, there are accoustic products available. Gyprock walls with batts will probably be as good as anything.
Something that isn't too bad as a sound killer, especially for high pitched whinny noise, is carpet.
If you go to a carpet place, ask them about getting old carpet that they rip out of places when they do re-lays. Can be quite good, and cheap. Easy to screw up against the average tin shed, too.
They used to tell us in the sound engineering course I did that carpet was no good for soundproofing because it isn't of sufficient density to absorb the sound waves, which can be quite long in the lower registers. For high-pitched sounds, you're probably right, although I suspect that the sounds emitted by most machinery is actually a combination of wavelengths.
The high-pitched whine of a router bit engaging timber is probably less likely to carry than lower frequency sounds like those from a thicknesser and the carpet will probably have more success at absorbing it. However, it's the lower frequency sounds that people are most likely to be able to hear from their lounge rooms.
We tried carpet in our rehersal room but found that it didn't do much to attentuate the overall volume of sound outside. Particularly with things like drums and bass guitars, which tend to emanate sounds in the lower frequency range. What it does do is dampen reverbrations which can contribute to the level of noise inside the shed, so if nothing else, it would probably help save your own ears. They told us that if you wanted to use carpet for soundproofing, the more layers the better and preferably hang it in folds, rather than just nailing it straight to the wall.
Anyway, I'll bet there is heaps of info on the web about sound proofing and if anyone really needs to do it, I'm sure you'll find plenty of advice.
I vaguely remember that if you cover a room in empty egg cartons you get a poor man's anechoic (if that's how you spell it)
chamber.
Anything like that covered in your course Darren?
Craig,
Well, we're now getting on to a totally different subject but yes, we did discuss egg cartons etc for creating dead rooms. The most important aspect of such rooms is to have no parallel walls, so that standing waves cannot build up. Failing that, you can use large screens to break up the parallel surfaces. The other idea is to use different materials around the place. Egg cartons are good for breaking up high frequencies but you need larger structures for bass. They do nothing to soundproof a room though.
Studios tend to not like dead rooms these days. They put in some reflective surfaces like timber walls to try and liven things up a bit. Midnight Oil recorded an album at a state of the art studio in the US or Japan (don't remember which) years ago but they didn't like the dead accoustics in the drum booth, so Rob Hurst set his kit up in the bathroom downstairs. Apparently the owners of the studio were flabbergasted that their multi-million dollar studio was no good for this bunch of yobbos from Australia.
Thanks for that.
I realised after I posted that query that I was confusing dead with soundproof.
So if you put egg cartons on your workshop walls you'll hear all the frequency of your power tools AND your neighbours will still get to listen to them too. :D
Cheers
Craig
.. and they'll sound great if you want to record them ;)
Hi All
We had neighbours from hell once, three teenage kids with a single parent.
Every time the Dad went out, the music was cranked up full blast.
They used to time it, because the music was always turned down just before Dad got home.
This went on for 2 years, we used to get used frangers thrown over the fence, beer cans you name it, we’ve got side by side driveways with a fence down the middle of it.
Parties every weekend when dad was away Tomcatting, I used to ask them nicely at first to turn the music down, but in the end I had to take the crude “turn the f$#@ing music down approach.
The last straw was the all weekend party that started on Friday afternoon and went until 6AM Sunday, then started again 8AM Sunday.
There were about 200 people in their driveway Saturday night, screaming, shouting, fighting, climbing over our fence to escape.
I called the cops 5 times, other neighbours I talked to later, also called the cops, I think in total the cops were called about 12 times.
Cops come, music goes down, cops go, music goes up.
Sunday morning our street resembled a war zone, pizza cartons, stubbies, cans, you name it, it was here.
On Sunday morning, after the music started up again at 8AM, I got out of bed, said to the missus “people wonder why happens”, went and got some brick bats and started chucking.
I took out every window in the side of the house that faces ours.
One duffus from the party must have been feeling tough, he jumped the fence, so I bashed him.
I felt sorry for the Dad, and ended up paying for the windows, cost me $600.
The good thing is, they left the next month, ( they were renting, of course ).
Neighbours on the other side who had been there for 25 years were even contemplating moving because of the noise, so I think I did a good thing. Maybe I'll get a Noble peace prize
:D
Cheers Allan
My workshop as you probably know is under the house and I insulated the ceiling with insulating bats to stop the family noise from upstairs annoying me when I want peace and quiet in the workshop.Quote:
Originally posted by rodm
Soundproofing the shed is an option I have thought about but wonder how much router noise can be dampened.
Has anybody done soundproofing, how effective is it and is it a costly exercise.
I can assure you that it does not muffle the sounds of the saws, router, thicknesser or jointer but I take care to use those only at reasonable times during the day.
Peter
If anybody's still intrerested in noise insulation in the workshop, the current Tools and Shops has a fairly comprehensive article on the subject.
I can understand the frustration with neighbours. After having lived in Numurkah (country vic) for 15 years on a hobby farm surrounded by 1000 acres of quiet bliss I had to move back to the city for teens education and jobs etc. I have spent the last 5 years living on a major road in the outer east and whilst I have coped with the noise and smell of the city I cant take the traffic any longer.
In this time every property adjoining mine has been subdivided into either dual occ or has had units built on it and none of these I objected to being of the ' its your property its your right mentality'. I decided that the 'if you cant beat em join' trick would work for me so I designed 4 town houses to be built on this property and sold up and am moving a little further out to the edge of the Yarra Valley where my home will be still suburbian but across the road is beautiful open pasture with a hills backdrop where I can chill and remember the country life.
Oddly enough when I put the plans in with local council I had 3 objections from the neighbours living in the dog kennels around me.
Weird....Are they annoyed that they will live next to small boxes like their own or is it some strange envy that I'm free and out of here...who knows....but council didnt agree...guess those rates they collect are worth a bit of a whinge.
Anyway now I have to renovate this new place and will be using this site heaps (as posted in home reno) . I just hope the cows and horses across the road dont drink and party or play in a band till all hours...:D
We used to have 2 acres in Wonga Park, probably near you, ran out of room and moved to west Gippsland.
No neighbours but six farting horses in the front paddock at 3.00am can be a bit of a shock.
I have complained but they don't pay any attention.
Neighbours, over one Km away, this is great.
I'm used to farting horses....I owned some ...but farting cars....BLAH!!!
I only fart hot air.
Farting horses would give you some really serious stretch marks.
Yeah but what a ride:D
Goldy & DanP,
The link to victoria's noise guidelines/laws is http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/Noise/
Got my first grilling buy a neighbour this weekend for to much noise. Got a knock on the shed door while working and went out to see who it was and boy did she give me a mouth full all I got in was G`day how`s it going. Couldn't get a word in and have my say and just walked off on me. If was a problem all she had to do was ask politely to keep it down and could you do something about the noise but some people have no manners and just go for the throat.
Everytime I see my other neighbours and I ask them how the noise problem is and get the response no problem. Always start at 9am and finish before 6pm. Anyone had experiences like this do you just put up with them ore next tell them to go and get %$#@*&.
Regards Goldy.
Another well resurrected thread!!
My PB (personal best) was an 11.00 am Saturday complaint from a pyjama clad neighbour about our barking dog (dog was innocent, and neighbour was a loony!)..after wearing a stream of obscenities, I smilingly apologised and offered to mow the grass so he couldn't hear the dog over the noise of the mower.
Neighbour lost the plot, went inside and trashed his house, throwing chairs through his closed windows.
Oh dear. How sad. Never mind!
:eek: :eek: :eek:
P
Goldy,
got a new neighbour two doors down a few months ago. We're in a semi rural area and everybody knows almost everybody else. This woman moved in and dobbed my brickie mate in to the council because she thought he was building a 3 story extension in the back yard - he wasn't, just garden beds etc. The only illegal part of his building work was a bit of alsynite sheeting screwed from the fence to his potting shed roof. He put this up to stop sound from going straight into her lounge! She's also had a run in with the neighbours on the other side, thought the teenage daughter's TV was on too loud. She's had the council posting official noise complaint notices, including to our Rural Fire Brigade for using our siren :eek: . I took great pleasure in informing both her and the council that we were an emergency service and our covering legislation over-rode most other laws. The council at least should have known better. We've actually only fired the siren up once for a training session, all the other times it was for real. She's even complained to the police that all her neighbours are conspiring to drive her out! (We're not, she's doing fine all by herself :D ) I think some people have unrealistic expectations as to how quiet it should be where they live. People mow, brushcut, use power blowers, pressure washers, rebuild cars, do woodwork, renovate/owner build their houses and have parties. Come 7pm around here and it's dead quiet, all you can hear is the occasional car or cow, the crickets and curlews and at about 11pm the goods train. Unfortunately not everybody knows how to give and take and how to talk to someone if they have a problem with their actions. :(
I'm a bit worried what here reaction will be when I start machining all the timber for my new kitchen, I reckon the thicknesser will be running 8 hours a day for a few days at least.
Mick