self funded retirees

How many woodies in the last week or so have seen their superannuation hit for a six.:oo: Since Rudd the duds budget , tax on mining, and other balls up, utter waste of MY money, insulation,stimulus packages ,etc ,what do we do.:~
I worked bloody hard all my years without any hand outs, didn't even get the the money hand out when Rudd was giving everything away :?
I'm p----d off with anyone that thinks that Labour can run this country.
While I'm at it brumbles Brumby gets a mention too, Billions of dollars wasted
Since Labour has been in power in Victoria,cost over runs on every thing they touch, fast trains, Myki, roads ,desal water, anything they put their finger on blows out. How much longer do I, or we have to put up with these governments. End of rant nine fingers

NF sorry we all pay GST to fund this so we all suffer not just self funded retirees.

NSW is no different trouble is all those projects are private in both states but we are still forking out the $$$ for it. Now figure that one out.

And so say all of us!
Spare a thought for your neigbours. We reckon you have it good in Victoria....... In NSW we have a State Government that is the best that money can buy and still we vote them in every four years.
Just when you think they could not get any worse they always find a way.

labor!! Hard bloody labor.

See where the incoming British government has no money to run the counrty! That is thanks to labor!

Frankly, I don't care much who is in government. My main concern is that we get GOOD government. It is apparent that we do not seem to be getting that any where in Australia.

Not all the problems stem from government decisions, but I'd reckon that a majority do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wheelinround

NSW is no different trouble is all those projects are private in both states but we are still forking out the $$$ for it. Now figure that one out.

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it's quite simple really.
the private sector builds something like a desal plant on a "take or pay" basis -- which essentially means the ultimate customer (with desal water that's you or I) agree to either buy the plant's output or if it rains and the dams are full, pay for water the plant doesn't produce.

The "take or pay" concept is widespread
BHP wont open a new coal mine unless they have a forward contract of some sort for the coal.
Your local shopping centre will have a "use it or pay for it" lease agreement with the so called anchor tenants -- typically Coles, Wollies, David Jones, Myers. For example, in years gone by, it was usual for DJs or Myers to signup for a 40 year lease in a new shopping centre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

Frankly, I don't care much who is in government. My main concern is that we get GOOD government. It is apparent that we do not seem to be getting that any where in Australia.

Not all the problems stem from government decisions, but I'd reckon that a majority do.

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I think the problem is us.
we keep electing governments on the basis of a 10 second "sound bite" or a "beauty contest" or personal issues like what size tax cut will I get.

Only rarely do we as an electorate engage our pollies in any real discussion about the sort of future we would like to have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ian

I think the problem is us.
we keep electing governments on the basis of a 10 second "sound bite" or a "beauty contest" or personal issues like what size tax cut will I get.

Only rarely do we as an electorate engage our pollies in any real discussion about the sort of future we would like to have.

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Quite. But I must have a bad memory, I can't recall any of the rare real discussions you mention happening in the last 30 years. Unless you call the routing caused by Workchoices the result of a "discussion".

But let's go to the basics: the two party system does not allow the minority of thinking people to have a voice. If we are too stupid to change the system we deserve what we got.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

But let's go to the basics: the two party system does not allow the minority of thinking people to have a voice. If we are too stupid to change the system we deserve what we got.

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You're getting as cynical as me Frank.....

A couple of miner points (pun intended). The mining tax is by no means a certainty despite the bleating of the mining industry. Firstly he has to get it through the Senate, Libs wont support it and St Steve Fielding wont because he wont. If Fortesque's project wont get off the ground its because they cant sell what they propose to dig out and therefore no one will finance it. What is not told is the generous exploration concessions and insurance for failed projects that are part of the package.

What is not so widely reported is that ore prices are plumetting, that is why your BHP and Rio shares are getting trashed. Add that to Europe entering a recessionary phase, China's massive ore stockpiles and then you have some real reasons for the falling market. I got really annoyed when Howard and Costello took the credit for a resources boom fuelled economy now Swan is trying the same trick. Both "L"s are the same as far as I can tell and I am yet to be convinced that either one changes our economy when our economy relies on foreign miners digging Aussie minerals to sell overseas to sell back to us as manufactured goods and sending the profits overseas to their parents in London and Capetown. All my great grandchildren will inherit is a bunch of bloody great big holes in the ground.

A pox on their rancid egos......


end of my rave....

Some years ago Robert E Looney (sic) published a paper on the problems caused by mineral wealth on the development of third world economies.
His argument was that the wealth coming into a country caused a reliance on that wealth to the detriment of industry within the country. He believed imports would prevent any development of home grown industry as it was far easier to spend overseas than invest locally.
His paper was only looking at the third world but some of his conclusions are relevant to Australia today. How many of those enjoying the Australian economic 'miracle' are reliant on jobs in sectors which have an almost total reliance on imports?
Cheers,
Jim

So here we have a tax on "super profits" which for some reason is focused on the mining industry. What about the other industries producing super profits like our banks??? Banks earn their profit with assistance from the govt (guarantee on savings post last market glitch) and take far less risks than do the mining industry.

The mining super tax has been poorly thought out by Rudd and co. One overlooked side effect of this tax is going to be a spate of take overs of many of the small miners who suddenly find themselves unable to go ahead with projects due to lack of capital. No doubt the Chinese will be rubbing their hands with glee...

Sebastiaan: I am afraid my cynicism goes back a long time... keep in mind that I am in Australia because I made a decision that this country seemed the best place where to live, after all...

Jimbur: spot on. But why do you separate Australia from the third world? :D

Kiwigeo: sorry mate, but the comparison does not stack up. Without entering the discussion whether nationalism is good or evil, (and there is no point arguing that banks are prostitutes, that's what they are) the difference is that banks provide a service here with money which can come from everywhere and go ewerywhere, the miners take a bit of the nation's sovereignty away, never to come back. If we had coal for 4 years instead of 400 years, would you want to sell it or keep it? As regards the Chinese buying small miners, they are already doing it, hence the desire to get a better price for what we sell. There are laws for limiting foreign ownership, what you might want to find out is whether they are as strong as you would like them or not.

We are little leprechauns sitting on the pot of gold. Let's just trade it while we can and hope that in 50 years time when finite resources are dwindling the big boys don't just come and kick our children's ass out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

...

Jimbur: spot on. But why do you separate Australia from the third world? :D

.

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That's what the paper was about but, as you imply, even if we have first world incomes the precursors to third world living definitely exist here.
The same problem was seen in the UK and other parts of Europe with North Sea oil.
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimbur

How many of those enjoying the Australian economic 'miracle' are reliant on jobs in sectors which have an almost total reliance on imports?
Cheers,
Jim

---

Im going to turn that question around and ask how many people are in jobs that benefit directly or indirectly from the activities of the mining industry.

Lets look at who benefits each time I go off to work:

1. Taxi from residence to airport.
2. Qantas flight from Adelaide to Perth. Full fare as I often have to make last minute changes to my departure date.
3. Taxi from Perth Airport to a hotel in Perth CBD.
4. Room and meals at Perth Hotel.
5. Another taxi fare from Perth CBD out to the airport.
6. Skywest flight is up to 4 hours late departing 9 time out of 10 so $20 gets spent on meals and coffee at Perth Airport.
7. Skywest flight from Perth to Exmouth. The govt also gets a nice big bonus with the exorbitant landing fee they charge civil aircraft landing at Learmonth RAAF base.
8. Bristows helicopter flight from Exmouth to oil rig. Bristows are a foreign owned company but staff are all either locals or Perth based.

Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

...Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

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Easy. All of us. Didn't you see what happens when banks don't do their job properly? I am sure Nine Fingers had a few choice words, as I had, to express on that point when the GFC killed a quarter of our investments. Whatever the stupidity of our politicians, at least they kept enough control on the banks to avoid the excesses that have bankrupted Iceland. Or our bankers were smart enough to avoid these excesses anyway and therefore save the backside of our politicians. Take your pick. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Im going to turn that question around and ask how many people are in jobs that benefit directly or indirectly from the activities of the mining industry.

Lets look at who benefits each time I go off to work:

1. Taxi from residence to airport.
2. Qantas flight from Adelaide to Perth. Full fare as I often have to make last minute changes to my departure date.
3. Taxi from Perth Airport to a hotel in Perth CBD.
4. Room and meals at Perth Hotel.
5. Another taxi fare from Perth CBD out to the airport.
6. Skywest flight is up to 4 hours late departing 9 time out of 10 so $20 gets spent on meals and coffee at Perth Airport.
7. Skywest flight from Perth to Exmouth. The govt also gets a nice big bonus with the exorbitant landing fee they charge civil aircraft landing at Learmonth RAAF base.
8. Bristows helicopter flight from Exmouth to oil rig. Bristows are a foreign owned company but staff are all either locals or Perth based.

Now compare that with the number of people who directly or indirectly benefit every time a bank employee heads off to work??

---

You do make an excellent point for me. Most of the benefits are from service industries especially to the airlines which are reliant on foreign built aeroplanes and probably bought with money borrowed overseas.
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimbur

You do make an excellent point for me. Most of the benefits are from service industries especially to the airlines which are reliant on foreign built aeroplanes and probably bought with money borrowed overseas.
Cheers,
Jim

---

I don't quite follow your line of argument.

Even if the planes operated by Qantas and Skywest are foreign built, the passengers they fly generate income that goes predominantly to Australian owners and/or shareholders and the planes are also crewed and serviced predominantly by Australians.

Yes, all of the businesses I listed are service industries but why is that relevant? Service companies rely heavily on people to operate and that equals employment. All of the service companies I've listed except one (Bristows) are Australian owned and employ mainly Australians. My point is that its not just the CEO's and shareholders that benefit from the activities of mining and (oil and gas) companies.

To throw some figures into the equation....every time I do a hitch at work I spend around $4000 on travel and accomodation. I get in roughly 8 hitches a year which brings the total to $32,000. Add in a couple of cyclone evacuations and the total is getting up to around $40,000. That's the amount of money one person is injecting into the mainly WA service industry through working in the mining/oil and as game....you can quickly figure out that the total amount of money being injected into the Australian economy by all the country's mining and oil/gas workers is huge.

I agree with N.F. The discussion about who benefits etc. is based on people being employed and having enough working life left, to recover from lost spending power and maintain an acceptable lifestyle. Many of us do not have that privilege and are at the mercy of market forces. This can seriously affect our quality of life. Many of us also are very reluctant or to proud to depend on government handouts.
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

I don't quite follow your line of argument.

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I was probably overstating the case by calling it my argument.
What I meant was that elements in Looney's article on problems of mineral wealth in the third world could also be seen as applying to Australia in that there is a risk that reliance on one sector of the economy can be detrimental to the development of a more balanced general economy.
The benefits gained from primary production be it mineral, forestry or agricultural or made far greater if value adding can undertaken within the country than if that happens overseas. A simple example is wool which is exported in the raw state and returns as finished articles. A greater flow-on effect is enjoyed by the countries with the means of secondary production.
There is no argument that any productive endeavour creates the need for a service industry and that has flow-on effects as you have described. The danger postulated by Looney (unfortunate name I realise) is that it is so much easier and seemingly cheaper to import consumer and other goods than to develop those industries internally. In the event of a downturn in the value of primary production, whether through market vagaries or simple depletion of the natural resource whatever it may be, there is the risk of a far greater downturn in the economy than if home production took a greater share of the consumer demand.
Cheers,
Jim

One if the main problems in Australia is that it is a service centred economy. There is primary production but the necessary secondary industries to gain from that are really few in comparison and appear to be diminishing.
This is a result of us hugging the flat/level playing field that our governments decided we had to have.
With lack of secondary industries we as a nation are dependent on imports of our exported raw products. This puts us at a disadvantage in the long term.

As far a self funded retiree, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
I worked hard long hours and now I get only what I have from my retirement fund, yet I see much of the local trash spending $$ as if it is like water and they get benefits I can but dream of.
Where did I go wrong???

But listen carefully to a political party and you will see that self funded retiree is a fat cat so to speak.

More than 1 issue running here.

1. Why do politicians all seem so incompetent with their noses in the trough?

It's clearly a difficult job otherwise we would have good politicians, universally liked. When was the last good government that all can agree on? Politicians by definition play politics and records of public disenchantment with politicians can be found in historical records going back thousands of years. Basically politics appeals to a certain type of person and the bigger the ego, the better. We just have to hope in a democracy that the electoral system filters out the worst contenders and that debate and consensus work to result in a sane outcome.

Often the problem is that you don't feel like voting for any of the available candidates. I've felt like that at the last few Queensland elections. But if you don't have a credible opposition what do you do? The next federal election is shaping up the same way for me. Similar with local politics, there's usually a lot of people standing to go on the local council, but figuring out what they actually stand for is usually a challenge.

2. Why don't we build it at home and why must we be a service oriented economy?

Mechanization, mass production and economies of scale make other options a challenge. If the population was content to pay 10 times the price and wait years (decades?) longer to access new technologies then maybe you could do it all at home. However the model economies for doing it all at home aren't that encouraging, Burma and North Korea come to mind.

Even if you think you have the market cornered in some super technology the economies of scale in China will still make it difficult, if they want to enter that market. A news item I was reading recently was about the Japanese worrying about loosing the lead in high speed train technology. It seems China needs high speed trains and the economies of scale they expect will make the Japanese technology expensive.

3. Investment/Superannuation returns.

It's hard to make a buck and it is very scary working out how much you really need to be comfortably self funded. With recent experience and hindsight it is even scarier, but if you look at the really long term charts, things seem to be still going in the normal direction. Relatively the early 70's look far worse, which was when I started work. I hope things don't keep trending down like that for the next 10 years! Personally I find the thought of what all the sovereign debt problems could do to the world terrifying, but what do you invest in to make yourself safe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cultana

One if the main problems in Australia is that it is a service centred economy. There is primary production but the necessary secondary industries to gain from that are really few in comparison and appear to be diminishing.
This is a result of us hugging the flat/level playing field that our governments decided we had to have.
With lack of secondary industries we as a nation are dependent on imports of our exported raw products. This puts us at a disadvantage in the long term.

As far a self funded retiree, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
I worked hard long hours and now I get only what I have from my retirement fund, yet I see much of the local trash spending $$ as if it is like water and they get benefits I can but dream of.
Where did I go wrong???

But listen carefully to a political party and you will see that self funded retiree is a fat cat so to speak.

---

I often feel the same way Cultana, but if the local trash have money to spend it is because they have some funny source of income. Last I looked the dole is less than 1/3 of what you earn as a minimum to be off the pension.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fuzzie

2. Why don't we build it at home and why must we be a service oriented economy?

Mechanization, mass production and economies of scale make other options a challenge. If the population was content to pay 10 times the price and wait years (decades?) longer to access new technologies then maybe you could do it all at home. However the model economies for doing it all at home aren't that encouraging, Burma and North Korea come to mind.

Even if you think you have the market cornered in some super technology the economies of scale in China will still make it difficult, if they want to enter that market. A news item I was reading recently was about the Japanese worrying about loosing the lead in high speed train technology. It seems China needs high speed trains and the economies of scale they expect will make the Japanese technology expensive.

---

You left out one important factor......China's vast supply of cheap labour. China is where Japan was post WWII. As Japan's labour costs started to increase (people started rebelling against the idea of the company being more important than one's family) the world turned to other countries like Korea for cheap goods. Eventually Korean labour costs will increase and the cheap labour train will move on to another country..until we eventually run out of countries I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fuzzie

... If the population was content to pay 10 times the price and wait years (decades?) longer to access new technologies then maybe you could do it all at home....

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Yep. That's why it should have been started a long time ago. I can never understand why Australians seem to be very fond of Britain when they were treated no better than the Indians. And Australians never had anybody with the stature of a Gandhi to tell them to weave their own cotton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

I often feel the same way Cultana, but if the local trash have money to spend it is because they have some funny source of income. Last I looked the dole is less than 1/3 of what you earn as a minimum to be off the pension.

---

Sort of true. But if I have the govt pension, be it age or disability, I would have a lot more concessions than the ZERO ones I have at present. Same applies if I was on the dole.

The big funny source is drying up and will do so even faster when the Army finally takes over the extended Cultana range.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fuzzie

More than 1 issue running here.

1. Why do politicians all seem so incompetent with their noses in the trough?

It's clearly a difficult job otherwise we would have good politicians, universally liked. When was the last good government that all can agree on? Politicians by definition play politics and records of public disenchantment with politicians can be found in historical records going back thousands of years. Basically politics appeals to a certain type of person and the bigger the ego, the better. We just have to hope in a democracy that the electoral system filters out the worst contenders and that debate and consensus work to result in a sane outcome.:roflmao: (sorry just could not help it. the ideals are just too high.)

---

Why is it a difficult job? It may be more complex than say being a doctor, engineer, etc but that does not mean it is difficult.
The only difficult part is following the party line. It would seem that towing the strict party line is the stumbling block. If politicians were more interested in the states they come from and the needs of those states them the party line would be second to that needs and we might just by accident get real politicians who care in power.
Unfortunately many politicians are little more than trumped up party hacks.

Quote:

---

2. Why don't we build it at home and why must we be a service oriented economy?

Mechanization, mass production and economies of scale make other options a challenge. If the population was content to pay 10 times the price and wait years (decades?) longer to access new technologies then maybe you could do it all at home. However the model economies for doing it all at home aren't that encouraging, Burma and North Korea come to mind.

Even if you think you have the market cornered in some super technology the economies of scale in China will still make it difficult, if they want to enter that market. A news item I was reading recently was about the Japanese worrying about loosing the lead in high speed train technology. It seems China needs high speed trains and the economies of scale they expect will make the Japanese technology expensive.

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Well in many cases of build at home we as a nation and in reality our government do not push or in some cases hinder such ventures.
One such venture is the building and exporting of the Bushmaster IMV. This was on the list being looked at by the US but our delightful govt of the day did not move much to make it happen. This also applies with sales elsewhere.
During the war we built the Boomerang fighter and post war the Nomad aircraft. This ability to design and build and market such vanished and that was not really helped much by the govt.

Look at the many industries where we did build it at home and these have now vanished. The level playing field of trade helped heavily here. Notice it is no that level when we want to export to some countries. It is a one way street, them here, we not there. That is a govt problem.

[/QUOTE]

Yes we have a set of dud pollies and we are always told this can be fixed at the next election. Garbage!
One way that a nation keeps dud pollies less dud is having a real media that does real journalistic work. At present facts are few and far between in any media article and half the time the jurnos don't even know what they are writing about.
For the last 2 years most have been wetting their pants with religious hysteria every time a specific little Tin Tin look a like utters an incompressible phrase or two.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cultana

For the last 2 years most have been wetting their pants with religious hysteria every time a specific little Tin Tin look a like utters an incompressible phrase or two.

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:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Yeh, its a bit like the Palestinians who chose a religious organisation that provided food and social service (Hamas) over the blatantly corrupt Fatah. They love it when democracies make the "wrong" choice. End of little aside.

To be fair, the governments have been sweetening up superannuation so that more people can afford to be self funded in retirement. The baby boomer lump is coming into retirement and the tax system will not be able to afford all those new pensioners. The tax take needs to be increased or we will have pensioners staging a revolution. Tax Departments and Treasuries are paid to deal with this and they will act according to their charters, they go looking for more tax. Ken Henry is just doing his job, he is running out of places to add taxes.

Yes, the stock market is doing what it always has done but few have the resources to ride out the vagaries and short term volatilities of the market. Increasingly Australia is subject to forces outside our borders and these will determine what happens in our markets. By delegating to large financial concerns self funded retirees can have continuity of income but they need to pay a fee for this and so reduce their absolute returns. Im in the phase where Im starting to plan for this and there are tough choices that need to be made.

And when all the easy, lucrative minerals have gone our grandchildren and great grandchildren will become the drones of those who bought and added value to our resources. Australians will have a lucrative business selling the holes in the ground as rubbish dumps for the rest of the world.

Just a minor point but very important if you are a politician who wants to be seen as a good economic manager. Cheap imports put a damper on rises in the CPI.:D
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Eventually Korean labour costs will increase and the cheap labour train will move on to another country..until we eventually run out of countries I guess.

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Nah, I reckon it will go full circle and we'll become the 3rd world, cheap labour, country. At least it'll be payback time and we'll be able to annoy someone in Mumbai in the middle of their dinner to sell them some product they don't want. :U

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

Australians will have a lucrative business selling the holes in the ground as rubbish dumps for the rest of the world.

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Actually, that could be a brilliant idea, why don't we do it now? Given that Australia is said to be the most geologically stable continent and we already have a wonderful out of the way place already contaminated thanks to the already mentioned thoughtful care of the British, why don't we make Maralinga the site for the unbelievably high security world's sole deposit of nuclear waste? Much better for the planet than bribing corrupt tin pot countries to dump it in their water supplies and we would rake in the millions. Enough to double everybody's entitlement to the age pension. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Actually, that could be a brilliant idea, why don't we do it now? Given that Australia is said to be the most geologically stable continent

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Parts of Australia are relatively tectonically stable but other parts of the continent are actually quite active (eg Adelaide and surrounds). There are also other areas that are not suitable for dumping radioactive or other hazardous waste..such as the large part of eastern and south western Australia that overlies the Great Artesian Basin. The British tests produced radioactive atmospheric material that found its way east and into the charge areas of the GAB. Years later wells on the weatern edge of the GAB registered spikes in tritium and other radioactive isotopes that correspond to the British tests. The GAB aquifer varies in depth with maximum depths of the aquifers occuring at around 3000m.

Salt mines are the best places to stick hazardous waste but unfortunately Australia doesnt have alot of such mines. Abandoned oil/gas wells that penetrated into granitic basement are one good place to store radioactive waste if it can be suitably processed....vitrifying the waste material prior to burial at depth (Synrock) is one process that has been developed. Incidentally the Synrock process is an Australian invention and was being tested at Lucas heights back in the late 80's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimbur

Just a minor point but very important if you are a politician who wants to be seen as a good economic manager. Cheap imports put a damper on rises in the CPI.:D
Cheers,
Jim

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Doesn't do much for our trade deficit though. A good economic manager is someone who can get a single roomed school tuck shop built for less than it costs to build a two storied Mcmansion. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Parts of Australia are relatively tectonically stable but other parts of the continent are actually quite active (eg Adelaide and surrounds). There are also other areas that are not suitable for dumping radioactive or other hazardous waste..such as the large part of eastern and south western Australia that overlies the Great Artesian Basin. The British tests produced radioactive atmospheric material that found its way east and into the charge areas of the GAB. Years later wells on the weatern edge of the GAB registered spikes in tritium and other radioactive isotopes that correspond to the British tests. The GAB aquifer varies in depth with maximum depths of the aquifers occuring at around 3000m.

Salt mines are the best places to stick hazardous waste but unfortunately Australia doesnt have alot of such mines. Abandoned oil/gas wells that penetrated into granitic basement are one good place to store radioactive waste if it can be suitably processed....vitrifying the waste material prior to burial at depth (Synrock) is one process that has been developed. Incidentally the Synrock process is an Australian invention and was being tested at Lucas heights back in the late 80's.

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Very interesting. So, is Maralinga suitable? If so, with our combined expertises we could put together a strong business case. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Very interesting. So, is Maralinga suitable? If so, with our combined expertises we could put together a strong business case. :)

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Possibly but couldnt give you an informed answer without looking at detailed studies of the sbsurface geology of the area. It appears to lie off the western margins of the GAB but it would lie within one of the other sedimentary basins of similar age (Triassic-Cretaceous roughly).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwigeo

Doesn't do much for our trade deficit though. A good economic manager is someone who can get a single roomed school tuck shop built for less than it costs to build a two storied Mcmansion. :D

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Indeed. But I admit ignorance about the decision making process used in this instance. I would have assumed that once got a bucket of money from the Federal Government, it was up to the private school or the Education Department to go through a tender process or some other means to ensure that it was not being ripped off by the builders. We can give for granted that the builders would have milked the situation for all it was worth, but that's what a free market expects, doesn't it? When I was working as an internal auditor for the State, it was part of my job to do due diligence analyses to overcome these situations.

Anyway, we have veered away from the topic, if it was a genuine plea for the self funded retirees. I have a feeling that it was more of a political fishing expedition, though...:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Indeed. But I admit ignorance about the decision making process used in this instance. I would have assumed that once got a bucket of money from the Federal Government, it was up to the private school or the Education Department to go through a tender process or some other means to ensure that it was not being ripped off by the builders.

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Schools had very little say in what they got. A school in bad need of a proper assembly hall but already with an adequate tuck shop would be told they were going to get a new tuck shop or nothing.

This from The Australian..."...the Education Department pressured public school principals not to manage projects under the BER, warning them they could personally face $55,000 fines if injuries occurred, and schools that managed projects themselves could be "liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of extra building work. Instead, the department engaged seven managing contractors to handle the schools building scheme in NSW."

One school ended up with an 8 x 3m tuck shop that cost $650,000. Ive got a fully climate controlled 8 x 3m workshop and a fully lined double garage that only cost me $60,000 all up....it's big enough to serve as a tuck shop for a university. Something is seriously wrong here...

This thread seems to have run (or was pushed) off the original track somewhat, Maralinga, GAB and school tuck shops:doh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest

Enough to double everybody's entitlement to the age pension. :D

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Only if we taxed the companies that got the job properly instead of the "incentives" they get offered to stay here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

This thread seems to have run (or was pushed) off the original track somewhat, Maralinga, GAB and school tuck shops:doh:

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Noted and actioned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Shed

This thread seems to have run (or was pushed) off the original track somewhat, Maralinga, GAB and school tuck shops:doh:

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Gee's Didn't think the thread I started would create so much discussion.
any way keep it going, John

I've just changed Super companies. Mine was showing 'super' returns......from their investments in their own investments or something... all secret. Over 15% a year for many years.... looked good...
Suddenly, someone realised that their valuations on their own 'investments' were slippery, to me it seemed to be fraudulent overstatement of returns to get noticed in the market, but of course I was just probably p'...ed off.

All super companies fell, but this one managed a 'super' fall.
I dropped a large percentage, and worse the fund value stayed low. Although the stock market recovered..... their 'investment' stayed low and worthless.

6 weeks after my initial instruction, I received a letter stating that they needed another letter from my company stating that the deposit to them on ..... March 2010 was the last deposit, and if they didn't hear from me.... that they would conclude I didn't want to change.
A few nasty emails and I have at last finalised the change
I would have been better stocking up on VB.
I'm sticking to timber futures...

Regards
Greg