Tung Oil or........????

I was reading an article on wipe-on-finishes in the Australian Woodsmith the other night. Seems the author doesn't have a very high opinion of one of my favoured finishes being tung oil. His/her description of Tung Oil characteristics does not match my own experiences leading me to several possible conclusions:

1.) I am an Idiot
2.) The author is an Idiot
3.) Our opinions vary because of the products on the market.

My thinking is that 1.) & 3.) are considerably more likely than 2.) {and less likely to result in a law suit}:) . So I'd like to discard 1.) as this theory has been well tested and proven on a regular basis.

Coincidentally a BB member told me a lot of what is sold as "Tung Oil" contains polyurethane. Unfortunatley I don't have a can on hand and when I buy Tung Oil I just tend to grab a can off the shelf from any manufacturer I recognise and the price is decent. I have also never really read the can in detail other than the thinning/clean-up/safety etc stuff.

So am I being lead up the proverbial, wool pulled over eyes, and what is getting around as "Tung Oil" is actually a mix:( .

I noticed the author stated Pure Tung Oil several times. I thought Tung Oil was...well..Tung Oil, or is it a case of what Sol says?. Does anybody have a can with some fine print that states what is actually in it?.

Should I be looking for pure tung oil?... Has anybody seen Elvis latley? ;)

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I have also never really read the can in detail other than the thinning/clean-up/safety etc stuff.

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I think you will find that PURE Tung Oil has none of the above. It's a natural product and can be applied with your hands if your inclined. It's consistancy is like warmed honey. In fact I thin it with turps for first few coats.

What didn't the article like about it?

Gordon, Said it was only a small step up from linseed (which in my exp is crap) "Many coats, thin build, slight sheen". which is not my experience either. I thin a bit and use 3 to 4 coats, comes up beautiful. I must admit that any oil finish needs some maintenance.

The article just got me to thinking that what I had been using was not actually Pure tung oil.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by vsquizz

Gordon, Said it was only a small step up from linseed (which in my exp is crap) "Many coats, thin build, slight sheen". which is not my experience either. I thin a bit and use 3 to 4 coats, comes up beautiful. I must admit that any oil finish needs some maintenance.

The article just got me to thinking that what I had been using was not actually Pure tung oil.

Cheers

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The stuff I buy most definitely says pure tung oil on it - and I would say your experiences pretty much match mine. I thin 50% with white spirit for the first coat; around 20% for the second, then unthinned for 2 (sometimes 3) more coats. 24 hours between coats. And yes, it "comes up beautiful"!
;)

Maybe the guy who wrote the article was using some kind of cheap inferior mixed product - or maybe he has not used it at all and is relying on a 'friend of a friend'?

Pure tung oil is more expensive (in UK anyway) than the mixed varieties. I have not tried a mix yet - I like the finish that I'm getting.

Visquizz,

Best way to check it out is to read the label or find a copy of MSDS and check the contents. Most of the commercial “tung oils” have poly or alkyd resigns (up to 30% rest solvents) and no tung oil :eek: . They are the culprits.

Regards,

Theva

Thanks guys. I guess I better do some research before I buy some more.

I know I used Watyl awhile back. And I thought it was the beautiful soft brush I used and the magnificent brush off technique I developed:eek: . Its more likely the stuff was full of varnish it seems:confused: . Or maybe it wasn't and I end up back at 2.) and a lawsuit......Bugger .

So what brands are being used which appear to be Pure?.


Cheers

I purchased a 5L container of Sceneys Pure Tung oil for $53.00 about three weeks ago from PaintMobile here in Victoria. Give Sceney Chemicals a ring 0393117477 and see if they have a WA distributor. They put me onto Paintmobile.

Hex, Is there any particular reason you use white spirit?. I have been using turps, seems OK.

BTW - so nobody has seen Elvis??
Cheers

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Originally Posted by vsquizz

Hex, Is there any particular reason you use white spirit?. I have been using turps, seems OK.

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I doubt whether the thinning agent makes any difference. The thinner will evaporate anyway, and its main purpose is to get the first couple of coats to soak into the wood. I use white spirit because that's what I have in the shed!

I've got VB in my shed. Will that do?

If you use metho instead of the VB you will probably get to see Elvis:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by vsquizz

Gordon, Said it was only a small step up from linseed (which in my exp is crap) "Many coats, thin build, slight sheen". which is not my experience either.

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I'm about to use Boiled Linseed Oil on a Post Box, obviously external, would I be better off using Tung Oil or is that strictly interior OR should I be using something different?:confused:

The post box is clad in blue gum and I'm keen to make it look its best.

HH.

HH, I have not used Real Oil finishes exterior but I'd be a bit inclined to use one of the decking oils which are exterior rated for a longer lasting finish. You will have to re-coat at least 12 monthly anyway. Do a search for decking oils as there is a thread I was reading earlier today. I actually found it by Googling for Sceneys

BTW I am planning on doing the same with my LB. How bout a piccy. I was going to use marine ply and jarrah and finish with a marine varnish but I reckon an oil finish would look better.

Cheers

1) I have never used tung oil

2) I use a variant of VB regularly

3) I sometimes use metho

4) Interchanging point 3 and point 4 above results in not only seeing Elvis but having a full on jam session.



Hope this most serious contribution helps :D

Hi VSQUIZZ,
Have a look at this web site - it was one of the Google ads at the top of the page while I was reading your message. It seems coincidental but it might be useful for you.
aussieglen

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

Should be no prods with using tung oil outside. The good condition of the great wall of China is supposed to be because it was coated with tung oil.

Did the Chinese read the instructions on the can? or did some slippery merchant flog them some bogus Tung Oil with Poly in it?:)

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

Should be no prods with using tung oil outside. The good condition of the great wall of China is supposed to be because it was coated with tung oil.

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Interesting, a program on SBS a while back featured the great wall. The bricks are being worn faster than the mortar. The secret ingredient in the mortar was rice flour.

To get back on track, it is my understanding (perhaps flawed) that the same sorts of mixtures as VS is talking about being sold as "Danish oil" . I know they add poly to it and I think that it was really supposed to be based on tung oil. If that is the case then the "organoil Danish oil" may be worth a go. I doubt that that company would be adulterating its oil with much other than oil. I would guess that it already has carriers in it so does not need the diluting for the first few coats.

Organoil do a pure tung oil. Have you tried burnishing it with a orbital sander. You develop a slurry of wood dust and oil that fills pores and gaps and then "cooks" in place from the heat of the fiction. Very smooth finish and satin gloss. Can be further glossed up with a wax polish over the top. I tested this on a door tread that was a rush job.(carpet guy coming) and was very happy with the finish provided in ten minutes on vic ash. Big drink first then wait till soaked up then another drink followed by the burnishing actionwith sander and fine grit paper. You will end up with clogged paper but the finish for the time involved was a bargain imho. Dust doesn't stick and it is wearing quiet well. Difficult to apply on nonflat surfaces but great for figured wood as it fills well. I am only a novice but i love this for its ease of use and economy of time and money. No clean up apart from changing paper and tossing a rag into the bin or the jar for next time. No waiting time for drying and dust setting in the finish. Excess slurry removed with a cloth in a quick buff and done. Twenty minutes from go to whoa. Could let oil soak for longer between coats but very little work time. Many a carefully aplied finish of other types has been ruined while drying by dust or bugs etc :mad: . This is a great alternative in my opinion as a novice who prefers finishing jobs to "finishing jobs". ;)

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Originally Posted by Termite

I've got VB in my shed. Will that do?

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Bit of a waste - surely you would rather drink it. Pity you don't export it - way better than the Fosters p!ss that you foist on us. :D

Geez hex, what are we meant to do with the Fosters. You don't think any self respecting Aussie would be silly enough to actually drink it do ya! :eek:

Fosters, Fosters??? I did a search and I can't find any Tung Oil by Fosters,..Who or what is Fosters??

{another thread hijack/off topic..if you can't beat em:) }

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Originally Posted by PAH1

To get back on track, it is my understanding (perhaps flawed) that the same sorts of mixtures as VS is talking about being sold as "Danish oil" . I know they add poly to it and I think that it was really supposed to be based on tung oil. If that is the case then the "organoil Danish oil" may be worth a go. I doubt that that company would be adulterating its oil with much other than oil. I would guess that it already has carriers in it so does not need the diluting for the first few coats.

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To (attempt to!) stay back on track, I thought Danish Oil contained Linseed (plus additives). Maybe it's down to the brand.

There are many brands of pure tung oil out there. And they definitely say 'pure' (sometimes '100% pure') on the label. It should not be difficult to find some.

I'd be interested to hear if it makes any difference. You might find that the finish is not what you want. Tung oil does not dry very glossy (I guess the poly additives do that), but if you want more gloss, you can finish with wax after your coats of tung.

Actually pure tung oil can de made to be a very high gloss if used correctly and by someone who puts in the hard yards.

Some of the so called "pure tung oils" are diluted with turps or another solvent to give the manufacturer a few extra $'s in the pocket. If it's about the colour and thickness of honey then you can be pretty sure it is pure.

In very general terms, most of the Danish oils are a mix of linseed, poly & turps or linseed, spar varnish & turps, etc, etc. some of the better ones may have some tung oil in them. Basically they are all watered down poly.

Thanks Neil and everybody. Now I know what I'm looking for and I'll give the burnishing/ROS method a go.

Cheers and thanks again.

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Originally Posted by vsquizz

BTW I am planning on doing the same with my LB. How bout a piccy. I was going to use marine ply and jarrah and finish with a marine varnish but I reckon an oil finish would look better.

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Piccy attached. It's not finished yet and still needs more sanding, apologies for the crappy picture quality, I'll try to do better when it's finished. It's a marine ply carcass with Blue Glum tung n groove flooring on the outside. Trimming it up with some of the redder boards. The pitched roof hinges up to 90 degrees so you can get your mail out and the top will be for newspapers.

BTW, It's pretty heavy!!:eek:

HH.

HH, Looks great, I think I'll go the hinged arrangement you have.

I'd whip out the front and get a photie of my rusted out excuse for a mail receptacle but its night time:) . I told the neighbours it was a corrosion experiment but I* don't think they believed me:o

Thanks for the pic. Cheers ( I am again inspired to get on with the new shed)

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Originally Posted by ubeaut

Actually pure tung oil can de made to be a very high gloss if used correctly and by someone who puts in the hard yards.

Some of the so called "pure tung oils" are diluted with turps or another solvent to give the manufacturer a few extra $'s in the pocket. If it's about the colour and thickness of honey then you can be pretty sure it is pure.

In very general terms, most of the Danish oils are a mix of linseed, poly & turps or linseed, spar varnish & turps, etc, etc. some of the better ones may have some tung oil in them. Basically they are all watered down poly.

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And so when are we going to see the Ubeaut Pure Tung Oil on the market so I'm not paying top dollar for half a can of turps and poly?:D

Just a thought "beautung oil" ??

Cheers

This is the probable idiot who wrote the article to which you refer.
Just to clarify:
I personally find real pure Tung oil very tricky to apply, especially to harder timbers. Thinned with a suitable solvent, great.
I looked at the content of the shelves at our local paint shop and all cans purporting to be Tung oil actually were mixes, variable , unknown percentage of Tung. Tung is not cheap, so if you find a "cheap" can, be suspicious.
I have never been able to get a really good deep sheen from just the oil, however this is on furniture, not turned products. I would guess (note guess!) that if you cuold burnish it you would polymerize the oil and get a better sheen.
I wrote the article following a request after posting a picture of a 5 drawer chest on this board, so it only represents my experience, so just take it or leave it.
Now, having got that off my chest, does anyone out there know of a NSW supplier of Tung??? (pure of course) I have run out of my supply obtained overseas.
Jacko
p.s no hard feelings, all's cool
also I did have them include my email address in the article just so any comments would get to me---but??

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Originally Posted by jacko

This is the probable idiot who wrote the article to which you refer.
Just to clarify:
I personally find real pure Tung oil very tricky to apply, especially to harder timbers. Thinned with a suitable solvent, great.
I looked at the content of the shelves at our local paint shop and all cans purporting to be Tung oil actually were mixes, variable , unknown percentage of Tung. Tung is not cheap, so if you find a "cheap" can, be suspicious.
I have never been able to get a really good deep sheen from just the oil, however this is on furniture, not turned products. I would guess (note guess!) that if you cuold burnish it you would polymerize the oil and get a better sheen.
I wrote the article following a request after posting a picture of a 5 drawer chest on this board, so it only represents my experience, so just take it or leave it.
Now, having got that off my chest, does anyone out there know of a NSW supplier of Tung??? (pure of course) I have run out of my supply obtained overseas.
Jacko
p.s no hard feelings, all's cool
also I did have them include my email address in the article just so any comments would get to me---but??

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Jacko, from one probable idiot to another, thanks for posting and whilst I'm clearer on the subject in general I still have to experiment to reach a more informed opinion. Your experience still does not seem to match mine even allowing for some difference in our opinions of what is a good finish/what is easy to acheive etc.

Exactly on that subject, "a really good deep shine" is probably a good observation on your part as I know not of an oil finish which gives that really deep sheen such as with shellac. I look to oil finishes to give lustre, character and warmth, a natural finish is what I am after. I'm really keen to try the burnishing method. I must admit that I just like oil finishes, I like applying them and I like the look.

I'm cursing that I can't remember what brand of tung oil I did my jarrah window sills with 3 years ago. Thats what I have to research and that is what I think was missing from your article (variations between manufacturers)although it was probably not the place to bring it up. As I stated above somewhere, you mentioned "Pure" tung oil several times. My post and the object of my derision is that some of what is being marketed as "Tung Oil" is actually "Some Tung Oil with some solvents and other stuff". Thats the point of my starting this thread, to see how others experiences varied from yours and mine.

I thought your experience was well stated and as you mentioned "Pure" I got to thinking what I had been using wasn't.

I was well aware when I posted that the author would probably read this and stuck to the principles and spirit of this forum. I appreciate your response in the same manner. What is important is that your article forms part of my armoury and I'll take and leave parts of it as my experience develops.

I have been looking into Sceneys but have not yet tracked down some firm data. My local hardware store is awaiting a response from their supplier.

Can't help you in cockroach country with a supplier.

Cheers

Good luck with finding a supplier in Australia. There is sure to be one. But I felt it was worth point out that the US company whose link was provided earlier by aussieglen does ship internationally. They have pure Tung, reasonably priced too (as long as you go for the US Gallon option!), though the shipping obviously puts that up:

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

Just looking at the Timbecon cattledog. Tung Oil at 17.50 per litre, seems about right. Interesting to quote " "Used on its own it tends to be drab, particularly when used on darker timbers so other oils are usually added ot "lift" it and give the finnish a richer sheen. take a look at the chest of drawers i posted on the "picc'ys" forum a few months back and see if you think that this is the sort of finnish you are looking for.
Yours in humility
jacko

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Originally Posted by jacko

Interesting to quote " "Used on its own it tends to be drab, particularly when used on darker timbers so other oils are usually added ot "lift" it and give the finnish a richer sheen.Yours in humility
jacko

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Jacko, so that would be Dannish Oil then. No need for the added humbleness:D The mixing/blends you originally aptly described is fine.

What I'm at is, have I been a duffer when buying tung oil? and there is lots of additives which are disclosed or am I paying a good $ for something which is only part tung oil and this is not disclosed?. I suspect a bit of both. It follows that I may have been getting better results than you because of the mix I was using and which I thought was Pure.

I'll try and get some photos of my window ledges when I have some natural light.


Cheers

Here the piccy of my window ledge, done over 3 years ago and recoated only once after 6 months (lazy bugger). 3 coats, lightly sanded before the final coat.

The quality is not good but you get the drift I think. Had a look at the chesty as I have done before. Terrific finish. I wonder if some wax on my tung oil would get somewhere near that.


Cheers

Try some of you know who's "traditional wax". used it once post some Tung/cannubra and it did provide a lift
jacko

I just looked at photie and you can see all the bloody grooves from my old thicknesser:eek: . I guess I'd better fess up and buy some of that bloody wax then:) . I'll give these boards another coat of tung oil first. How long should I wait between the oil and the wax??

Jacko, does my result look like what you have acheived in the past with 3 coats of pure tung oil?

Cheers

Jacko, I bought some Tung Oil $15:50 a litre at 3D Paint & Colour in Belconnen, don't know if you have one in Batemans Bay. The brand name is XTROLL, doesn't say it is pure tung oil but it is like honey. XTROLL Global Pty Ltd,5 Delta St Geebung QLD 4034, 07 3865 1077. I have been experimenting with tung oil on bowls, thinned down 50% plus Terebine for the first coat which is applied and the bowl wet sanded. The next coat is 75% and rubbed on the next day. Next will be 100%, haven't got that far yet but I like the feel so far.
Cheers
Barry

I just went through lots of agony trying to discover all about "tung oil":


1. Most of what you buy is "oil-modified poly-urethane". It is basically a polymerised version of pure tung oil, the tung oil molecule attached to a urethane. Examples of these are Intergrain's Floor Seal (30-70 poly-tung), Cabot's Floorguard (40-60 poly-tung). This stuff goes on like polyurethane but you can also get the hand-rubbed finish by using the wet sanpaper method and wiping excess.

2. You can get "pure tung oil", example Feast Watson's China Wood Oil, which is not pure but pre-mixed with thinners.

Tung oils are meant for interiors. Not weatherproof.
I recently did my redgum mail box with a product called "Weatherproof Oil", manufacturer I will have to look up. That stuff worked fantastic, lasts a long time, easy to recoat etc etc. Goes on like linseed oil but dries to a non-tacky but softish finish that preserves that oiled look through wind and shine.

Don't use terebin on a bowl its not good for ya.

Vsquizz, I have never used 3 coats of pure Tung, always diluted for the first coats, then finally straight. However took me a lot of brawn to get a finnish, and while it looked good at the time, it dulled off rather quickly. With added other oils and waxes this does not seem to happen.
baz, thanks for the tip. I did try 3D here in the Bay, but all i got was blank looks, and "can't elp ye maite"
Guess even Belconnen has more infrastructure than we do here! Will contact them and see who they have as a local distributor. Thanks again
Jacko