Hard Shellac coverage +

I'm in the process of making a work bench and am considering using Hard Shellac to finish it, that or a Danish Oil followed by Haymes poly, my questions are....

What sort of coverage do you get from 500ml of HS?

Should I thin the HS (I'll be rubbing it on)?
If yes, how much?

How many coats are needed for a utility surface?

If Danish oil goes mostly into the timber and poly sits on top, where does HS fit in?


There that should do it for now.:)
I might even post some pics if people are interested.

Ben.

Ben, I don't think I would be using shellac on a work bench. Even a hard shellac will give you a very easily damaged surface. I would be inclined to either wax it, or oil and wax it, or just oil it. If you want a shiny surface for some reason, polyurethane would be a better bet than shellac, in my humble opinion.

Thanks Andrew, I'll keep that in mind. I havn't used the Hard Shellac before so I havn't got any experiance with it's durability.
While searching the subject I read a post by Neil where he said that "There are tables in restaurants all over Melbourne now that are finished with our Hard Shellac", suggesting that it can take quite a beating.

I worked out over night that I have a surface area of about 12sq meters to cover, and while I'm happy to stretch to two bottles of the stuff that still only totals 1 ltr and may be best saved for a more deserving preject. Which means in the end I may go with poly over danish (mmmm danish). I'll wait and see how the replys average out.

Ben.

I haven't used the Ubeaut hard shellac and defer completely to Neil's opinion of its appropriateness for the job. I would be interested to know how it goes, so please let me know how it stands up, if you remember.

Thanks.

G;day Been - Sorry I didn't get to this earlier but was off line for most of the day yesterday thanks to our ISP,

Everything with Hard Shellac (as with all shellacs) depends on the application process, however HS you need to at least thin 50/50 with meth before beginning. If you're rubbing )(as in french polish) there's enough to polish a couple of board room tables as it is thinned much more with shellac for multiple coats.

If you're brushing it then there should be plenty for your bench top, the same with spraying. However because manufacturers have no control over what an end user will do, how porous the timber is, how well the surface has been prepered, temperature at time of application and a whole heap of other stuff that'll affect the use, it's really hard to give a definitive answer.

In most instances I'd thin up to 4 parts metho to 1 of HS and even more.

HOWEVER. For a work bench I would probably prefer to use maybe an oil and finish it off with Traditional Wax a few weeks later, which cives good slip and helps with easier removal glue spills and drips, etc.

My all time favourite is to cover the bench top with tempered masonite then Use a couple of coats of Traditional Wax.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil :U

Thanks Neil, I'd been giving a bit of extra thought to an oil finish (spured on by Andrews posts), particularly from the ease of repair/maintinance angle. Not having a film finish to maintain seems like the way to go, but I would like a bit of a sheen to the surface, without hours of hard polishing, eg. flanel on brick (I've been reading my handbook :wink:)

Option 1, Howards Orange Tung Oil, EEE cream on swansdown mop, perhaps followed by Liberon Black Bison paste wax (the last two because thats what I already have).
Does anyone know if Liberon Black Bison wax has bees wax in it?

Option 2, Maloof/Danish oil mix with two parts oil to one part poly, perhaps again followed by EEE cream on swansdown mop, Liberon Black Bison paste wax.

I'm after something that does build up just a little and can be brought to a mild sheen. I'm seriously leaning towards option 1, after seeing this post by NewLou.

Timbers are Oregon, typical KD hardwood (Tas Oak, Vic Ash, Etc) and ply.



Neil, your tips on the use of hard shellac will come in handy, just at a latter date.:-

While I'm here, my Liberon wax can be quite hard to polish off after aplying (with calico) and leaving for 20 of 30 mins (then buffing off with old jumper), am I doing anytihng wrong?

Think it's made for colder climates than ours Ben.

Try polishing it off much earlier. Play around on some scrap.

Added: ubeaut Trad wax really is much better; Gilly Stephensons Cabinet Makers Wax is also good (harder than Trad Wax but takes more effort to apply). But if you've got the Liberon you might as well master it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rsser

Think it's made for colder climates than ours Ben.

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Hadn't thought of that rsser, thanks. The tin says leave for 20mins, more if possible, next time i'll give it 10 instead of 40.:-
As you say, i'll stick with it seeing as thats what I have, but when it runs out i'll try something else. I'm happy enough with the job it does meanwhile.

Rang Howards re.Tung Orange oil found that it was 70% tung 30% orange, so far so good, and that one ltr will cover 15sqm, lady on phone says that most of first ltr will be taken on first coat (not done all at once!) but that each coat after that would need about half what the first coat took (due to sealing etc) meaning 4ltrs for the seven coats NewLou used. They sell in 1, 2 and 5 ltrs, with 5 ltrs being 145$ + $20 P&H (no local stockists (I thought i'd seen the ugly bright orange tung in bunnys?)).
I've never done a project this big before, I've already used up most of my new Titebond3 on the big mortise and tennons and ply for the enclosed base and $165 for the finish was a bit of a supprise, due probably to ignorance.:o
All of a sudden home made danish oil is looking better.:D

Does the poly in danish oil form it's own coating on the surface or does it stay mixed with the oil and soak into the timber?


Ben.

Feast Watson make a nice product called "Fine Buffing Oil" which would do a lovely job on your bench. Apply it in a circular motion using a rag to really rub the stuff into the grain then buff it off in accordance with the dircetions on the can. You can then use your wax over it to give it a nice luster. I think you will be happy with the results if you go down that path.

Yeah, for a workbench, which is gunna get chopped up, I wouldn't obsess too much about the finish frankly.

A cheap solution (cough) would be to slop on coats of Boiled Linseed Oil. Flood, leave for 5 mins, wipe off, leave for a day, and repeat til it's clear that the grain is filled and the mixture is sitting on top.

An alt., 1/3 oil (eg. raw linseed, soybean or pure tung), 1/3 poly (spirit based), and 1/3 turps (or White Spirits if you want to be fussy).

I was thinking that the Orange Tung oil was going to be a low fuss finish...oil on wipe off, oil on wipe off, etc shine up with EEE and mop in drill.... easy. It's the price that put me off.:(

Yeah I think i'll go with a home made poly, oil, optional turps mix.
There seems to be two schools of thought on that one the maloof/danish 2/3rds oil 1/3 poly and the mix your've mentioned rsser oil, poly, turps.
I guess you could say the later is really 50/50 oil, poly thined with turps. The thinning having the effect of easing aplication, would the thining help the finish soak in further?

I've put a bit of work into the bench so far so i'll probably err on the nicer side of things.

Thanks for all the help so far guys, much appreciated.:2tsup:

Ben, I'm no expert.

I use Rustin's DO on most of my turnings and love the way it's easy to use, and pops the grain of most timbers. It's not esp. durable though. Have tried Organoil products and found them to be either a lot of work or to produce matt finishes. Quite like FW Scandanavian Oil and it's more durable than Rustins.

For recipes for home-made oil finishes, check out the Blue Mountains Woodturners' website, and also the Fine WoodWorking website (some articles free). FWW also did a test of oil finishes, which gave a run down on ingredients, and pronounced MiniMax wipe-on poly one of the best.

Best I can tell, an oil finish will have some kind of solvent, some kind of oil, and maybe a synthetic resin. The proportions will vary. The more solvent, the quicker the soaking but the more the coats, etc etc.

But all these distinctions will fade away as you put the marks of honest workmanship on your fine workbench.

I'd go with something similar to Ern's mix of 20 raw linseed, 40% poly (turpentine based), 40% mineral turps or as Ern said (White Spirits if you want to be fussy)

Apply as per Maloofs or any similar. Wait a week or too after the finaal application till there's no oil at all teft or felt on the surface then use the EEE. No real need to use a wax for a while. I'de leave the waxing for a few weeks or longer and then only if you really feel you need it.

Cheers - Neil :U

After a visit to my local paint store (Paint Right Kyabram), I've found them to be a very well equiped store stocking Haymes and Sceneys (tung oil, linseed oil, 100% IMS). Meaning I can get pure tung oil for ~$15 1ltr, ~$27 for 2ltrs, etc.
I rang Sceneys to find out what the catch was, they said they'd garantee it to be pure tung oil.:2tsup:. So my question is, are there any situations where linseed oil is better than tung oil?
What does the high proportion of turps do?

Still learning.:)

Ben.