A Different Perspective

I'm not a sparky and I don't have an axe to grind.

However, to me it's not a very big deal to do all types of single an double phase electrical work in my home. (I probably could do three phase, but I won't because of the lack of current knowlege.)

I just apply some of the things that I've learned in high school physics and a few electronics classes. I've observed sparkies working and talked to them.

At our BORGs we have layman's guides to the NEC (National Electrical Code). If there is any confusion I'll just pop the cover off of the breaker box and observe how things were done.

There was a recent post about down lights. Evidently, from the description provided, the poster was trying to add a non grounded fixture to a string of grounded down lights. To me, it is not a big mystery even without intimate knowlege of the color code standards in OZ. (If the fixture is non-conductive, the fixture can't be grounded and a 2 wire connection should be acceptable and to code.)

I sense that in OZ there is a general fear of electrons by home owners and as one gets near electrons in large numbers, the fear increases. I'm really surprised at the number of times that forum members suggest that a sparky be engaged. I guess what I'm asking, is this "engage a sparky" philosophy a regulatory thing or a union issue or just ordinary Mushroom theory? (Keep them in the dark and feed them cow pies.)

I keep thinking that if somebody sits down and writes an electricity book for the home owner, there could be a huge financial rewards. Like a lifetime supply of tools and timber.

It's illegal for a non qualified person to perform electrical work in Australia.

Not only that, but it can have serious insurance ramifications (ie you'll be uninsured) if your house burns down or somebody is injured due to illegally performed electrical work.

I realise that othe rcountries have looser standards , but that's just the way it is here.

Having said that, I'm sure that plenty of people do indeed wire up an extra power point/fitting on occasions.

rrich
It's the law.

You are not supposed to touch electrical matters with out the proper training and license.

Even giving advice on how to do it could lead to you getting sued if some thing went wrong. :C

That is why those of us who have an electronics background or are licensed to touch the stuff duck for cover and advise the use of a sparky.

Dave...
If you have to ask then get a sparky....

Rich,

Pretty much what the others said. We also use 240V which bites a bit more than your 110V.

Unfortunately some people think if they know the colour codes and wire them into the correct terminal everything will be OK.

However you know as well as I do that high resistance in a joint or a terminal with a bit of current flowing through it will heat up the joint/terminal. Proximity to other services and knowledge of how cables can be damaged are factors that cause more problems than getting the colour codes wrong.

Our insurance companies inspect all fires and if they see suspect cabling they will ask for a certificate form the sparky who did the job (so they can sue him) or they will refuse to pay out. If you have done the job yourself and even if it meets all regulations you are history if you haven't got a sparkies ticket.

Unfortunately over here, knowledge doesn't count just certificates. You can have a certificate and no knowledge and the law blesses you, however knowledge and no certificate gets you into hot water.

I have trained well over a hundred of sparkies in telecommunications and most of them have very little knowledge when it comes to basic electrical/electronic theory. They tend go on memory of regulations when it comes to current capacity of cables and circuits. That's what the regulatory people want and so the sparkies abide.

Sad isn't it.

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Originally Posted by rrich

but I won't because of the lack of current knowlege.

Thats Gold.....:U:roll:



At our BORGs

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Whats a BORG?

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Originally Posted by Wood Borer

Rich,

Pretty much what the others said. We also use 240V which bites a bit more than your 110V.

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I thought the amp draw was bigger with 110v, and isnt it the amps that kill?

Al :)

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Whats a BORG?



I thought the amp draw was bigger with 110v, and isnt it the amps that kill?

Al :)

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Al,

It is the current that flows through vital parts of your body that count and that current is only in the order of milliamps. The higher the voltage you apply to parts of your body the more current will flow through your body.

For example, a 240V circuit carrying 30 Amps will harm you just as much as a 240V circuit carrying 1 Amp.

You of all people should be extra careful wearing all that foil. The additional skin contact area will allow even more current to flow through your vital parts. :o :o :o

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Whats a BORG?

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US-speak for Home Depot (=Bunnings), i.e. a huge hardware store franchise that define standardly available tools and fittings for the home. A take-off on the Star Trek 'Borg' species (a race of cyborgs, or cybernetic organisms) whose goal was to take over all other species and assimilate them into the Borg Collective. Individuals within the Borg lost all individuality, and became part of a 'hive'-mind. Their catch-cry is: 'resistance is futile'.

See, never too old to learn, ya young whipper snipper...

Al :U

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Originally Posted by rrich

I sense that in OZ there is a general fear of electrons by home owners and as one gets near electrons in large numbers, the fear increases. I'm really surprised at the number of times that forum members suggest that a sparky be engaged. I guess what I'm asking, is this "engage a sparky" philosophy a regulatory thing or a union issue or just ordinary Mushroom theory? (Keep them in the dark and feed them cow pies.)

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Rich,

It is great to hear an "outsiders" view on our electrical situation. It is also interesting to see how quickly other posters will support the "call an electrician" creed and quote its "the law" without question. I do think this forum (or is it Australia) has a hang up about electricity. People run scared - even those who know something about electricity - and state "call an electrician".

Yet ask a question about gas, water, storm water, sewage, roofing - all covered by just as strict laws in Oz - and the replies come flooding in!

I cannot see what is wrong with allowing people to discuss, and understand, electrical matters just like we discuss and learn about any other topic? I can see someone replying with the "electricity is dangerous" augment, but statistics don't validate their concern. The forum seems to be completely oblivious dangerous of the advice provided on this forum on non-electrical matters, but hypersensitive to the perceived danger of electrical advice.

I think the regulations are there to protect a closed shop - it's time to question the validity of the regulations.

Its the law and is designed to protect everyone I guess.

As a non sparky I am happy to run wires through walls for the sparky to wire up, swap a bayonet fitting for a downlight by following the wiring diagrams on the packet, replace single powerpoints for double and stuff like that.

Anything more complicated and Ill pay for a sparky.

Just my 2volts. :)

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Originally Posted by chrisp

Yet ask a question about gas, water, storm water, sewage, roofing - all covered by just as strict laws in Oz - and the replies come flooding in!

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Hmmm... no... I'll beg to disagree with that. Gas is another one very few of us will touch. Like electricity, it's usually "call a gas-fitter."

The rest will generally cause discomforts at worst, but gas and electrons can be killers with just the smallest mistake. I don't think it has anything to do with "the law" or that we're afraid of being sued,etc. etc. It's more like these are subjects that if someone has to ask basic questions, they really shouldn't be playing with it in the first place!

(Now, when a more complex question comes up when the person obviously knows what they're talking about, those threads can be rather more involved and interesting! :wink:)

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Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

...if someone has to ask basic questions, they really shouldn't be playing with it in the first place!

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Now that's wisdom.:2tsup:

I guess the difference between a qualified sparky and someone who reckons he knows how to wire his house is that the sparky has at least shown that he knows how to do the job, and has had some formal training. It may not be a universal safeguard, but it is hopefully some protection.

Just because a layman is confident that he knows how to do a job, and even if he has read the 'layman's guide', there's no guarantee that he is really capable. I've seen many things done by handymen who reckoned they knew how to do a job (and done them myself) that were either incompetent or downright dangerous.

I would never attempt to install complicated electrical fittings and I think this where commonsense should prevail and the laws are in place in this country for good reason, however, its not difficult to change a power point or change the plug on a kitchen appliance (illegal in Aus) so if we want to obey the laws of the land, we pay $45 to have a licensed sparky change the plug. Maybe the laws should allow us to do simple electrical tasks like that

Where can we find out the statistics of electrocution/fires caused by non-qualified work, Oz Vs USA so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Hmmm... no... I'll beg to disagree with that. Gas is another one very few of us will touch. Like electricity, it's usually "call a gas-fitter."

The rest will generally cause discomforts at worst, but gas and electrons can be killers with just the smallest mistake. I don't think it has anything to do with "the law" or that we're afraid of being sued,etc. etc. It's more like these are subjects that if someone has to ask basic questions, they really shouldn't be playing with it in the first place!

(Now, when a more complex question comes up when the person obviously knows what they're talking about, those threads can be rather more involved and interesting! :wink:)

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Ditto with structural engineering. That's why I never (or at least rarely) give any hard numbers; concepts OK.

Joe