To seal or not to seal?

hi there,
This is my first time on the forum, and already have learnt heaps from all your experiences, so thanks.
I have a few questions, but first I should let you know what I mainly work on for my projects. I have just started making old style skateboards, using vertically laminated hardwoods of varying species, like mahogany, kwila, rock maple, silver ash etc, and need a fairly hard wearing finish, as some are actually used for skating.
I have been trying a variety of products, hoping to find the perfect one.
From Feast Watson Floorproof to U beaut EEE followed by shellawax.
The EEE is a VERY nice finish, for a display board, but doesn't offer much real protection for the ones that are actually used.
I use a Ryobi buffer polisher with a lambswool pad to polish the EEE, which is fine, but how do I clean the very sticky residue left on the lambswool pad. These are too xxxy to buy each time, so any tips there would be appreciated.
Hence the trial with the F&W Floorproof. As I may lay up Silver Ash with Kwila, I chose to seal the whole thing with Proofseal, then applied the Floorproof poly.
A couple of weeks later, as I was showing off my very glossy finish,it slipped from my hands and hit the edge of my workbench, which I expected the piece to handle with ease, but to my horror, did not.
The impact site appeared like frosted glass, and looked to have come away from the timber surface. One flick with my fingernail, and it peeled off like skin. Straight back to bare wood. It just kept peeling.
What did I do wrong?
All surfaces were clean prior to coating, and fine sanded to 1200grit.

" The EEE is a VERY nice finish, for a display board, but doesn't offer much real protection for the ones that are actually used.
I use a Ryobi buffer polisher with a lambswool pad to polish the EEE, which is fine, but how do I clean the very sticky residue left on the lambswool pad. These are too xxxy to buy each time, so any tips there would be appreciated."

Thats because EEE its not a finish its a polish, you can keep using the lambswool pad for EEE no need to clean. But turps will clean the most of it off, once you get it visably clean several washes with strong detergent in very hot water.

I dont think you'll find a finish that will handle the abuse a skateboard takes... probably the most abused piece of wood known to man kind!
A coating of epoxy resin would be tough but still would be damaged badly on the the 1st use... liberal use of deck grip tape is about all there is!

Harry 72,
Thanks for the tips on the EEE cleaning of the lambswool pad. I believe you can also polish with high density foam pads. Any experience with these on timber. They are used in the surfboard industry for final finish coat polishing. As for the grip tape idea .... I generally supply them without tape, but for those who need it, then they are offered a DIY option, but it seems a shame to cover this beautiful timber.
Any clues as to why the Proofseal peeled off?
Thanks again, Shane
NSW

It peeled of because its a polyurethane, sits on the surface it doesnt soak into the wood like an true oil finish.
You could try a 2 pack poly but it will still be the same, it'll scratch like buggery, it'll still peel once a scratch or a chip goes completely through it if water gets under it.

Yep you can polish with those automotive pads and compounds... just dont use any product that contains silicon.

"but it seems a shame to cover this beautiful timber"
Thats true, these would make great trophies for comps tho, wouldnt matter about the finish then(get the trucks chromed).

Maybe it'll be better to use an oil finish you wont get the high gloss(F&W China oil), can be waxed for a low sheen and is very easily repaired and definitely will not peel.

Harry72,
spoke to the guys at Feast & Watson/Orica today, and quite simply,
I had sanded , too fine a finish (800), before applying the Proofseal.
The surface was just too smooth for the sealer to grab.
They recommended no finer than 320 grit, and have assured me it 'll stick.
I will give this a go tommorrow.
Thanks,
Shane, NSW

If thats the case might as well use 60grit give it a real key to bind around... after the first ollie into grind trick it wont matter.https://www.ubeaut.biz/approval.gif <table style="border-collapse: collapse; 24px; 42px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td align="left" height="60" width="180">
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</td></tr></tbody></table>They're right poly will grab a surface if its rough enough, 320 is quite smooth I finish around 180grit, still can easily get a scraper under it and remove it like theres a heatgun on it.(fresh paint)
Still reckon a oil and wax finish is the way to go, its very easy to fix compared to poly.

60 grit is probably a bit too far for me. I did a couple yesterday, and I stopped sanding at 220 grit, ...... hopefully that will grab. I'm not too worried about ollie into grind tricks, and that sort of thing. My boards are between 36 and 48 inches long, and are'nt designed for that sort of riding.
They're mainly sold to collectors, or are used for cruising, and downhill competitions. However, they're going to get the odd knock into a kerb, for sure. I'm talking to a tech guy in England at the moment about an automotive clear, currently being used for finishing Guitar bodies, with very good results.

ask him to give a guitar a whack with a bit of concrete.. let you know the results.:D:D

I'd go with Harry's earlier advice and use an oil finish and wax.. thats a beautiful board you've made and it'd be a shame to cover it with a plastic coating.
I often use an oil/poly/turps mix (equal parts of each) as a no fuss finish.. simply soak the wood in the mix for a few mins and wipe back with cotton rag.

its a fairly hard wearing finish.. it hardens a bit like poly but generally looks like an oil finish after a couple of coats and plenty of drying time it takes a buffing quite well... even use a bit of your eee while buffing to even the timber out into a nice even sheen.

give it a go on a scrap piece... or alternitavely try it on a really nice board and send it to me.. I'll let you know how it wears:D

oh.. in the mix I've used boiled linseed for decent results but I've heard other oils can work equally as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slow6

ask him to give a guitar a whack with a bit of concrete.. let you know the results.:D:D

I'd go with Harry's earlier advice and use an oil finish and wax.. thats a beautiful board you've made and it'd be a shame to cover it with a plastic coating.
I often use an oil/poly/turps mix (equal parts of each) as a no fuss finish.. simply soak the wood in the mix for a few mins and wipe back with cotton rag.

its a fairly hard wearing finish.. it hardens a bit like poly but generally looks like an oil finish after a couple of coats and plenty of drying time it takes a buffing quite well... even use a bit of your eee while buffing to even the timber out into a nice even sheen.

give it a go on a scrap piece... or alternitavely try it on a really nice board and send it to me.. I'll let you know how it wears:D

oh.. in the mix I've used boiled linseed for decent results but I've heard other oils can work equally as well.

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Hey Slow6,
I like your sense of humour. Dodging concrete can be a bit of an ask, when at times it's inevitable you get out of control riding these things.
With the new trucks, wheels and bearings available these days, these things get up speed like nothin' else.
Your "mix" sounds like it's certainly worth a try. Can you be a bit more specific with the ingredients. What type of oil, and which brand of poly.
Currently have Feast & Watson Floorproof single pack poly.and it's relative thinner...... whatever it's called. Damn expensive as well at $17 a litre.
Another reason to quit this routine I'm in. Just cleaning a pure bristle brush out, costs me about $2-3.
Boiled linseed ??? Did I mention, I'm a TOTAL newbie to woodwork, so forgive me if I'm not up to speed on all this. Do I boil it? Use it warm? What? Sorry for the dumb questions.

BLO(boiled linseed oil)can be brought, it'll be right next to the linseed oil! https://www.ubeaut.biz/emotional.gif

Paint brought by the litre will be the most exspensive way, a 4 litre tin is normaly 1/2 the price by volume.
Why is it costing $2~3 to clean your brushes out, your not use their brand of thinners are you... its turps!(and a few additives that are not needed for clean up)

Your say your boards are for salom work, what if you made a alloy surround for them as a add on?
https://www.ubeaut.biz/idea.gifCut a small 3mm wide by say 12mm deep slot all the way around and then fashion some 15x3mm aluminum strip to fit, you'd need to make some sort of jig to bend it to shape... maybe with some heat to help.
It'd look pretty trick https://www.ubeaut.biz/cool3.gif

F&W Floorproof and Turps do not mix. Tried it the other day. The poly just turned into big lumps. The stuff I have to use for clean up is called Eversol
solvent. A slightly cheaper alternative to Floorproof's dedicated thinner.
As for the 1 litre tins.... I know it's not economical, but I'm not buyin' 4 litre tins 'til I know which product I going to end up using as my final finish.
Hopefully after all this testing, I will know that finish very soon.

Thats unusual never heard of that before... single pack poly that dont mix with turps, must be a lacquer then which needs a alcohol/hydocarbon based solvent.

Just checked out their website, yep she's a poly!
Whats the go there... " this product contains low levels of isocyanate" I presume thats why, its used as a hardener(I think?) 7008 is the same Wattyl say you can mix 50/50 metho with their solvent for clean up.