Card scrapers vs random orbital sanders.

Card scrapers vs expensive electric random orbital sanders.
What are thoughts and preferences?
With the right hook card scraping as good or better than a power sander?

WH, I have an old Festo (old but still a superior performer - just heavier ... which can be an advantage), forerunner of the Festool ETS 150/5, as well as a modern Mirka Ceros. Both use Abranet sanding mesh, which is superb for dust collection (and hugely aid the sanding result). These are both really great sanders.

The issue with sanding is not just that it is dusty (mine are used with a Festool CT26E, which is one of the best vacuum cleaners, and works very well), but that you need to go up the grits, which takes time re-doing and redoing the work. 120/240/400 ... grits. Even then, a sanded surface is not "clear" and essentially muddies the water (so to speak).

By contrast, a handplane leaves a finish that the best sander cannot match, and in a fraction of the time. A decent smoother can leaving a burnished finish that reflects like a mirror.

A cabinet (card) scraper is somewhere between the best sander (say, 1200 grit) and a smoother (say 12000 grit).

The advantage of a sander is that it is easiest to use. The danger is that it will round over edges, where a handplane leaves a crisp finish. The cabinet scraper can work small areas, and is sometimes the only way to smooth tear-out prone surfaces.

Scraping Jarrah ..

https://i.postimg.cc/QdVy2gzF/Scrapi...psjhnogkss.jpg

Shaping a curve with a custom scraper ...

https://i.postimg.cc/kXwr3gXp/1_zpspr2v0uh1.jpg

Horses for courses.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I only use an ROS when producing a burnished oil finish; I prefer a planed finish on softwoods and either a planed or scraped surface on hardwoods. As well as card scrapers I use a Record 080 cabinet scraper and my favourite plane of all time; a Stanley 112 scraper plane. I’ve recently acquired a Veritas scraper plane and will be comparing the two with the aim of passing one of them on.

Here’s some recent shots of a No.3 smoother on a scrap of redgum:
Attachment 500746 Attachment 500747 Attachment 500748

A Stanley 80 cabinet scraper:
Attachment 500749

And my 112; the light was a bit rubbish but you can make out the reflection of the sawhorse legs.
Attachment 500750 Attachment 500751 Attachment 500752 Attachment 500753

I HATE sanders! At the Bundy Woodworkers Guild we have a large assembly and finishing workbench that is fairly “bouncy” so that when someone is using a sander the bench resonates and amplifies the dull, soul-sapping drone… :((:((:((

Power sander for me. If history had power sanders then that is what they would have used.

Love my Festool ROS150 and the Mirka Ceros sanders, with the new mesh sandpapers they are fan-tas-tic.

Though, Ill say, I bought a Veritas low angle smoother by mistake. It was YEARS ago from Axminster. It was on special and I grabbed it without thinking, it was a mistake as I was thinking it was the Jack. I lamented that and left it on the shelf for years and years.... untouched and unloved. It was (and still is) my only new Veritas purchase and my only new hand plane.

I was, I admit, addicted to power tools.

Now however the situation is reversed. I "found" hand tools and suddenly my eyes were opened to the untold glories of that old (but new) unloved smoother. NOW it is one of my tools of choice. I think its the bees knees and bless the day I bought it.

Isn't that a nice story! :) :)

Reflections from a Veritas BU Smoother. Mahogany and Hard Maple ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...l_265ca3da.jpg

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...ml_3228d83.jpg

Try achieving that with a sander :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have a Festool ETS150/5 which I use for prep work (with Abranet mesh and a CT26E vac). However, as all of my work is boxes and all are either fully or partly veneered I never use a power sander for finishing - too much risk of sanding through the 0.6mm veneer.

For finishing I generally use a card scraper (although I've recently bought a Lie-Nielsen 112 and a 212). Decently sharpened the card scraper produces a fine plane-like shaving:

Attachment 500763

Attachment 500764


I find scrapers work well with burr veneers and inlay banding, but if I were making larger projects I'm sure I'd get more use from the ROS. As Derek says, horses for courses.


Best regards,

Brian

PS Here are the new (new to me) LN112 and 212:

Attachment 500765Attachment 500766

Thanks everyone.
The idea for this Poll came to me an 1 or 2 hours after I purchased a brand new older model ROS65VC-5 Bosch random orbital sander with an orbit radius of 5/64" or 2 mm. Whoops.
I fully agree about card scrapers being the better choice for price, quality and ease of use and no electricity required. Its tough to beat that.
I have noticed in the past that hand held card scraping is easier for me to see what's actually happening the finish. I finally purchased a Veritas burnishing tool with the dial built in for precision. Also a Veritas file holder to joint the scraper edge perfectly.
I will however keep the clearance priced ($151.79 tax total and all after discounts) Bosch ROS65VC-5 random orbital sander I purchased yesterday.
Personally. I just don't believe in purchasing and opening a sealed product package and then returning a perfectly functioning tool even if it is brand new and un-used.
Plus the newer replacement will be far out of my budget $269.99 USD before taxes.
It will be used when my arthritis in my arms, hands and low back flare up.
I will definitely use it as needed for larger projects like plywood work benches and storage shelves picnic tables and such.
What I don't like about power tools is when the parts become obsolete too soon.
Card scrapers won't become obsolete if cared for to avoid rust and pitting.
Anyhow for those interested in my research.
I basically looked to see what sander parts and part numbers are currently available and which may identical.
I dug deep into the parts lists of 3 sanders similar in appearance but not 100% identical.
(Disclaimer: The part list and part number differences I noticed may not be 100% accurate because my sander's voltage is 120 V).
The newer GEX34-6N VS ROS65VC-5 differences, armature, backing pad, contact strap, name plate and fan.
The ROS65VC-5 VS ROS65VC-6 and one has a suppressor box.
I ordered some wear and tear parts ahead of time.
5" Backing pads and 2 friction rings. That should keep the sander and I happy for awhile.

There are places where a powered sander is required.

Bulk work. Big projects. Chopping boards, things that don't need an ultra-fine finish.

I think most of the people here have it right, scrapers and smoothers are excellent, but I wouldn't want to do a table with them :)

If the job is small and fine with veneers, inlay and stringing like a box, then scrapers are fantastic - if not a necessity.


On ROS, a 2mm is excellent. It is a fine circle. It will give you a fine finish.

FWIW I am not aware how to use a plane, including a scraper plane, on a double curved surface.


I know you can scrape such a surface.


If you are dealing with a really big surface electric assistance can be welcom.


Personally I wouldn't want to have to choose one or another. Right tool for the job at hand.


2c