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Hello. Im staining ply with water based stain and looking for a pre stain to reduce the blotchiness. I've experimented with the old fashioned black tea. Now want to try Shellac as its been suggested. Unfortunately can't get Minwax pre conditioner in Australia.
Has anyone tried shellac as a pre stain? Im deciding between hard shellac and white dewaxed shellac.
Thanks
When you say pre-stain do you mean pre-seal? Or are you wanting to add colour to the shellac as well?
:doh: Sorry missed this earlier.
Shellac as a pre stain isn't the best as the shellac will stop the stain dye from penetrating into the surface of the work.
However U-Beaut White Shellac (dewaxed) is but it either needs to be cut 1 part shellac 8-10parts ethanol (59-100% Industrial Methylated Spirits) and this will give you a sanding sealer. Or you can just buy U-Beat premixed Sanding Sealer which is identical to the above. If you have any out of date Dewaxed white Shellac you can mic it down as above and use it as a sealer for years to come instead of throwing it out.
To use it:
- Sand the work up to 800 grit
- Wipe a coat coat of the sealer or weak white dewaxed shellac over the surface. Don't scrub at it just 1 wipe over the surface will do nicely.
- Allow this coat to dry for an hour or until it feels dry to the touch the longer you leave it the better.
- That coat of sealer will raise any torn grain left after the sanding and make it stand up and go brittle.
- Once it is dry wipe over the surface with 1200 grit (just a wipe do not sand or you may rise more grain).
- Wipe the surface over with a clean soft cloth to remove any surface dust that may be left on the work.
- You can now apply water dye/water stain, or turpentine stain. Not alcohol based stain.
- Water dye will be allowed to penetrate the surface of the work without raising the grain or going blotchy.
- Regular turpentine based stains will penetrate the surface and sit on top for an even coat.
- Alcohol base dye/stain may work but in most instances will mix with any remaining sealer and end up a yucky mess.
Bit more on stain and finishes;
- If you are using shellac or another alcohol based finish you can stain with water dye/stain or turps based stain. Do not use alcohol stain/dye as it will be pulled off the surface by the alcohol in the shellac and alcohol based finish or bleed into spray.
- Do not use water based finish over water dye or water based stain for the same reason as above.
- You can use turps based Poly etc over water dye.
- In short... Finish should ideally be incompatible with the dye/stain used. Water dye goes well under everything but not water based finishes. Alcohol dye don't use alcohol based finish.... Etc, etc, etc.
Footnote: White Shellac (DEWAXED) is by far the best to use as it can be sanded without clogging of abrasive is with regular waxy shellac, and it won't change the colour of the timber any more than wetting it with water or metho.
Hope this isn't to confusing and is of some help, even though it's probably way too late for lilmis who originally asked for help.
Cheers - Neil
PS Sorry for the blatant plug for U-Beaut products.
Don't bother reporting it as I already got permission from Admin... :rotfl:
NEIL better late than never!! Thanks so much for all your helpful information. I in fact did purchase U-Beaut White De Waxed Hard Shellac!! Will be using it this week for first time, so you answered my concern about the mix ratio. Perfect timing. Thanks :)