Spirit stains for touch up and shellac

When touching up scratches, woodfilller etc. with spirit stains, I want to “set” the stain before using shellac as it tends to dissolve/lift the stain material if brushing or rubbing on the shellac . When Zinsser spray shellac was available, that seemed to work as you could lay down a number of light coats and there was no brushing/ rubbing.
Apparently, some people use a nitro cellulose spray to set stains and dyes before using shellac.
What are other people’s thoughts please? If you use a lacquer, what brand do you use before using shellac?

When I restored my gramophone recently I sprayed 1 pound cut super blonde shellac on with an airbrush. I used Feast Watson Prooftint stains to touch up the timber prior to spraying and I didn't see any bleeding of the stain.

Thats what I found with the spray shellac as well. However Zinsser no longer make the spray shellac and I don’t have a spray gun or compressor:((

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lappa

When touching up scratches, woodfilller etc. with spirit stains, I want to “set” the stain before using shellac as it tends to dissolve/lift the stain material if brushing or rubbing on the shellac .

---

Spirit stains, The type that come as a dry powder and get mixed to what ever use you need get some shellac mixed in as well . That sets them for any later coatings . Chrisodine , Bismark Brown , Spirit Black , Auramine, Magenta , Green something or other, Methyl Blue .

If You are touching out filler patches, timber patches or scratches You either dip into a pre mixed bottle of some strong spirit colour mixed with metho only , placing a drop or three into a mixing tray , then add some ocher or oxide brown or yellow if it needs to be more than just a see through colour , and at the same time dip into some shellac mix to give it the body it needs . If its a scratch on the base of a cabinet in amongst some heavily built up coating of shellac it can be mixed with a thick shellac . Its a three way balancing act. Takes a little practice but covers just about anything you need to do.
If You want to get it smooth and re polish over the top and make it disappear under an even shine it needs a small amount of shellac just to hold it so later coats cover it up . Methylated spirits is the the only Spirit mixed with those stains . Some of them mix with other things like water or what ever else . Metho is the most usefull in furniture most of the time . Doing this right is how a pale side of a chest of drawers could be brought up to match the darker front exactly . Or a lighter drawer front that may have needed stripping and re doing for some reason . The initial staining of the wood is sent in the right direction and sealed in , later coloring can fine tune it closer while polishing .

Pre mixed bought in a tin colours from a shop are not what I think of as spirit stains . Ive only ever seen them mixed with things like mineral turps or thinners of some type . Not Methylated Spirits. Meant for staining raw wood. The colours I mentioned above could stain raw wood as well though .

Rob

Thanks. The spirit stains I use are Feast Watson spirit stains which are diluted with metho. Yet to find a supplier who has a reasonable range of pigments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lappa

Thanks. The spirit stains I use are Feast Watson spirit stains which are diluted with metho. Yet to find a supplier who has a reasonable range of pigments.

---

I’ve never used Feast and Watson . If it’s metho based though , just add shellac to give it some setting power .

The problem is when you brush or wipe the next coat of shellac over the colour stain (which is metho based) it “dissolves” the colour. When I could spray thin coats of shellac over it with zinsser spay shellac, the colour got locked under the multiple spray coats because there was no brushing or rubbing action.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lappa

The problem is when you brush or wipe the next coat of shellac over the colour stain (which is metho based) it “dissolves” the colour. When I could spray thin coats of shellac over it with zinsser spay shellac, the colour got locked under the multiple spray coats because there was no brushing or rubbing action.

---

Yeah I get that . If you add some shellac to the stain the shellac will make it set harder so it wont wipe off when you re coat.
Its the same with water colours . Add water based glue and it tempers the colour . Makes it set .

You would be better off with the real deal colours though and not a stain . You could mix to what ever strength you need. If the F&W is metho based it will work with adding shellac.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lappa

Yet to find a supplier who has a reasonable range of pigments.

---

Ask here.

Graeme Brown Antiques

Look on page 62 3 4 and 65.

Some of these are discontinued . If you ring and ask about them you'll speak to Justin . Tell him your from the forum and Rob told you to ring .

Rob

I have tried an oil-based stain, in fact, it is just a tube from riot art. A little bit goes a long way, thinned with white spirit. It doesn't interfere with shellac.
I'm not sure if this sanding sealer will work, since its waterborne, you might be able to brush it or rub it.

Thanks. I’d read about using oil based stains but didn’t know where to buy them in small amounts. Thanks for the info. I will give them a go.