Help! Is there a way to fix this?

I'm in the process of renovating and installed a blackbutt frame to transition from one room to the next (see pic 1)

Now please bear with me, I am worried that I may have ruined the timber due to my lack of knowledge of what to do and I am hoping to get some assistance to restore this piece the best I can to get the best possible finish.

I applied two coats of this primer (with a light sand before each coat) to help prevent against warping:
Timber Primer | Wood Preserver, For Priming New Timber

We wanted a deeper rich glossier finish so it would stand out nicely against the brick work and floor so I applied a stain and varnish
Cabots Stain Varnish Water Based

I tested it on an offcut and it looked fine, was happy with the result so had a go at the timber frame however unfortunately applying the stain to the larger peice was much more difficult than I had realised and the result looks terrible! It looks uneven and caked on!

What should I do now to hopefully get this looking good?! Any help would be greatly appreciated

(PS. browsing through the site has made me want to really get into woodworking and learn as much as I can!).

Attachment 465544Attachment 465545

Oh boy...this isn't going to be fun... :no:

First thing I'd do is throw the 2-in-1 stain/varnish in the bin; it's a shortcut product and shortcuts are almost always a compromise. I made the same mistake using it many years ago.

The timber primer is also unnecessary, IMO. Having a look at the blurb on their site "Timber Primer has added water repellency and inhibits mould growth, making it perfect for use on exterior timber or interior damp areas (such as bathrooms)." Your hallway is neither exterior, nor a damp area, so I see no reason to apply it.

As for salvaging what's there, I'd be sanding it ALL off and applying a stain directly to the timber (such as Feast Watson Prooftint), then finishing with a clear varnish on top.

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Originally Posted by dstama

What should I do now to hopefully get this looking good?! Any help would be greatly appreciated

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The Cabots water based clear finish I was playing with today went askew when I applied, after it was dry a water based stain over the top . I was experimenting with a method I normally do over a dry oil based sealer . Now to my surprise it bonded with the water based cabots and set with a very messy ugly result. Becoming one .
Basically I had to strip and start again . Ive had to do this before with another experiment and the Cabots, and found that metho on coarse steel wool rubbed in circles keeping it wet washes it into a wet jam easy . It re spreads the stain and if you keep it wet and not let the metho dry off you can attack with a rag and mop it off at the right time . Watch you not getting steel wool particles stuck in the grain . Use fresh strong stuff not stuff at its life's end that's turning into steel particles. Then re stain and apply a clear .

Or try tipping a small amount of your mixed Cabots stain and finish into a separate tin and thin it down with some water so when you apply you get an even wet all at once to the complete section of wood . Keep it wet and blend it off straight with a neatly folded rag lightly wiping it with the grain . You don't want to weaken the colour beyond it being useful as well.

Try that and as a last option sand off the remains of the stain / finish after getting most off with the metho soloution . If you still need it all gone .

Rob

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Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Oh boy...this isn't going to be fun... :no:

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No it won't be! It probably would be fun if it wasn't already up and installed and could play around with it... ahh well, a good way to learn I suppose!

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Originally Posted by elanjacobs

First thing I'd do is throw the 2-in-1 stain/varnish in the bin; it's a shortcut product and shortcuts are almost always a compromise. I made the same mistake using it many years ago.

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Yep, will go straight into the bin! Wish I knew that earlier lol

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Originally Posted by elanjacobs

The timber primer is also unnecessary, IMO. Having a look at the blurb on their site "Timber Primer has added water repellency and inhibits mould growth, making it perfect for use on exterior timber or interior damp areas (such as bathrooms)." Your hallway is neither exterior, nor a damp area, so I see no reason to apply it.

As for salvaging what's there, I'd be sanding it ALL off and applying a stain directly to the timber (such as Feast Watson Prooftint), then finishing with a clear varnish on top.

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The reason I bought it was to help prevent further warping. The piece of timber had warped slightly and was led to believe this product would help prevent more movement.

How much thickness do you think sanding will take off? I assume sanding by hand rather than using a small orbital sander is the way to go?

Thank you very much for your thoughts and reply

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Originally Posted by auscab

The Cabots water based clear finish I was playing with today went askew when I applied, after it was dry a water based stain over the top . I was experimenting with a method I normally do over a dry oil based sealer . Now to my surprise it bonded with the water based cabots and set with a very messy ugly result. Becoming one .
Basically I had to strip and start again . Ive had to do this before with another experiment and the Cabots, and found that metho on coarse steel wool rubbed in circles keeping it wet washes it into a wet jam easy . It re spreads the stain and if you keep it wet and not let the metho dry off you can attack with a rag and mop it off at the right time . Watch you not getting steel wool particles stuck in the grain . Use fresh strong stuff not stuff at its life's end that's turning into steel particles. Then re stain and apply a clear .

Or try tipping a small amount of your mixed Cabots stain and finish into a separate tin and thin it down with some water so when you apply you get an even wet all at once to the complete section of wood . Keep it wet and blend it off straight with a neatly folded rag lightly wiping it with the grain . You don't want to weaken the colour beyond it being useful as well.

Try that and as a last option sand off the remains of the stain / finish after getting most off with the metho soloution . If you still need it all gone .

Rob

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Ok thanks for this. I might give the metho option a try and then see how it looks and sand it further if need be. Or should I just sand it right away?

Once all said and done I don't think I will try the Cabo product again lol I think I am scarred now lol

I also wonder if part of the problem may be because I used an oil based primer but a water based stain

I would also investigate the use of paint stripper and steel wool to rub off the varnish, followed by rinsing it with methylated spirit.

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Originally Posted by dstama

Or should I just sand it right away?

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Try it if you want to see what hard work is like . Finishes are not normally sanded off, their washed off first then the wood is sanded. If you want it lighter than what you end up after stripping then sand .

If its very thin you may not find it as hard but its not the normal way to do it with woodwork . Any finish clogs paper up , stops it working .
If you did really want sanding to work You've either got to keep running water over it to wash the sanded material away or hit it with a disk sander and very coarse paper . That's sometimes done on car body work like that I think but it pretty much stops at bright steel . It'll just chew through wood wrecking it .

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Originally Posted by dstama

I also wonder if part of the problem may be because I used an oil based primer but a water based stain

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General rule is don't mix and match.

I wouldn't ever use a stain and varnish for anything like that, and never waterbased for a door frame. Not really sure what the primer is, but I've not ever used it under a stain or varnish. And from experience, no surface coat is going to save from warping. Ever.

Heat gun or stripper, then sand away as much as you can, ideally back to bare wood. Then use a spirit based stain, probably wiped on with a rag - important you follow the instructions on the tin, a lot need to wiped off almost immediately. You may want to practice on some largish offcuts/plywood to get a feel for technique, and see what happens if you let it soak in too long.

Thanks everyone for your help.
I spent the good part of the last few days stripping it back using the metho method.

It hasn't been fun but it's worked so I'm happy with that!

Here are a few pics showing the progress

IMG-20191212-173429 — imgbb.com
IMG-20191212-161504 — imgbb.com

Now, I'd love some thoughts on the best way to keep the natural look, bring out the grain by make it more vibrant?

Would a Danish or Tung oil be the way to go?

I haven't used it myself, but I saw pictures of another former using a two part oil mix. And it looked real nice. Try looking in the finishing forum. The link is Hard wax oil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dstama

Thanks everyone for your help.
I spent the good part of the last few days stripping it back using the metho method.

It hasn't been fun but it's worked so I'm happy with that!

Here are a few pics showing the progress

IMG-20191212-173429 — imgbb.com
IMG-20191212-161504 — imgbb.com

Now, I'd love some thoughts on the best way to keep the natural look, bring out the grain by make it more vibrant?

Would a Danish or Tung oil be the way to go?

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Yes, you can use either but they take a while to dry.

You say you want to keep the natural look yet you went ahead and applied a stain thereby changing the look to unnatural? I believe you also stuffed up by choosing a water based varnish. Water based products dry too quickly and in my opinion rarely give a smooth finish because you cannot work them for long with a brush, like you can with slower drying oil based varnishes.

goto a floor sanding supplier and get a 2 part water based topcoat.

if it is good enough to be walked on it will be good enough to protect that. only issue might be you will have to buy a larger lot of the stuff

Indoor: danish or tung oil. Take your time during coats and use steel wool to rub between coats. The finish is great and easily maintained when scuffs require hiding.