Dyes & opened grained woods

Hi...I am a newbie here..and might well ask some dumb questions so Please accept my assurance that I've done quite a bit of reading & browsing before I've found it necessary to ask....

I want to finish an electric guitar with what's known as a translucent finish. There seems to a distinction between that and a dyed finish IIRC because the colour is added to the lacquer coat/s not the wood.

The problem I can't resolve is that given I'm using Mountain Ash (E.regnans) as a laminated top it will require grain filling. What I'm after is yer basic Gibson Cherry red showing off the figuring in the Mountain Ash.

Basically I was am gearing up to do things through Ubeaut using shellac products & dyes but don't know yet what exactly to buy.

What effect does grain filling say with the shellac/talc mix have on the figuring and subsequent colouring of the Mountain Ash?

Should I dye then grain fill then clearcoat? Should I grainfill then dye then clearcoat, or should I grainfill & put some sort of colour in the clear coat/s?

Can I add the ubeaut dyes to shellac?

Sorry if I've blathered a bit but this situation isn't explicitly addressed in any of what I've read. The subjects are all dealt with separately.

TIA for any info.

RobSm

Hi Fanlee,

I don't have any answers to your questions (though Neil surely will!), but I'd like to hear them too!

Cheers!

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Originally Posted by fanlee

Hi...I am a newbie here..and might well ask some dumb questions so Please accept my assurance that I've done quite a bit of reading & browsing before I've found it necessary to ask.

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Welcome to the madhouse. :)

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The problem I can't resolve is that given I'm using Mountain Ash (E.regnans) as a laminated top it will require grain filling. What I'm after is yer basic Gibson Cherry red showing off the figuring in the Mountain Ash.

Basically I was am gearing up to do things through Ubeaut using shellac products & dyes but don't know yet what exactly to buy.

What effect does grain filling say with the shellac/talc mix have on the figuring and subsequent colouring of the Mountain Ash?

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Personally I dislike grain fillers as I don't like the final effect. I can't speak for shellac/talc as I haven't tried it but if you're staining the wood, generally speaking the filler will be visible as it doesn't normally take up the stain. This applies whether you stain first then fill, or vice-versa. I guess you could try staining the filler...

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Should I dye then grain fill then clearcoat? Should I grainfill then dye then clearcoat, or should I grainfill & put some sort of colour in the clear coat/s?

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Each of the above will work. As you've realised, each will have a slightly different effect. Assuming the dyes can be both added to your clear coat and used seperately, I recommend you try each method on some offcuts and see which you prefer. Sorry, that's not really much help, eh?

Personally I wouldn't grain-fill as such, I'd lay a coat of clear down and wet-sand with the final grit (a 1200?) for the first coat. I'd then lay down another couple of clear coats, rubbing each back, until achieving a good smooth fiinish. In my experience this tends to enhance the grain and figuring without making it look unnatural. I'd then add one or two more clears before moving on to a few stained coats...

I'd only use a very light stain and add more coats 'til I achieved the depth of colour I wanted! It's betterer to add a bit of colour with many coats than add a few heavily stained ones and discover you'd lost translucency! I'd finish with a coat or two of clear as a final protective surface.

That's my approach; like I said, you really need to try a few methods on offcuts before making a final decision. ;)

Hi FanLee, have a look at UBeaut's book, sorry, The Bible of Finishing - Not's it's proper title, but it's a great book and has a good section on exactly what you are asking. I'm not going to repeat what the book says as I'd hate to get it wrong and mislead you or misquote Neil.

Cheers
RufflyRustic

Book on order..

Thanks to all so far.

You are going to love it - well, ok, I love it. It's got a great style about it, funny and serious, sound advice and rules, a good size to hold while having a cuppa, it lies flat on the workbench and ...... :o Maybe I better let you see for yourself...

cheers
RufflyRustic

[QUOTE]Personally I wouldn't grain-fill as such, I'd lay a coat of clear down and wet-sand with the final grit (a 1200?) for the first coat. I'd then lay down another couple of clear coats, rubbing each back, until achieving a good smooth fiinish. In my experience this tends to enhance the grain and figuring without making it look unnatural. I'd then add one or two more clears before moving on to a few stained coats...

I'd only use a very light stain and add more coats 'til I achieved the depth of colour I wanted! It's betterer to add a bit of colour with many coats than add a few heavily stained ones and discover you'd lost translucency! I'd finish with a coat or two of clear as a final protective surface.[QUOTE]

I have now read 'the bible a few times' (& cheerfully stolen all the jokes) and also read a number of other books and am reasonably confident that I should follow what you've suggested..but... there's a but

In the bible there's a suggestion to use anilene dyes with shellac. I was intending to use the U-Beaut shellac and hard shellac.

When doing the coloured 'toner' coats using anilene dye in white shellac (per the bible) will the dye run into the first few clear coats and into the hard shellac final coat? Have I misunderstood the 'bleeding' phenomenon?(spell check anyone?)

I suppose I could use sprayed on nitrocellulose laquer as a final, but the safety of the shellac products appeals to me strongly.

Also I would like to buy stuff and start experimenting as you've advised.

TIA

RobSm