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I recently purchased a silky oak sideboard and table. Both are stained quite dark. I want to get them back to a natural finish.
Please help I don't know where to start.
I want to treat this wood with the respect and love it deserves.
1. How do I remove the dark stain without damaging the wood underneath? Are there special recipes for stripper, rather than using a manufactured stripper? Are there types of stripper that are gentle? Or do I just sand?
2. Once the finish is removed what next?
It certainly looks quite dark for silky oak which then poses the question of what stain was used.
Personally I would start by either scrapping or sanding off the finish. I would prefer to start with hand sanding in the corners and groves then maybe move to a sander. I would avoid a belt sander as this can be quite aggressive and could leave valleys and hills on a flat surface. I might go for a stripper to assist on some detail hard to reach places but that is my last option as it is best to use this outside.
One thing that I find about sanding is to make yourself comfortable as most sanding tasks takes a long time.
Hi Megan
welcome to the forums
your pieces.
The "European Labour only" stamp might indicate that the finish is shellac.
my suggestion is that you
first wash the pieces using warm water and a mild soap like Lux soap flakes. (If you can't get flakes, use a potato peeler on a bar of plain yellow (non-perfumed) soap.
when dry, try wiping the finish with denatured alcohol (commonly referred to as metholated spirits).
Be aware that some "methos" are up to 40% water. You need one that is 95+% ethanol.
If the finish is shellac, the alcohol will dissolve it and your rag will wipe it off.
Work in a well ventilated area.
Woolworths carries Sunlight bar soap and Lux pure soap flakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ian
The Diggers methylated spirits available from most hardware places will probably not be suitable as it doesn't guarantee what % is water. Paint stores like Haymes, Dulux Trade, Paint Place, etc. should carry 100% methylated spirits. Art stores like Eckersleys also carry 95% methylated spirits.
Hi Megan.
I had three attempts at writing a reply to this and threw them all out the other day . As a pro at this we did too much of it for to long with me starting in about 1973 as a 10 year old earning pocket money from Dad , and I'm still doing it . I now pay to have this sort of thing stripped by Pro stripping service when ever I can. And I would recommend to any one to do the same . Although I say I still do it I actually avoid it as much as possible. There are better ways to make a buck basically. Metho is a very slow way of stripping. Thin paint strippers act fastest . Gel strips on clear varnish or shellac finishes like this work but are like covering things in Jam , its a pain . There's Nothing gentle about any of the strippers I used . Some will melt all layers of your skin off in no time if you come into contact with it. I would start small and see how you like it and go with it . Try a door first . Technique is everything if you want to get it done fast .A fast job on this will take two days by hand if you had been doing it ten years. For a first time job its going to take a lot longer. The fastest way is paint stripper. Not sanding . Sanding the stain out of the grain is the next step after the finish is washed off. An expert at that would take another two days at that roughly, with the right gear. A first timer once again , a lot longer probably . We used to get a lot of this sort of work in where it was half finished because people got sick of it and gave up. Done right though I'm sure it will come up nice .
I'd try the strippers sold at Bunnings , they probably will be gel types , I dont know though. Im pretty sure they wont be the skin melting type. That stuff came from a chemical company supplying business in 20 lt containers . Werthiem laboratories I think. not sure about the spelling on that. A great product but dangerous to use. Rob
Welcome to the forums Megan,
As you can see, you will get a variety of responses here, from keen amateurs to old professionals and each has their own point of view informed by their experiences.
I'd like to start differently: They are good looking pieces of furniture that you have, and well-worth the time and effort to treat it well. The European labour stamp came about circa 1890 because after the gold rushes petered out by the late 19th Century there were a lot of Chinese immigrants here out of work. Many of them were proficient cabinetmakers and needed a way to make a living. They set up Chinese cabinet shops and produced good furniture at low prices. The European and Australian cabinetmakers didn't like the competition, hence the stamp and a lot of negative publicity -- that was part of or the beginning of the White Australia Policy.
Strange as it may seem, a lot of the furniture made with beautiful golden Australian timbers like Northern Silky Oak (like your piece) and Queensland Maple were stained very dark to meet the aesthetic standards of the time, that is, the dark colour is original. The stain may also have darkened with age because of heat or smoke from open fires etc. However, it is yours so you can choose if you want to make it lighter. I do recommend a clean and wax on some of it before stripping as it may be a more pleasing colour than you imagine.
Enjoying old, good quality furniture is a sign of good taste IMHO. Some people want the furniture but not the work. Auscab's recommendations above apply to them, and good luck to them - find an easy way and be happy with the result. Others, like me and many others in these forums, take great pleasure from doing it themselves and learning good techniques, no matter how long it takes. How wonderful to show your friends such a piece and to be able to say "I restored that myself".
If you are in the latter category I recommend that you do the following: (if in the first category you can skip to the next respondent as my possibly overly-technical response may bore you!)
1. Avoid sanding
2. Follow ian's advice above (except see below)
3. The "metho" that you use to clean back is not critical as to water content. Originally methylated sprits was so named because methyl alcohol was added to ethanol so that people didn't drink it (methyl alcohol sends people blind). That isn't legal now so a bittering agent is added instead to "de-nature" the ethanol. It is true that a high water content will tend to make your finish go white, but that is not a permanent problem if you follow advice point 7 below. Also, I have never had a problem with the cheap Diggers brand from the big green shed despite their caution of guaranteeing a water component (because ethanol is hygroscopic [absorbs water from the air] that is a tough one for them to guarantee and any opened bottle of metho gradually absorbs more water over time anyway).
4. Use a non-metallic scouring pad to help remove the original shellac and stain mix.
5. When you have reached a colour that you are happy with you will need to be prepared to refinish the articles.
6. Please do not use polyurethane or other modern finishes.
7. Shellac is the best finish for old furniture like this (I make no such judgements about new items of furniture)
8. If you are keen to get a great result then I recommend that you teach yourself French Polishing. It is much easier than it sounds. Forums owner Neil Ellis of UBeaut have produced a great book on all types of finishing so buy a copy. They also sell ready-made shellac solutions if you don't want to dissolve your own flakes or buttons (post here and I can tell you more). I have no financial or other connection with Neil Ellis or UBeaut.
9. Don't panic! If French Polishing is a step too far you can get a good result brushing shellac on as long as you use very dilute shellac and rub back (sand with 1000 grit paper) between every 4-5 coats.
Good luck
David
What I was pointing out that going down the path of stripping the two pieces is long, hard and dirty work with chemicals. And I then went on with all the hard options to help if Megan wants to go that way with stripping the two pieces.
If the two pieces could be lightened by rubbing back a later colour job revealing an original light finish I would recommend that as a first option . It doesn't look like that though so I didn't mention it . Some testing would be a good recommendation for Megan. I'm happy to recommend more , but I first like to see if a first poster is actually coming back for more info rather than being a one post and then never to return thing as happens a bit.
Rob
HI Megan, Welcome to the club. You have some great experts to give you the most valued advice so I thought as a fellow newcomer I would offer some pointers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan O
Plan to work on one item at a time and learn from mistakes or lessons for the next one.
I would chose the table and leave the table top to last. Hardest to hide a mistake there :) It's got plenty of flat easily accessible surfaces.
Look for exposed nails or anything metal that can damage a sharp scraper and then be careful to avoid them.
Don't be surprised to find another persons nistakes hidden by the shellac or stained varnish.
Plan for safety. Look after your lungs and those of others. Most sanders have a dust collection systems and I really recommend using and cleaning them. I go a step further using a vacuum cleaner attached using a round rubber stepped adaptor (found in Bunnings tool section). I could afford a second hand Festool unit which turns on and off with the tool (just for comfort).
Personally trialling scraping first. Mine is the metal handled one sold in Bunnings paint section (I bought spare blades). I 95% stripped a display cabinet of varnish last night. I've only been using this for a few weeks and finally got the touch to stop digging in too much. For safety sake beware of when you leave the scraper sitting as the blades are very sharp. I've found scraping especially good for corners and on plyboard surfaces. I'm never scared of going back and forth until I get the pressure right for good single removing scrapes.
Clean clean up using sandpaper. I have learn that the finer the grit you use for the final sanding the easier finish and better quality the final surface of finish. I used to be about just getting the furniture stripped and throwing on the finish. Now I strip to allow me to prepare the surface to make applying finish and have a great surface,
I'm still learning to apply shellac which I have seen from others and then myself that I can get a stunning glassy surface that can really bring 3D colour to the grain.
I'm also learning to apply Estapol varnish and stain. I try to stay with what was originally done but admit that some pieces were done so dark that it totally hides the grain.
There is so much to write on the subject but I find what you have done with pictures is best. Don't be concerned about asking and asking questions and showing pictures as you progress. The great experts here will come back with valuable guidance better than any YouTube or magazine articles. Sometimes there are conflicts in ideas and opinions which for me is so educating.
Hi Ian (from Canada),
I'm only just getting back to replying, I have been busy with a new job I have started this month.
I have been out this morning and bought Lux soap flakes as you suggested, so I am going to wash up the piece first. Then I am going to try the metho out.
I'll let you know how I go.
Cheers
Megan
hi Megan
thanks for coming back to your question.
keep us up to date as you work on your restoration
I decided to start on the sideboard
So I cleaned with lux flakes as suggested then tried metho - must have been a shellac as it dissolved and wiped away. So a day and a half later I have completed removing the shellac and given the piece a light sand with 400 grit paper - hand sand that is. I really like to look of the wood when it has just been wiped over - the grain is beautiful, definitely silky oak.
What should I use now to get this wet look to allow the grain to stand out but without adding darkness to the piece?
Hi Megan,
I just realised we are neighbours (in suburbs). Great pictures and progress. I definitely still an amateur and will comment and hope others will add better advice.
Personally before asking the final decision I would experiment on something not so valuable like some small pieces of silky. I have a load of broken chairs I buy very cheap for wood and learning with.
First I'll admit I like rub on rather than brush on. Cheaper and easier for me to get and throw away rags and cotton wool. In between uses I store them in a jar that keeps them wet and ready).
I like applying shellac but also some of the rub ons varnish type mixtures. With the shellac I will rub on a single layer than has had some metholated spirits added to seal the wood and raise the fine bits of wood that I can further sand with fine sand paper. After that for a fine finish I keep rubbing on more and more shellac with light fine sanding and wipe down in between shellac layers. For me it develops an amber glass layer. When I'm happy with that it's an application of wax.
Sounds simple but for me I've had to learn from a lot of mistakes. For instance I love, in this weather, working out in the sun. Well if it is hot enough you can cause little noticeable bubbles to develop on a layer.
I would recommend watching some masters on YouTube but also consider investing into "A Polishers Handbook" by Neil Ellis from this forum. It's all about finishing techniques for Australian woodworkers.
I would also suggest reading through past posts on this forums as some of the masters write some great pieces with really helpful advice. I look forward to seeing your progress and please keep asking the questions as it helps many more of us learn from the answers :)