Owner Building - YES or NO?

Further to my post (Renovation / m2) . . . I've had my dad on the phone again, trying to convince me to "owner build", which was the plan in the first place, but the builder friend who was going to help got too busy.

After reading the below . . .

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Originally Posted by namtrak

For what its worth here is a thread where I am tracking our renos, I have included some stuff on costs which may come in handy

Cheers

The link

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. . . I thought I'd ask - for those who have owner-built - why, beside cost, would you do this?
1. Is it a big hassle?
2. Was it / is it satisfying?
3. Is it majorly stressful
4. Were you working a 'normal' job while you were owner building?
5. Is there things you "cringe" about that you wish you'd got a builder to do?
6. How do tradesmen interact with owner builders (especially women!) ie. are they condesceding, are the more than willing to help, do they take you for a ride?
7. How ascertive do I need to be?
8. Who are the best people to get free advice from?

Ta!
Bin J

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Originally Posted by Bin J

6. How do tradesmen interact with owner builders (especially women!) ie. are they condesceding, are the more than willing to help, do they take you for a ride?
8. Who are the best people to get free advice from?

Ta!
Bin J

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Ok I can answer 6 and 8.

6. I dont like to work for owner builders mainly because they cause me to lose money from their inability to get things done when they are suppose to be done.
Hence, if I HAVE TO work for an owner builder I useualy charge at least twice the going rate.

8. From the ppl least likely to give it away for free.
Advise aint free, it always carrys a cost, get the wrong advise and see what I mean.

Al :)

Ouch Ozwinner! You are NOT selling owner-building! :)

I should also mention that I don't intend on doing any hammering and nailing, rather just organising, chasing up, etc, etc. But will do demolition work etc.

Too many ppl watch them lifestlye shows where Jamie Jurry flashes his pearly whites, and hey presto, the job is done like magic.

Well the bad news, I dont think his girly hands are up to it for starters, he may chip a nail or worse, get a blister.

What you dont see behind the scenes are the hoard of real tradies doing all the work.
Yes I know, it all looks like plain sailing on tv.

Al :)

At one stage I worked for a builder, doing his books not on the tools, and I learnt what needs to be done to keep a project on time, on track and on budget. The scheduling of the various works and the order in which it is done to keep the trades working and cost down is enormous.

Hence my advice is that if you need to ask those questions then you don't know enough to be an owner builder. As ozwinner said it is not like the reality shows where they don't show the scheduling, ordering and organising that has gone on behind the scenes.

May be a tafe short course on owner building would be a good idea.

Having said that, if I was now to build a house I would do it myself. :D


Peter.

in my humble opinion you wont save money , just the opposite it will cost more .
Don't do it unless it is for a hobby or personal challenge .
Great advise from last post , do a TAFE course first and plan , plan ,plan .
Rick

P.S. In answer to your question yes or no . I say No .

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Too many ppl watch them lifestlye shows where Jamie Jurry flashes his pearly whites, and hey presto, the job is done like magic.

What you dont see behind the scenes are the hoard of real tradies doing all the work.
Yes I know, it all looks like plain sailing on tv.

Al :)

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Well I'm not that naive! :D (just because I'm a girl!) In fact, I'm quite cynical when it comes to stuff like that. What I thought I could do by owner building was to avoid paying the builder a MASSIVE amount, for work that he may or may not have to do. I don't want to have to pay an extra $40k for nothing! When instead I could have had a better kitchen / bathroom / floor coverings etc.

By what you've all said though - this isn't necessarily the case?:confused:

PS - don't bag out Jamie Dury! - I've seen him strip, trust me, he's no girl ;) :D :p

I am going to have to agree with Ozwinner here.

If owner builders ask me to work for them I tell them I am too busy even if I'm
not. They're not worth the effort. If I get talked into it I charge at least double.

This sounds harsh but it is reality and every experienced tradesman I know will say the same.

Unless you are very confident of your ability to be an "owner builder" don't even consider it.

Please take this the right way. I am only trying to help you avoid a lot of pain and expence.

There are definately people who can do it and I have seen it work out well.
I am sure there are a lot of members of this forum who would do well but most people should not attempt it.

Greolt

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Originally Posted by Bin J

1. Is it a big hassle?

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It can be, depending on the personality of the OB. I used to tell my client's that building can be the best or worst thing that's ever happened to them in their lives. Some get soooooo stressed over the smallest little defect that one wonders how they would cope in a disaster. If you understand that if you do mess up in the supervision stakes, anything can be fixed and take it in your stride, you'll be OK.

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2. Was it / is it satisfying?

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For those that didn't suffer major stress attacks yes.

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3. Is it majorly stressful

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Mostly building is about managing. If you find managing stressful, then you'll be stressed for the whole project.

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4. Were you working a 'normal' job while you were owner building?

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As a registered builder with a bit of experience, working at a senior level in a development company, I had more resources at my disposal than most, yet during our recent renovations I had a minimum of three visits per day on site, one at the beginning of the day, one in my "lunch hour" and one after everyone had gone home, checking what had or hadn't been done. An average of an hour or so per day on site is a realistic minimum if you are a very good manager and are concerned about quality, but that doesn't take into account racing round and picking up stuff that didn't arrive or that is needed to keep the guys working.

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5. Is there things you "cringe" about that you wish you'd got a builder to do?

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Everything was subcontracted, I cringe when I see stuff I could have done better, and spent a couple of hours teaching the young cabinet maker how to set out a curved bench.

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6. How do tradesmen interact with owner builders (especially women!) ie. are they condesceding, are the more than willing to help, do they take you for a ride?

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See Oz's comment. Don't think that a condescending attitude is gender based, there are plenty of blokes who are complete dopes who waste a lot of subbies time too. Don't expect help unless you are prepared to pay for it. This may be a fun learning experience for you, but for the tradesman it's an expensive waste of time. He's there to make a living, and can do that a lot easier if he isn't expected to "help".

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7. How ascertive do I need to be?

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Let me see..... female, knows not much, ascertive. I don't think so.
Better to have them think you are stupid than to open your trap and prove it!!
On another thread, SilentC after a week into the new project has correctly alluded to the fact effectively supervising a building team is about managing people. Some people respond to assertiveness, others don't. There are no rules. Your job is to get the best result from each member of the team, and you have to treat each accordingly.

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8. Who are the best people to get free advice from?

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See Oz's comments. Free advice is usually worth what you pay for it. (Except if you get it from this forum! :rolleyes: ;) )

Don't think I'm trying to disuade you from having a go, I'm not. BEFORE you start, learn enough about the process to answer your own questions above, and you'll be OK.

Cheers,

P
:D

You posted while I typed. This is definately not being sexist.

The most successful owner builder I have seen is a girl. Eight houses last time I counted.

Greolt

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Originally Posted by Bin J

What I thought I could do by owner building was to avoid paying the builder a MASSIVE amount, for work that he may or may not have to do. I don't want to have to pay an extra $40k for nothing!

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Hmmm. The only way you'll save $40k by owner building, is doing $80k worth of work yourself!

Sorry, but that's the sad truth!

cheers,

P

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Originally Posted by Greolt

You posted while I typed. This is definately not being sexist.

The most successful owner builder I have seen is a girl. Eight houses last time I counted.

Greolt

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That makes her a builder, so it doesn't count!

Cheers,

P
:D

Al and the Midgster are both spot on, I will not work for an owner builder full stop.... Generally, as a chippy I prefer to work for women as they are easier to talk to, have a better grasp of costing and aren't getting up my nose all bloody day trying to convince me they know more than me..... Oh, and they pay their bills far more promptly!

Im pretty sure that to be an OB in Vic now, you have to do a course of some sort.
I still wont work for them.

Al :)

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Originally Posted by bitingmidge

That makes her a builder, so it doesn't count!

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I guess you could say that but she is just a mum with three young kids an runs a gift shop. Also lived in all the houses she built.

Greolt