Flooring problem.

Round about 20th April this year we had loose lay vinyl flooring planks laid throughout our dining,kitchen,
family room and hallways. This is a Dunlop product and was laid by a professional floor flooring person. The
product was bought partly on his recommendation and partly on the recommendation of the supplier.

The finished job looked absolutely perfect and the floor layer came back a couple of times over the next month
or so just to check that all was well.

Everything was well and good until the first cold night towards the end of June. In the morning we noticed
gaps appearing where the planks butt against each other on the ends. Since then these gaps have opened
and closed according to the temperature. In the afternoon when we get sunshine on parts of the floor the gaps
close almost completely.

We went to the supplier who said he would get in touch with Dunlop and have them come to check things out.
This he did not do. Instead the floor layer who does contract work for the supplier was told to come out and "Fix it".

We feel this was wrong as it was not the floorer's problem. We were here during the laying and we know how particular
he was in doing the job. This fellow examined the floor and could not find where he MIGHT have erred. Even in places
where the floor was glued there is some parting of the ways.

We contacted Dunlop and finally they rang us. They have, over the phone, denied product fault but are sending a rep
to examine the situation next week. They have also told us that the supplier was unhelpful.

My fear is that a snow job will be done by Dunlop and there may be some loss incurred by both the floor layer and ourselves.

What disgusts me about the whole situation is the attitude of the supplier. It wasn't until after one personal visit and then
two phone calls over almost 3 weeks that any approach was made to Dunlop by them. I have heard this fellow refer to customers
as dickheads. He is obviously not brave enough to say that to their face. His whole attitude has been to wash his hands of
everything and blame others. What would it have cost him to immediately get onto Dunlop?? If there is a fault with the product they
will wear the cost, not him. I hate smart arses!!!

Could this expansion/contraction be normal?

Do you have or can you find a product specification listing the expansion/ contraction of vinyl?

A common problem with cheap imported vinyls. Try to get hold of the product information and specs prior to the rep's visit and see what he has to say and go from there. Best to be armed with a bit of info before accepting the manufacturers agents comments as gospel.

Was assured by the supplier that this product had a minimal expansion. He did quote figures but I have forgotten them.
The figure quoted was nowhere near the 3mm gaps we measure in a couple of places.

All information supplied was on the packaging and the requirements for keeping within the warranty conditions were met.

This is NOT a Cheap imported vinyl product. It is manufactured by Dunlop and they claim that of all the tens of thousands
of Square metres they have sold this is their first complaint. I know that the confidence shown by Dunlop in this product
was shown by them increasing the warranty period And extending their recommendations for gluing every 5 metres to every
50 metres!! Our fellow stuck with 5metres!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

... this is their first complaint.

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Sounds like it's snowing, which is unusual for your part of the country.

If I understand it correctly - the vinyl planks aren't attached to any substrate or battens? Just placed over the existing floor and then glued together? How thick are they? I wouldn't have thought vinyl would expand and contract so much, but it sounds like it's worse than timber.

Suppliers will say anything to get a sale, if/when any problems arise, will deny any knowledge of saying so. Like insurances they NEVER admit liability.
Kryn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artme

Was assured by the supplier that this product had a minimal expansion. He did quote figures but I have forgotten them.
The figure quoted was nowhere near the 3mm gaps we measure in a couple of places.

All information supplied was on the packaging and the requirements for keeping within the warranty conditions were met.

This is NOT a Cheap imported vinyl product. It is manufactured by Dunlop and they claim that of all the tens of thousands
of Square metres they have sold this is their first complaint. I know that the confidence shown by Dunlop in this product
was shown by them increasing the warranty period And extending their recommendations for gluing every 5 metres to every
50 metres!! Our fellow stuck with 5metres!

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Looking at the US recommendations for vinyl strip flooring, the expected expansion / contraction is in the order of 12 to 16 mm for a typical [US] sized room. (The recommendation I found was leave a 5/16" expansion gap on all sides of a room. The expansion gap to be covered with a skirting board.)
The other thing I found was a recommendation to keep the room's temperature between 13 and 30 degrees C.

So while very unsightly, a few 3mm gaps might be within specification for the product. 3 mm over 6 m (20 feet) might be expressed as expansion / contraction of 0.05%

Ugh we had a similar experience with flooring in 2014 ... tassie oak veneered boards, supposed to be hard-wearing but were heavily scratched within weeks. Contacted the installer, who referred us to his distributor who similarly shrugged and referred us to the manufacturer who merely smirked and pointed to the product spec sheet which was of course unhelpful.

Installer was a great guy, offered to remedy it for free with additional poly coating but we turned him down - not his fault, he believed the product was better and was just as let down as we were.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Sounds like it's snowing, which is unusual for your part of the country.

If I understand it correctly - the vinyl planks aren't attached to any substrate or battens? Just placed over the existing floor and then glued together? How thick are they? I wouldn't have thought vinyl would expand and contract so much, but it sounds like it's worse than timber.

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The planks are 5mm thick and are simply laid onto the existing flooring, or substrate as the packaging says. The only gluing done is up against the perimeter where the first
row is glued to the existing floor. Sometimes a second row may be glued but this is not necessary. Every 5 metres thereafter a row may be glued. The rest of the planks are
simply laid end to end. Our Floor layer was careful to knock the ends tight up against each other and to knock them together along the sides. I cannot fault his work.

The existing vinyl floor is glued down and never showed any signs of movement. It was thoroughly cleaned before the new material was laid and SWMBO kept vacuuming as
progress was made just to be sure everything was right.

I did expect a little movement, I'm not blind to the properties of vinyl, but I think this is ridiculous. When the floor is cleaned particles drop down the cracks. It is easy enough
to remove a plank and then remove the offending particles, but why should we have to?? BTW, we are also seeing longitudinal gaps.

I have seen other similar products _ which our supplier pours scorn on - and no problems are seen with them. A friend of ours did his own job and the problem of expansion
.and contraction has not arisen. This despite him using, according to our supplier, a "S^&t" product.

Don't worry, many people with VW DSG gearboxes were told "This is the first complaint we've received..."

Spend a bit of time to research (google) consumer rights, and use some of the following terms "fit for purpose", "of merchantable quality", "expert advice" - in relation to the advice you received and relied on in choosing and having this product installed, just a few to get you going. The old Act was called the Trade Practices Act (from memory) but it has since been superseded but hasn't lost any of its bite. It greatly favours the consumer and is worth spending a bit of time looking up.

Likely scenario is that there will end up being argy-bargy between the manufacturer/supplier and the installer - neither of which is your problem except the possible delay it may cause. Just keep the heat on the pot and it will boil.

Final thought, don't be tricked into signing ANYTHING. They (someone else not you) will have to remedy the situation at no cost to you but may try to get you to either pay or agree to pay some money, or limit your ability to talk about it. You don't have to accept their terms.

Good advice from Q9
The responsibility to you is on the retailer. What happens between them and Dunlop is not your problem.

:whs:

but from the Dunlop Heritage vinyl flooring installation guides:

• Maintain a relative humidity level between 50%-65% and a room temperature between 17°C – 25°C -- Click together planks

• Maintain room temperature between 14°C – 28°C and avoid rapid or significant temperature fluctuations. -- loose lay planks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ian

:whs:

but from the Dunlop Heritage vinyl flooring installation guides:

• Maintain a relative humidity level between 50%-65% and a room temperature between 17°C – 25°C -- Click together planks

• Maintain room temperature between 14°C – 28°C and avoid rapid or significant temperature fluctuations. -- loose lay planks

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This is not heritage but Catleton.

I wonder if the supplier is supposed to advise the consumer of the the temperature conditions?/ Will have to check that out.

If the conditions you list are true for this product then why bother to even sell it?? It seems as if only perfectly controlled
conditions will make the product satisfactory, or fit for purpose.

I agree.

The US sites say something like "the temperature conditions that are good for your floor are also good for your comfort"

bit of an all purpose get out me thinks

Read the printing on the box and it says what your info says. My comment still stands and I want to know if the product is really
fit for purpose.

This was not drawn to our attention before purchase and this makes me wonder about duty of disclosure.