Seeking to Buy Full Face Respirator

I have noticed an increased sensitivity to wood dust - sneezing, painful inflammation of the sinus that crusts up and while I try to reduce my exposure, sanding outdoors, showering after workshop time I am looking towards purchasing a Full Face Respirator.

Now there seams to be two brands 3M and MSA.

Now I have been trolling eBay.com

I see you can get lots of 3M branded stuff out of China dirt cheap are these genuine or fakes?
I assume that 3M is made in China?
Does anyone have any ideas about MSA?
Can anyone can recommend a specific model?
Is the class in the full face respirator shatter proof?
Is a single front filter or two filters better or worse? I am thinking the side filters would not obstruct my vision as much?
Are filters standardised will one fit most models?

I am looking at the following candidates.

3M - 6000 Series Full Face Mask Respirator - Gas Mask

OR

MSA Advantage® 3200 Full-Facepiece Respirator

Any suggestions, comments or ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I have noticed an increased sensitivity to wood dust - sneezing, painful inflammation of the sinus that crusts up and while I try to reduce my exposure, sanding outdoors, showering after workshop time I am looking towards purchasing a Full Face Respirator.

---

You situation is not uncommon and I am sorry to hear it has happened to you while you are relatively young as sensitivity rarely gets better and commonly gets worse as you get older.

Sanding outside is not worth much. I completely lost my sense of smell for 6 weeks sanding outdoors.

If you are sensitised to wood dust and don't have proper dust extraction to remove the dust at source, and decide to use a mask you will have to wear it all the time you are in your shed.
Having to wear a mask all the time is a very uncomfortable way to perform woodwork.

In general you are better off initially directing funds towards better dust extraction at source than to PPE face masks.

Face masks should be used as a last resort after all other methods have been employed.

I want to use the respirator in addition to any dust extraction.

At the moment I only have two machines a bandsaw (that I do not use - needs restoration) & drill press (currently being restored - plan to add dust collection, somehow?) that Can makes dust in the future.

I am looking to purchase a Cleave Cyclone when I get my machines up and running in 2016.

I am really looking for something to be used for handwork things like hand sanding and hand sawing (sawing makes lots of fine dust and I have found it can irritate me) and hand planing can also be dusty depending on the wood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I want to use the respirator in addition to the dust extractor.

---

That's a start but does your dust extractor vent to the outside - if not then the it's basically a waste of time for fine dust control.

Quote:

---

I keep a spotless workshop, I sweep & vacuum at the end of the day.

---

Unfortunately where fine dust is concerned vacuum cleaners (VCs) generally make things worse. VC filters are generally very inefficient and they invariably leak. In addition the high air speeds used by VCs mince visible dust dust particles into large number of invisible ones so you might think your shed is spotless when the air it is actually full of fine dust. VCs are notorious for dust making and like a DC the only way to control fine dust with a vacuum cleaner is to locate the VC outside.

Quote:

---

I use a large fan to blow air through from the front door to the back door..

---

I'd need to see the geometrical arrangement of the doors and fan before commenting on the effectiveness of this setup. Most setups I have seen attempting to do this just stir up as much dust as is evacuated. You cannot go by what you see as the offending particles are invisible.

Quote:

---

At the moment I only have two machines a bandsaw (that I do not use - needs restoration) & drill press (currently being restored - plan to add dust collection, somehow?) that makes dust.
I am really looking for something to be used for handwork things like hand sanding and hand sawing (sawing makes lots of fine dust and I have found it can irritate me) and hand planing can also be dusty depending on the wood.

---

My testing of hand sawing and planing shows they make relatively little fine dust in comparison to routing, turning or sanding (hand or machine). In Derek Cohen's workshop I tested out his planing activity for dust and could barely register much above background. Of course blades have to be kept very sharp. This is consistent with what others experimenters have measured.

As far as machines go, a drill press also makes very little fine dust compared to almost all other machinery. Once again using sharp bits and the correct speed further reduces dust. Unless I am drilling MDF or many many consecutive holes I don't always bother to turn on my DC when using the drill press

I and surprised to hear about someone having a problem with dust from using hand tools. You could of course have become hyper sensitised to very low levels of dust from a specific timber species. In that case you might not be able to have any skin contact at all with this timber in the future.

I have faced similar issues with fine dusts affecting my sinusitis. I'm pretty diligent with dust control however there is still a film of fine dust throughout my work areas no matter what I do. Most hobby workshops would comprehensively fail ambient dust levels in a workplace health & safety audit.

I regularly wear the Trend / Purelite powered air respirators and adopt similar techniques to what you use, however that does not protect me or my family from the ambient dusts levels I create. PARP's etc only protect you while you are wearing them & fine dusts linger in the work shop environments long after the apparent hazard has passed.

The only practical way to "totally eliminate" fine dust in a hobby workshop is to adopt techniques that don't create fine dusts - eliminate the hazard i.e. hand planing . The next best option is to adopt commercial / industrial hazard control techniques which remove the operator from the hazard - fine dusts, by enclosing the production machine in a cabinet, or to use down draft technology (spray booths), with an external exhaust to an external duct collection system.

Totally enclosing hobby machines like routers / spindle moulders, planers, thicknessers, band saws, table saws and hand operated tools like power saws, routers, planers etc or down draft designs are neither practical, efficient or realistic cost wise for they hobbyist.

There are units like the Hammer/Felder RL series of "clean air dust extractors" http://www.felder-group-australia.co...xtractors.html which offer sufficient air flow rates to be relatively effective and are within the budget of the well heeled wood enthusiast only. Again these will reduce the hazard - the amount of fine dust in the workshop environment but will not eliminate the hazard as some fin dusts still remain in the workshop environment and dust levels will increase in time on static surfaces to become a potential future hazard.

Unfortunately efficient & effective chip / dust / fine dust control is beyond the budget of probably 95% of hobbyists so we have to adopt compromise solutions employing DE's and powered / non-powered respirators as our controls.

So we can still adopt practical work techniques and utilize technology, similar to what BobL has been promoting for years, which is within our budget constraints to reduce the hazards of fine dust or minimize exposure levels / duration.

ps if you wear a beard - neither of the two solutions you have mentioned as respirators will work 100% effectively.

I am just looking for a good Full Face Respirator to be used mostly for hand sanding as per my original questions.

I do not have a dust extractor - Because at the moment I do not have any machines that are operational or being used.

I have a Festool L Class Mobile Dust Extractor 15 Litre CT MIDI to go with my Festool Router, but that is the only working machine I have and I would like to use the Respirator to be extra safe.

I suffer from eczema & hay fever both disorders related to my autoimmune system since childhood. These make me more sensitive to chemicals & pollen.

I already wear cotton gloves when I work with wood.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

There are units like the Hammer/Felder RL series of "clean air dust extractors" http://www.felder-group-australia.co...xtractors.html which offer sufficient air flow rates to be relatively effective and are within the budget of the well heeled wood enthusiast only. Again these will reduce the hazard - the amount of fine dust in the workshop environment but will not eliminate the hazard as some fin dusts still remain in the workshop environment and dust levels will increase in time on static surfaces to become a potential future hazard..

---

Wood dust will never be removed from a shed because make up air in the outside environment already contains some natural wood dust, and wood inside the shed continually makes a small amont of dust.
However, when the wood dust in air in a shed reaches less than recommended health levels it can be said to have be controlled
Better still is when wood dust levels in a shed reach the same levels present in external air or background whereby it can for all practical purposes (i.e. what an operator breathes) can be said to have been eliminated.
It is possible to further reduce ALL dust through use of special HEPA filters - normal outside suburban air contains millions of dust particles per cubic metre.
In a laboratory I designed at work we reached less than 10 particles per cubic metre with human operators present, and more than 10 cubic metres per particle without.
A conventional WW room air filter can reduce all dust levels in a shed which will help when applying finishes but it will take some time to do this and will not normally keep up with removing dust from a running machine.

If a workshop is relatively small e.g. 10 x 8 x 20 ft that = 1600 cubic ft and only hand tools (no sanding) are in use the level of dust inside a shed will rarely rise above recommended health levels of 5 ppm

A 1000 cfm dust extractor placed outside with suitable cross flow air entry point will evacuate 1600 CF in just 96 (let's call it 100) seconds.
In practice it will not evacuate the entire space in 100 s but more like about half the air and hence half the dust.
In the next 100 seconds it will remove another 50% so it will be down to 1/4, another 100 second to get to 1/8

It will take 700 seconds (~12 minutes) to get down to 99% of the original level (0.05ppm), 10 minutes will get to 99.9% of the original level or 0.005ppm where the level of wood dust will approximate levels in normal air. At this point if the dust extractor is left running the wood dust problem in the air is eliminated

So running a 3HP DC with 6" ducting WILL easily and quickly eliminate wood dust from a small shed using hand tools (no sanding).
If something like a fume hood or semi enclosed space with a down draft air extraction is used this will also be sufficient to handle sanding

Now contrast this with wood turning where the dust levels can get to 500 ppm.
However, to get to 5 ppm (recommended safe working limit) will take about ~7 minutes, to get to 0.005 ppm will take ~17 minutes.

This assumes of course that dust is not continually being pumped into the air.
This is why it is important to capture the dust at the source and expel it from the shed.
A 1000 cfm DC will easily maintain a sub 5 ppm level while undertaking all forms of small (especially spindle) turning - I have tested this myself.
It may look like it is not keeping up because large chips will be scattered everywhere but remember anything visible is not going to hurt you and can be picked up and disposed of later.

For larger forms of turning more flow will be needed, i.e. 1500 to 2000 CFM, but not much more.
More importantly the residual dust in the air remaining after turning will then be quickly removed.
This is why I keep harping on about run DCs for some time after the last dust making activity.

The larger the shed the bigger the problem and the longer it takes.

It's not rocket science and it does work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I have noticed an increased sensitivity to wood dust - sneezing, painful inflammation of the sinus that crusts up and while I try to reduce my exposure, sanding outdoors, showering after workshop time I am looking towards purchasing a Full Face Respirator.

Now there seams to be two brands 3M and MSA.

Now I have been trolling eBay.com

I see you can get lots of 3M branded stuff out of China dirt cheap are these genuine or fakes?
I assume that 3M is made in China?
Does anyone have any ideas about MSA?
Can anyone can recommend a specific model?
Is the class in the full face respirator shatter proof?
Is a single front filter or two filters better or worse? I am thinking the side filters would not obstruct my vision as much?
Are filters standardised will one fit most models?

I am looking at the following candidates.

3M - 6000 Series Full Face Mask Respirator - Gas Mask

OR

MSA Advantage® 3200 Full-Facepiece Respirator

Any suggestions, comments or ideas?

---

The 3M 6000 series are very good respirators. I use a half-face for paint spraying. I've used the Chinese versions of the organic vapor cartridges (6001CN) with no problems. You'll want the P100 particulate filters which are relatively inexpensive. If you're very sensitive the combo P100/acid-gas/organic vapor cartridges may help. Make sure that you fit your respirator properly, if you don't know how get some help. All of the 6XXX filters fit the 6000 series masks.
As to the eye protection level they are about as good as any plastic face shield. I wouldn't count on them to stop high speed projectiles such as lathe blow outs. Grinding particles and saw dust shouldn't be a problem.
Take extra precautions with lacquer thinner, all epoxy products and anything else you're sensitive to especially in the presence of dust from species you're reacting badly to.

Thanks Rob.

Have you considered a positive pressure helmet? Nice and cool in summer.

I have one of the Triton helmets with 2 power packs, they are good while the battery is fresh but I HATE the visor, it buggers up your vision, OK for most work but hopeless if you have to do something precise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

I have one of the Triton helmets with 2 power packs, they are good while the battery is fresh but I HATE the visor, it buggers up your vision, OK for most work but hopeless if you have to do something precise.

---

I use a Racal with aftermarket visors. No problem with vision and the battery and power pack give good service.