School reunion

I went to my old school reunion last weekend, I managed to catch up with two old class mates and one teacher, I hadn't seen these people in 41 years I got a shock they were all old men it was all very depressing.

Whilst there we got talking about corporal punishment and which teacher was the best at giving "the cuts", the discussion turned to the benefits and we all agreed that corporal punishment was character building. Think about it, for a young lad to stand bravely in front of his peers with his hands out waiting for the wack and after would to polity thank the teacher has to build character. How many young people who have missed this character building experience would be better members of society today if they had had the pleasure of experiencing it?

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Mrs. Wood and I were, just last night, discussing this subject. I all too vividly recall on several occasions one headmaster growling at me "WOOD! Assume the position in my study and await my pleasure" (which, in a Catholic Boys' School, would have meant something else entirely). And I'm a very well adjusted individual now.

I'm all for corporal punishment, but not child abuse, obviously. Waiting for fifteen or twenty minutes, bent over the desk in the headmaster's study with your pants round your ankles, anticipating the inevitable was infinitely worse than the eventual caning and was a very potent deterrent to developing young minds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woodwould

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]-->

I'm all for corporal punishment, but not child abuse, obviously. Waiting for fifteen or twenty minutes, bent over the desk in the headmaster's study with your pants round your ankles, anticipating the inevitable was infinitely worse than the eventual caning and was a very potent deterrent to developing young minds.

---

I would have been tempted to light a fart whilst in the position :)
But then I was always in trouble at school

How character building was it to have the skin ripped from your fingers, as happened to my older brother!:?:?:?

I had 53 notches in my desk by the middle of grade 6 - same teacher. Didn't the stupid sadist realise that if corporal punishment worked, it would have worked the first time??????


Yes I think many of us grew up well adjusted DESPITE the punishment. That didn't, and doesn't, make it a good, or even acceptable thing.


Many of you will remember a criminal by the name of D'Arcy Dugan. A friend of mine was a Youth and Community Services officer who ( long aftr D'arcy had left school, and IIRC was dead) had cuase to visit the school attended by Dugan when he was a child. Apparently the punishment book showed that young Dugan was unmercifully lashed on a regular basis. Seemed to cure him, didn't it?:no::no:

I remember reading a punishment book in a school where a child was given 6 "cuts"" for being late for school. Later in the day SHE was given another 6 cuts for sulking about the first punishment!:oo::oo:

Therein lies the problem with CP. It is PUNISHMENt and is open to vile excesses by sadists and frustrated adults.

A far better method for dealing with behaviour problems is to have a system of CONSEQUENCES whereb a set consequence is put in place for a specified offence.

I could go on but you get my drift.

Good to stimulate some debate, in primary school about grade 2 I had a teacher 'Crabby Crow" she used a piece of 3/4 dowel to hit us across the knuckles multiple times, I remember poor old Rodger Williams use to do a dance and pee his pants every time, she use to sit in her chair all day eating cough lollies, and if we miss behaved we were pointed out and had to walk up to the front of her class and stand next to her chair and she then took our hand by the wrist and the punishment would start.

Tech was a lot kinder we use to only get one whack with a piece of 2 inch leather usually the teacher would put all his might into it and ride the leather down, after the punishment was administered I found that warping my hands around the cold steel frame of the desk helped with the pain.

I think primary school most likely is the cause of the arthritis in my hands, I don't think the leather caused any lasting issues physically that is.

I think that I am now mildly well adjusted (I think )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artme

How character building was it to have the skin ripped from your fingers, as happened to my older brother!:?:?:?

I had 53 notches in my desk by the middle of grade 6 - same teacher. Didn't the stupid sadist realise that if corporal punishment worked, it would have worked the first time??????


Yes I think many of us grew up well adjusted DESPITE the punishment. That didn't, and doesn't, make it a good, or even acceptable thing.


Many of you will remember a criminal by the name of D'Arcy Dugan. A friend of mine was a Youth and Community Services officer who ( long aftr D'arcy had left school, and IIRC was dead) had cuase to visit the school attended by Dugan when he was a child. Apparently the punishment book showed that young Dugan was unmercifully lashed on a regular basis. Seemed to cure him, didn't it?:no::no:

I remember reading a punishment book in a school where a child was given 6 "cuts"" for being late for school. Later in the day SHE was given another 6 cuts for sulking about the first punishment!:oo::oo:

Therein lies the problem with CP. It is PUNISHMENt and is open to vile excesses by sadists and frustrated adults.

A far better method for dealing with behaviour problems is to have a system of CONSEQUENCES whereb a set consequence is put in place for a specified offence.

I could go on but you get my drift.

---

As I said, I'm against child abuse.

I had my primary education in Holland before I came here and corporal punishment was unheard of but I had my high school education here in the early 60's.

At our High school corporal punishment was not used instead after school detention was in vogue.

When I was in form 2 one teacher kept me back after school in detention and gave me a clip over the ears. So I returned the favour by ramming my fist into his stomach, as he doubled over I told him that if he ever touched me again my parents would sue him and I walked out.

The next day he was as sweet as pie to me. Goes to show that you only have to show bullies that you are not a patsy and they stop.


Peter.

I remember getting the cuts for bleeding on my science notebook. And you can guess what caused the bleeding, yup, a blood blister broke after a set of the cuts. Late 60's in Sydney.

I have to agree with Artme. Sadistic, cruel and an exercise in pure power play. The character it built in me is a loathing for those who abuse power. It exists to this day. I still have trouble listening to the self righteous, self inflated deckheads who pretend to run my son's schools. Stupid wenkers have never had a real job or faced the realities of running a business. I usually walk out on them before my rage starts to leak out.... It extends to the political and economic classes as well. So Im probably not that well adjusted.

I wouldnt attend a school reunion, although there would be a lot of old blokes there I suppose.

I remember a fitting and machining class our teacher was Mr W, we had discovered that if we scraped the end off match heads into a shallow drilling in the steel marking out table and then hit it with a centre punch it would go off with a bang.

Well one day some one put too much fuel in the hole and when they hit the centre punch it flew off and went through the roof. Mr W came storming out of his office and grabbed the smallest and weakest member of the class and took him into the store room. After a few minutes he called us in one by one, he had the poor sod kneeling on a small stool on his knees with his hands tied behind his back and billets of steel placed on the back of his legs and a heater in front of him. We were all asked the same question "who did it".

Naturally we all kept our mouths shut as we were all afraid the same fate awaited us, the whole class made a representation to the principle and lodged a formal complaint, it fell on deaf ears and the teacher MrW was supported. Odd thing is after that we always had another teacher in the room because we were to hard to handle was the excuse.

I suppose Mr W has now passed away I know that "Crabby Crow" from my earlier post certainly has, if I knew where they were buried I would go and pay my proper respects and urinate on their graves.

I think there was a whole period in history where defenceless children were subjected to abuse, not only with their teachers but parents also. To digress my father use to use his fists on us and he would not stop until we bled and had peed our pants, grew a beard to hide the scars he left on my face, and he wonders why I don't have anything to do with him now!

I don't think I should have gone to the school reunion, it has brought back to many deep memories that I have tried to suppress.

What I'm reading about here are instances of abuse and assault, and not corporal punishment as I understand it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woodwould

What I'm reading about here are instances of abuse and assault, and not corporal punishment as I understand it.

---

I think you are right WW, but at the time it was called "corporal punishment"

Let me ask some questions;

Has corporal punishment ever proved to be totally effective?

How would you describe punishment?

Does corporal punishment punish the mind as much as the body?

I went to a school reunion recently, right school, wrong year -
There were no fat, bald, old blokes in any of my classes at school.
Plenty at the reunion though.

There's nothing character-building about being whipped by a vain, small-minded idiot for no other reason than the fact that you've offended his pathetic ego, which pretty much sums up the situation every time I was caned - not once for doing anything dangerous or hurtful to others.

The only effect it had on me was to increase my contempt for them - contempt which is no less deeply felt 35 years later.

There were plenty of decent, thoughtful teachers who felt no reason to cane anyone and they are the ones who we speak of fondly when we get together for reunions.

I think it's sad when people still feel the need to justify the brutality inflicted on them in those days.

Just call it what it is - there's no need to make excuses for these.. well, let's not call them "men" - they don't quite make the grade.

I was caned numerous times at school. On several occasions I was caned unjustly, and resented it. On several occasions I deserved it roundly, and accepted it grudgingly. I doubt not that several of the men who caned me did it out of sadistic spite rather than out of any sense of justice. And I know that a couple of the men who caned me were decent men who were trying to set me on the right path.

In almost every case the way I was able to tell the difference was whether the punishment was delivered in anger or not. I try to remember this when I administer punishment to my children (whether of the corporal nature or not).

I do wonder how schools are expected to keep problem kids in line today, when so many parents do not offer any support to the schools at all. The problem kids that I see in my childrens' school are those that are parented by stupid, abusive or negligent parents. Not the kids fault - but how is the school supposed to cope?