A Rant- Buying OS

[Cruzi]

Australians are known worldwide for being the most tight fisted people on the planet.

Buying overseas costs a lot more than you think, it takes jobs away from Australian, Australians who have to buy things to keep our economy growing, they do not have the money to buy your hand-crafted items.

Local suppliers have to increase margins becausre volume is reduced which then causes more to buy OS , which then leads to local suppliers closing, along which local support and service.

The balance of trade also continues to blow out, this forces interest rates up as we have to pay off the debt to cover the difference which then puts more ppl out of work which lowers demand and so it spirals out of control.

Buy Australian, if you can't buy Australian, then buy from a Australian Supplier.

Saving yourself a few $ is costing us a lot more.

[Big Shed]

Australians are known worldwide for being the most tight fisted people on the planet.

Buying overseas costs a lot more than you think, it takes jobs away from Australian, Australians who have to buy things to keep our economy growing, they do not have the money to buy your hand-crafted items.

Local suppliers have to increase margins becausre volume is reduced which then causes more to buy OS , which then leads to local suppliers closing, along which local support and service.

The balance of trade also continues to blow out, this forces interest rates up as we have to pay off the debt to cover the difference which then puts more ppl out of work which lowers demand and so it spirals out of control.

Buy Australian, if you can't buy Australian, then buy from a Australian Supplier.

Saving yourself a few $ is costing us a lot more.


Cruzi, whilst I agree with your "Buy Australian" sentiment, the fact of the matter is that it is becoming almost impossible to buy things made in Australia, other than food perhaps.

I drive a car made in Australia (Holden) but often wonder what the "Australian" content really is.

When it comes to buying products made o/seas, I truly don't see the difference in most cases between buying it o/seas or from the Australian importer, there certainly wouldn't be a difference in the balance of trade (or very little anyway).

Your post appears to have been prompted by someone offering for sale an item made in America by Incra, imported by a private individual who is offering it for sale on this forum. He is competing against the official importer of Incra products, paying nothing for advertising, indeed using this forum to run his side line business. The Australian importer meanwhile sponsors a forum here and has advertising costs. Some people, including myself, have politely pointed out that the same item can be imported directly at far less. You requested that we "get off his case".

I have purchased, and will continue to purchase, products overseas. At times the cost of bringing it in from overseas is less than half compared to buying it locally, a Wixey Digital Saw Fence is but one example. I also buy pen kits and blanks overseas that local businesses, don't or won't stock, again often at half the cost of comparable locally stocked (but imported) products.

[Gingermick]

And the fault , of course, lies with the inaction and ineptitude of the previous government.:D :q:oo:

[Cruzi]

And the fault , of course, lies with the inaction and ineptitude of the previous government.:D :q:oo:

As much as I'm not a fan of our previous benevolent overlord, it's not thier fault.

The Australian economy under goes a few very predictable things and one is, as soon as our economy does well Aussie buy overseas, blowing out balance of trade, happens everytime and we are known for it.



I have purchased, and will continue to purchase, products overseas. At times the cost of bringing it in from overseas is less than half compared to buying it locally


Herin lies the problem, of course it "costs" more to buy locally, but it costs a lot more when you continue down the path of buying overseas.

[Gingermick]

Sorry, counldn't help the persiflage.
Currently in the engineering field we are a net exporter of expertise and I believe that exporting service / expertise will help to balance our trade deficit.

[Cruzi]

Sorry, counldn't help the persiflage.
Currently in the engineering field we are a net exporter of expertise and I believe that exporting service / expertise will help to balance our trade deficit.

Current tax regime is killing this, a lot of expertise is moving OS and staying there, nearly did it myself to stop the double taxation !!!

[DavidG]

What would you do in this case.

Teeth for my backhoe cost US$12.00 each from the USA plus postage.
Same teeth from the Austrailian branch of the same company cost AU$50.00 each.:o

[echnidna]

I buy a bit of stuff that is difficult, if not totally impossible for me to get locally.

Fair enough I live in the sticks so I am motivated to buy sight unseen online as I can't cruise down the local tram tracks to woodies goodies emporium.

[Waldo]

Buy Australian, if you can't buy Australian, then buy from a Australian Supplier.

Cruzi, fundamentally I agree with you i.e decreasing reliance on imports to stop are our current trade account deficit going up, but even then that is limited.

My problem is your argument. Buy from an Australian supplier means that's an import item, hence the originator of that item as being oversees has already recieved their payments, so thus essentially supporting a foreign owned item. :?

Will Australia ever develop it's own manufacturing base? I doubt it. India, as an example, in one generation has turned themselves from being reliant on import to now being the second biggest exporter, China being number 1.

[yjnb]

I have to agree with echidna, I live in the sticks. there are no wood work suppliers here. I recently ordered an "in stock item" from Brisbane (closest big smoke) which arrived after 3 weeks. I also ordered some items from lee valley in Canada and these arrived in 4 days. I generally have to buy sight unseen no matter where the item comes from, and as the example i have given shows, if i need it in a hurry, often O/S is the fastest option, as well as the cheaper option.

james (http://www.woodworkforums.com/member.php?u=1292)

[echnidna]

I just bought a bandsaw guide from Rockler in usa , never seen them here.
It arrived within a week.

[glock40sw]

A lot of my firearms parts get bought from the USA. The australian market is so small that the aussie sellers/dealers charge around 100% markup.

EG: a C-more red dot sight can be bought for $250 US.
the same sight bought in Aus is $450 AU.

So...for about $30US for postage I have saved about $150.

God, I love online shopping :2tsup:

[Big Shed]

That is one of the problems with living in the bush, unless you drive to the nearest city you are better off buying from o/seas, particularly the US.

In general, and there are exceptions, Australian businesses are not mail order oriented and our postage charges are almost as high as mailing stuff from the US.

The US websites will tell you whether the item is in stock, if not when they expect it, they will tell you how much it is going to cost to post/freight etc.

In my experience, and I have gone through this time and time again, invariably when you order something here it is not in stock and has to be ordered. To make it economical to get it here, the Oz supplier needs to combine an order, often won't tell you this, and you finish up waiting 2-3 months, or longer, and keep getting fobbed off.

Most of the time you get delivery from the US within 7 days at postage costs not much higher than within Australia.

The reality is that the world has become a global market place, Australian suppliers now have to compete with suppliers in the US, Canada, Hong Kong, China and other places.

I am looking at a set of collets and chuck for my lathe, cost from a local importer (Chinese made) > $330 plus delivery, ex Hong Kong < $100 including delivery. So who would you buy it from?

Call me tight fisted, but my benevolence only stretches so far!

[rodm]

It the outlet does not retail Aussie made then they are just recycling money. Retailers show no loyalty to Australian manufacturers so don't expect me to show loyalty to their shopfront given that their owners are probably scattered all over the world.

I treat retail in the same fashion they treat me. Give me good service and competitive prices and I will go back. Rip me off or be rude then I go elsewhere.

The world is one big shopping village now and it is about time that Aussie retailers adopted this view. They sit on their hands expecting us to accept their terms and prices when they should be out there competing with the same overseas market that I buy from.

Not a rant just my view of things.


Sorry Big Shed I was editing out what read like a rant while you posted a very similar opinion.

[Check twice!]

Kind of ironic, I live in Canada and find the same thing with "big brother in the south" I can buy on line cheaper than local in most circumstances.
I can find items not stocked locally and bring it in cheaper than asking them to order for me. We do have "free trade" but it seems to be free one sided, Hum! I wonder who gets the gravy.

On line shopping is a world wide multi billion dollar buisness and will not go away. We have a world economy and local buisness gets bought out by the big guy or they get put out of business because they can't compete.

I wonder when we will have a "solar economy" :
Place your order now for the newest chisel "made on Pluto". We will then moan about imports from other planets. Don't figure!

Through the eyes of John!
Have a great woodworking day!

[Ron Dunn]

I'm in absolute agreement with Big Shed. With the exception of a couple of small retailers - like Northwood, and the guy who sells Incra stuff - I just don't trust the local suppliers any more.

I'm sick of exactly the situation he describes - order something, then wait MONTHS for it to arrive, and pay more than if you'd ordered it from the US in the first place.

Companies like Mik, Carbatec, etc., have only themselves to blame when woodworkers buy off-shore.

[autogenous]

Same teeth from the Austrailian branch of the same company cost AU$50.00 each

This is not necessarily the Australian retailer. This can be the global company dictating what the price is in Australia.
You may well find that something is cheaper overseas. Anything over I think $800 will be taxed by customs. You also have to declare it in your tax return.

When you purchase overseas there will be a buffer conversion rate (lower than on the TV news) and conversion costs on your credit card.

Theres shipping costs also which people do miss when they do their calculations.

Many companies here are owned by overseas companies any rate.

Sure, some things are cheaper.
Be sure your not chopping your own toes off though.

[rodm]

The figure customs use is $1,000 Aus after conversion and it includes the cost of shipping.

As an Individual taxpayer I am not aware of any requirment to declare overseas purchases in your tax return. If you are buying for a business I would imagine you declare it to claim it as a deduction.

I agree you should consider the total cost when contemplating an overseas purchase.

[autogenous]

Yep your right:

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=5549

Its $800 when you come of a plane into OZ I think?

[Zarguld]

Well I personally feel that if the item from overseas is the same quality or better than than the same product here then 99.9% of us that know how to will buy the overseas item lets face it. even if it does hurt us in the long run to buy the more expensive option would hurt our pockets now for my self I have a wife and seven children so I need EVERY CENT that I can save. and I do think that most other Australian families feel the same way.Plus I export items myself so in fact I bring more money into the country than I send out.Anyway that is my two cents worth,and now I amt ired and ready for bed good night all.

[bitingmidge]

I once was a strict local shopper at all costs.

I believed that by keeping the local store open, they'd be there when I needed a part on Saturday morning.

Well generally they aren't, and if they are, the part isn't in stock and if it is I can get five of them for the same money somewhere else. It's a ridiculous state of affairs, when I can buy Australian (or New Zealand) made tools from Canada and ship them here for less money than buying locally, but I can.

I never count the additional cost of the 250k round trip for me in that equation either.

I quite regularly make photo books. Around 120 pages costs $40 Aus delivered to my door, the last one was 280 pages and cost nearly $80. I had a price to produce it locally at nearly $300.00. The company I use is US based, the printing is done in the Netherlands, on the same model printer the Australian company uses, although I am aware of one company that actually outsources the work offshore. Why would I shop local?

There's something seriously wrong with our economy, or our expectations.

P
:cool::cool:

[TommyC]

Here is an often overlooked upside to the local economy with the popularity of on-line shopping...the business of moving freight is booming. This includes couriers, warehouse workers, logistics workers, warehouse builders, and so on.

[Metal Head]

Will Australia ever develop it's own manufacturing base? I doubt it. India, as an example, in one generation has turned themselves from being reliant on import to now being the second biggest exporter, China being number 1.

I doubt it given past history. Given our own small population (thus economy) is one of the main reasons. The above mentioned countries have the largest populations (as well as poorest) on this planet which must be saying something?

[wheelinround]

Australians are known worldwide for being the most tight fisted people on the planet.
:oo: Cruzi you'll upset the Scots with that comment

Besides they spend constantly on useless Politicans who let it happen, hand out billions to companies to take their business OS supporting them all the way.

Buy Australian, if you can't buy Australian, then buy from a Australian Supplier.

So Blundstone was Aussie is now made in Asia as is Triton do you consider them still to be Aussie suppliers gee even the flamin UG-Boot name was sold off.

Saving yourself a few $ is costing us a lot more. Keeps the local Postal service in work and couriers.

In buying Australian "What is Australian"???

We have engineers going OS to design & build stuff we need here :doh:Scientists doing the same, Governments local state & federal who due to Political BS of who's side are you on who's pocket are you in and how much is in it for me attitude it never happens or takes so long to happen it costs millions more.

Teachers, government employee's, Yuppies working & traveling the world saying how beaut Australia is but dont venture out their own neighbourhood.


Local shopping a joke :roll: who owns the shop thats leased who imports the parts to make the product.??

Ok lets turn this around

Name Aussie makes brands suppliers of good manufactured in AU all Aussie owned designed etc. So we can make the choice going off a sticker is useless you can print them up from images off the net:U.

Power tools I :no: can't think of any
Motor Vehicles NONE Ford & Holden are OS owned

I know there is a tool box manufacturer in Geelong makes/designs great tool boxes but puts many brand names on them but are built in Asia.

[Zarguld]

Wheelin I could not have said it better my self because most of the larger companies in Aust. are overseas owned so you are right what is Aussie owned hell if you want to get politcal about it most Australians are from overseas and I am sure many of them send money oveseas just to give to their families so lets just start doing a lot of exporting to even it out....

[Big Shed]

Holden might be OS owned, but at least it provides a lot of work for Aussies, they also export a lot of their product, not only assembled cars but also lots of engines.

If you buy a Vectra or an Astra it might be made in Germany or Belgium, but it is powered by an engine made in Port Melbourne.

Ownership of the company is not the complete story, Blundstone is Australian owned, but all manufacturing has moved off shore, Hills hardly makes anything locally anymore, in fact they have sold off their main site in Adelaide.

I will buy a product made in Australia before I will buy an imported product, but it is getting increasingly difficult to determine what "Made in Australia" stands for. Just look in your local supermarket and see the number of products that have "Made in Australia from local and imported products". I followed up on this statement once, a well known jam brand. Turns out only the jar was made in Australia, the jam came from Denmark!

[wheelinround]

Holden might be OS owned, but at least it provides a lot of work for Aussies, they also export a lot of their product, not only assembled cars but also lots of engines.

If you buy a Vectra or an Astra it might be made in Germany or Belgium, but it is powered by an engine made in Port Melbourne.
Ownership of the company is not the complete story, Blundstone is Australian owned, but all manufacturing has moved off shore, Hills hardly makes anything locally anymore, in fact they have sold off their main site in Adelaide.

I will buy a product made in Australia before I will buy an imported product, but it is getting increasingly difficult to determine what "Made in Australia" stands for. Just look in your local supermarket and see the number of products that have "Made in Australia from local and imported products". I followed up on this statement once, a well known jam brand. Turns out only the jar was made in Australia, the jam came from Denmark!

That would make Blundstone not Australian made then :doh:

Even the Humble AKUBRA I had heard at one stage is now owned by OS. :roll:

[Gingermick]

I'm in absolute agreement with Big Shed. With the exception of a couple of small retailers - like Northwood, .

What about ubeaut?

[Sawdust Maker]

Veritas Medium Shoulder plane (I'd like one!)

from Lee Valley US$ 174 add say generous $50 express postage gives US$ 224 conversion plus bank conversion rate will get you up to about AU$250
Australian price $319, plus the half to 3 quarter hour drive to pick it up, and come home (another 1/2 to 3/4 hour drive)

why should I pay the extra $69.00 to shop locally? for that I could pick up a wixey and still be in front:!

[Sawdust Maker]

Bvgger, should have bought a HNT

[Daddles]

Veritas Medium Shoulder plane (I'd like one!)

from Lee Valley US$ 174 add say generous $50 express postage gives US$ 224 conversion plus bank conversion rate will get you up to about AU$250
Australian price $319, plus the half to 3 quarter hour drive to pick it up, and come home (another 1/2 to 3/4 hour drive)

why should I pay the extra $69.00 to shop locally? for that I could pick up a wixey and still be in front:!

It depends on what else you're 'buying'. If you driveg into your local shop, spend an hour or so discussing the various weapons with a knowledgeable bloke, choose exactly the right one for your purposes plus learn some stuff you didn't know about using/maintaining it, you are buying service and the use of his knowledge as well. Add to that a warrantee that can be honoured with a short drive and maybe other specials, and the price begins to narrow. Of course, none of this applies if you already know it all, don't intend to buy other stuff from the shop, the manufacturer has a crap warrantee policy or the shop is one of those places that treats every customer like a generic wallet.

The other thing to consider is that if you cultivate a good relationship with a good shop you visit often, you can gain quite of lot of extra value - discounts, advice, immediate servicing in emergencies (as opposed to booking it in for next week), sales staff that understand YOUR needs as opposed to treating you like one of the herd, etc. However, you can not build up this relationship if you buy all your stuff over the internet ... and it depends on what it is we're talking about, sometimes the online purchase is the best option.

Richard

[Mickj]

Economics 101 - The Law of Comparative Advantage : Countries should specialise in fields that they have a natural advantage over their competitors.

The reality is that Australia has never been a strong manufacturing country, and they never will. We rode the sheeps back(in the 50's) and now we're riding the shovel. We are good at taking advantge of our natural resources, but we're not good at investing back into the country and creating value added industries.

We have a car industry that should of shut down years ago. The cost of an Australian made Family sedan is so ridiculously high, yet the government still has to subsidise it for it to survive.

People then demand high wages so that they can afford the new car.............and there the spiral continues.

We're a high developed, well educated country, yet we continue to hang onto an old fashion view of where we fit in this world.

Just my 2c

[underfoot]

Economics 101 - T
We're a high developed, well educated country, yet we continue to hang onto an old fashion view of where we fit in this world.
Just my 2c

Nailed it Mickj!

also worth remembering,

we have a "working" population of about 11 million people (depending on which stats you believe)
Beijing has a "working" population of 12.3 million (again, depending on stats)

[Sebastiaan56]

Economics 101 - The Law of Comparative Advantage : Countries should specialise in fields that they have a natural advantage over their competitors.

The reality is that Australia has never been a strong manufacturing country, and they never will. We rode the sheeps back(in the 50's) and now we're riding the shovel. We are good at taking advantge of our natural resources, but we're not good at investing back into the country and creating value added industries.

We have a car industry that should of shut down years ago. The cost of an Australian made Family sedan is so ridiculously high, yet the government still has to subsidise it for it to survive.

People then demand high wages so that they can afford the new car.............and there the spiral continues.

We're a high developed, well educated country, yet we continue to hang onto an old fashion view of where we fit in this world.

Just my 2c

Yup, lets just give up and let the country be bought by the Yanks, Japs, Chinese, whoever. As a small local manufacturer I deplore this lay down and die attitude. We have children to feed, future generations to think about, do you want them to become economic slaves? Once the minerals are dug out and the profits sent overseas then what will we have left? And they will run out, commodity prices are strong at the moment but also spend decades in the doldrums, this boom wont last. Then there will be less Australia left for the future (literally, pun intended).

Mate, we've got to do something for the future, spending our borrowed wealth overseas seems to me to be a one way track to nowhere. I try to buy Aus where I can, because the bloke Im buying off is trying to make a living as well. The taxes paid build our society and provide a future for my kids. Sending it OS is just peeing it away as far as I can tell.

[wheelinround]

What about ubeaut?


Aussie owned

Surely Neil makes his products using all Aussie products and manufacturing equipment.

He exports :2tsup:

Sabastian's stuff is Aussie made ok its made in OZ

Why dont we manufacture in OZ for the same reason we whinge about Tradies costs, engineering costs, Union interferance, government interferance.:~

[Big Shed]

Surely Neil makes his products using all Aussie products and manufacturing equipment.


Whilst I am a very satisfied user of Ubeaut products, I would doubt that even our intrepid leader would have difficulty sourcing Aussie shellac and a lot of his other raw materials:no:

Regardless of the origin of the raw materials though, the end result is a great product that works very well. Beauty Neil.:2tsup:

[Mickj]

"..Mate, we've got to do something for the future.."

Exactly my point...we are, AGAIN, taking the easy route.
We are not reinvesting in areas where we have a natural advantage.
We can't complete with the Chinese & Indians. And its not just labour costs, its also the lack of regulation.
OH&S....no such thing in China.
Copyright....no such thing in China
The list goes on and on.

We can't compete, because we play by the rules.
So my opinion is ... lets play a different game.

[Andy Mac]

I know a guy who builds caravans here and tried at one stage to source local supplies of ply and laminate for benchtops. It turned out he can land already laminated (Laminex) oak ply direct from Canada for half the price of ply AND Laminex supplied locally, which he then had to glue together!!:oo: Why would he bother, especially when the ply was pine not oak?
Ditto with power tools like Makita drivers, he buys in boxed sets (with torch and drill etc) for well under the local price of just the driver; and I've already mentioned on another thread that he buys in bulk Robertson style screws for under half the local price.
Groceries are higher priced here than equivelents in NZ, UK, Canada, US etc, and then the big two complain that our local conditions mean we can't be compared!?!:((

It seems to me that Govt. duties plus the cut middlemen take, make prices way too high but are somehow untouchable.

Have a good day!

[wheelinround]

Whilst I am a very satisfied user of Ubeaut products, I would doubt that even our intrepid leader would have difficulty sourcing Aussie shellac and a lot of his other raw materials:no:

Regardless of the origin of the raw materials though, the end result is a great product that works very well. Beauty Neil.:2tsup:

Use it also not knocking it

Just pointing out that eve he may have to use imported products or buy off OS owners of companies here.

[wheelinround]

I know a guy who builds caravans here and tried at one stage to source local supplies of ply and laminate for benchtops. It turned out he can land already laminated (Laminex) oak ply direct from Canada for half the price of ply AND Laminex supplied locally, which he then had to glue together!!:oo: Why would he bother, especially when the ply was pine not oak?
Ditto with power tools like Makita drivers, he buys in boxed sets (with torch and drill etc) for well under the local price of just the driver; and I've already mentioned on another thread that he buys in bulk Robertson style screws for under half the local price.
Groceries are higher priced here than equivelents in NZ, UK, Canada, US etc, and then the big two complain that our local conditions mean we can't be compared!?!:((

It seems to me that Govt. duties plus the cut middlemen take, make prices way too high but are somehow untouchable.

Have a good day!

Andy love the new avartar :2tsup::2tsup:

Makita warehouse just down the road :rolleyes: wonder if they do 2nd's sales

agree or should that be greed Andy

lets say the attitude is "OK so I can't make it here that cheap I'll import it at cost, Then add import duties etc shipping etc union rates for workers and 100% for myself" :roll:

[Bleedin Thumb]

Australians are known worldwide for being the most tight fisted people on the planet.

Really...news to me

Buying overseas costs a lot more than you think, it takes jobs away from Australian, Australians who have to buy things to keep our economy growing, they do not have the money to buy your hand-crafted items.

Local suppliers have to increase margins becausre volume is reduced which then causes more to buy OS , which then leads to local suppliers closing, along which local support and service.

The balance of trade also continues to blow out, this forces interest rates up as we have to pay off the debt to cover the difference which then puts more ppl out of work which lowers demand and so it spirals out of control.

Buy Australian, if you can't buy Australian, then buy from a Australian Supplier.

Saving yourself a few $ is costing us a lot more.


Sorry but what us poor consumers buy and from whom has very little influence on the Trade deficit figures.

The trade deficit figures are more to do with :


1. Bottle necks, restricting our export volumes and


2. Our own governments defence spending on weapons upgrades as well as business, manufacturing and mining acquisitions of plant and equipment.


So you can sit back and sip on your Perrier without feeling guilty.:)

[Check twice!]

I know a guy who builds caravans here and tried at one stage to source local supplies of ply and laminate for benchtops. It turned out he can land already laminated (Laminex) oak ply direct from Canada for half the price of ply AND Laminex supplied locally, which he then had to glue together!!:oo: Why would he bother, especially when the ply was pine not oak?
Ditto with power tools like Makita drivers, he buys in boxed sets (with torch and drill etc) for well under the local price of just the driver; and I've already mentioned on another thread that he buys in bulk Robertson style screws for under half the local price.
Groceries are higher priced here than equivelents in NZ, UK, Canada, US etc, and then the big two complain that our local conditions mean we can't be compared!?!:((

It seems to me that Govt. duties plus the cut middlemen take, make prices way too high but are somehow untouchable.

Have a good day!

I listen to you say you can buy cheaper from Canada, I say I can buy cheaper in the USA than my own country. Don't figure!

Our country is a resource for the manufacturing companies outside our own country, our manufacturing is weak and we live the fine life from our natural resources.

I wonder what we will do when we run out of resources?

We live in a global economy and other countries not as well off as ours have a work force willing to work for much less than ours so the out sourcing of manufactured goods makes good money sence.

It all boils down to dollars and cents, not the well being of our economy.

I wonder if you as an individual were working for "Joe local" and a company from another country built a competeing plant beside "Joe local" and offered you a job making more money, would you take it? This is the carrot that dangles infront of business as well as ourselves and they have to answer the question, do I stay local or go where my take is greater.

These are all decisions, we all have to make on a day to day basis.

Do I buy where it is the cheapest, Yes! Why, because it is good for my pocket.

We have to think global and not regional to compete in a global world in the 21 century.

Through the eyes of John

Have a great woodworking day!

[Andy Mac]

also worth remembering,

we have a "working" population of about 11 million people (depending on which stats you believe)
Beijing has a "working" population of 12.3 million (again, depending on stats)

Yes, I agree, but isn't Canada's population pretty close to ours, and they seem to trump us on competitive pricing?


Andy love the new avartar :2tsup::2tsup:
Thanks mate! A couple of years out of the last one, and kept seeing that little guy on Blacksmithing forums! This one is a light box/shadow theatre I made

agree or should that be greed Andy

lets say the attitude is "OK so I can't make it here that cheap I'll import it at cost, Then add import duties etc shipping etc union rates for workers and 100% for myself" :roll:

A-Greed!

Cheers,

[Cruzi]

Sorry but what us poor consumers buy and from whom has very little influence on the Trade deficit figures


"Poor" consumers imported $4,650,000,000 in Febuary, a lot more than Defence.

It is the sad truth that a lot of that figure is goods that Australia simply does not make, but a 25% reduction would put our Trade balance into black.

As I said in beginning, our actions have consequences, despite all the denial, be aware that they do.

[Pheonix]

My wifes cousin runs a rubber company, he is always in the Far East buying and has branched out into hospital equipment,from what he tells me you can take a drawing,blueprint whatever over there and within 24 hours you will have at least six companies willing to manufacture the item for you all at differing prices,all around half of your best price in Australia.What chance have we got? :(

[echnidna]

China will go the way of Japan in the future.
Their costs & prices will increase,
then India will be the cheap place,
after India will come African countries.

[Big Shed]

China will go the way of Japan in the future.
Their costs & prices will increase,
then India will be the cheap place,
after India will come African countries.

Spot on echnidna, was reading an article that stated that Adidas is pulling out of China because of rising costs and increasing "regulation". So they will have to find another country with slave labour and lax rules.

[ubeaut]

:aussie3:U-Beauts little bit.
U-Beaut is all Australian
All our own products were designed/formulated here in Australia, by me.
The business is entirely owned and staffed by Australians, me and Pauline (even though she was born in Scotland, she's been here for 50 years and that's close enough for mine).
Everything we manufacture is made right here in Geelong Australia.


Where possible we buy Australian made raw/base materials.However....... and here comes the rest of the story.

For us like most others it's impossible to have everything 100% Australian and here's why:
Shellac - (the good stuff) comes from India and is processed all around the world depending on the quality and grade you require.
Carnauba wax - Comes from Brazil.
Ozokerite - From Germany, USA and other expensive places.
Tripoli Powder - mined and refined in USAMost of our other raw products come from Australia.

Paraffin wax - we buy from the local manufacturer even though we can get it for less than half price from China.

Mineral Turpentine - Well, it's a petrolium product, so who knows where it is sourced from all I know is we pay a whopping fuel tax on every litre we buy.

Ethanol (metho) - Locally produced, mostly by CSR.

Bottles and jars - all locally produced and again all perto chemical so who knows where the base stuff for manufacture comes from.

Packing boxes (fibreboard/cardboard) - all locally made from recycled paper.

Labels all locally made from locally manufactured paper.

My random thoughts:
We're being slugged with higher and higher prices for everything petro chemical from fuel to containers, solvents, waxes, yes and even clothing. China can and is producing most petro chemical products miles below the same thing in Australia. The USA can produce the same stuff for way less than in Australia.

It makes sound financial sense for many Aussie manufacturers to go off shore to manufacture or buy goods. It is getting harder and harder to manufacture in Australia and say it is an all Australian Product.

As a 2 person (with a little help from time to time) we find it virtually impossible to get a worker to do what we require at our speed and to our standard. We have proved it time and again. We spend more time fixing others mistakes and low standard work practices than we would spend doing the job ourselves. I'm glad we aren't a bigger business because personally I reckon we'd be out of business unable to compete in no time.

I won't even bother going into the Export of Dangerous Goods side of the business. That's a whole 'nother story which gets worse with every shipment we send. Thank you 9/11......

Finally:
I could fill a small book with problems and why it would be better to import everything from overseas or manufacture everything overseas.

Price for most people is the bottom line.

Pride in what we do, pride in producing the best product we can and pride in being Australians, is Pauline's and my bottom line. With that in mind we have always sourced as much as possible right here in Our Own Back Yard (Australia) and will continue to do so as long as my bum points to the ground.

Sorry just gotta do it....:aussie3:AUSSIE, :woot: AUSSIE, AUSSIE :drunk22: OY, OY, OY, :aussie5:

Cheers - Neil

[Pheonix]

Onya Neil and Pauline:2tsup:

[Arthur Dyason]

Australia is not part of Opec but all our petro chemical related products are priced as if we are.

This is mainly due to the fact that the big petro chemical companies are NOT australian (European or US owned) and are screwing the australians for every cent they can.

Australia (thanks to Howard) is selling LPG to china for 12c per lt delivered so why should we be paying the price we are at the pump. So the US companies can make profit!!!!

Shell pays very little corporation tax in australia. One reason is they pay $100M in royalties for using the shell logo. This should be money remaining here in australia. Most non- australian multi national companies are doing the same costing the australian tax payer billions of $ in tax evasion legally supported by the Australian government!!!!

Australia has its own oil and even with extraction, processing and duty costs we should only be paying 60c per lt for our fuel. We are currently paying twice what they are in the USA. Again ALL the profit going to US corporations.

With steel and other resources they are all priced on the US commodity market which makes it cheaper to manufacture abroad and import the steel back to australia.

If you take the cost of extraction of the raw materials and local manufacturing costs australia should be the cheapest source of the manufactured products and have every other country buying from us but NO the multinationals again determine the price of OUR raw materials and the Australians get sharfted again with ALL the profits going abroad.

a 25% export tax on raw materials would enable every australian to receive $50K per year tax free. Think about that when the next election comes around!!!!!

arthur

[Big Shed]

Arthur, whilst I am a bit reluctant to defend the multinational oil companies, I think that some of your figures are just a tad misleading.

First of all, part of the reason for the high cost of petrol at the pump is govt excise with GST on top of that, ie a tax on a tax. Currently excise + GST accounts for about (round figures) $0.55/litre of petrol.

Secondly, petrol (or as they call it, gas) is selling in the US, depending where you live for $US3.30-$US3.50, with some place as high as $US3.99, per US gallon (3.78litres)
If we take $US3.50 as an average figure, that equates to $US0.93 per litre, which is $A1.01 per litre. If we then add the $A0.55 of excise, you get to $A1.56 per litre. I don't know how much excise there is on the US petrol cost, but as you can see the differential is not as high as you state.

Our govt in its' wisdom has tied the oil price in Australia to the TAPIS (Singapore) crude price, likewise the LPG price is tied to the Saudi Index.
In case you were wondering why the price of LPG has risen as much at it has over the past 12 months, Suaid CP price in Jan 07 was $US545, in Dec07 it had risen to $US860.

Having said all that, I'm not suggesting that the oil comapnies are doing it hard!!!:no:

I am not that fussed about the cost of petrol, I have had a dual fuel car for years, I really can't see why people drive petrol cars:no:

[Arthur Dyason]

If we take .50 as an average figure, that equates to .93 per litre, which is .01 per litre. If we then add the .55 of excise, you get to .56 per litre. I don't know how much excise there is on the US petrol cost, but as you can see the differential is not as high as you state.


Big Shed

the US price includes duty and sales tax so you cannot add the australian GST and Duty to the price you get from the US.

Here in the northern rivers of NSW we are paying over $1.50 per lt with regular pricing of $1.70. On your calculations of $A1.01 thats basically 50% more we are paying than in the USA.

Aussie tax is $0.55 plus the gst part. Production and transport relate to another $0.20 to $0.30 per lt depending where you are from a refinary. Most retail outlets wil tell you they only make 10% on fuel so that leaves 50% plus going back to the US corporations. If you want to check these figures look at the public company tax reporting to see how much its costing the companies and how much profit they are actually making.

I agree with you about petrol cars as here in australia we have the potential to produce 100% Biodiesel at a fraction of the cost of petro chemical diesel with the majority of profit going to aussie farmers. Even if the price is the same I would buy just because its Australian grown and owned:D

[Big Shed]

the US price includes duty and sales tax so you cannot add the australian GST and Duty to the price you get from the US.


No, the US prices on the pump never include sales tax, that is added at the check out and varies from state to state, generally 6-8%.


Aussie tax is $0.55 plus the gst part. Production and transport relate to another $0.20 to $0.30 per lt depending where you are from a refinary. Most retail outlets wil tell you they only make 10% on fuel so that leaves 50% plus going back to the US

The $0.55 includes the GST component already, you can't add it twice! Even our govt is not that brazen!


I agree with you about petrol cars as here in australia we have the potential to produce 100% Biodiesel at a fraction of the cost of petro chemical diesel with the majority of profit going to aussie farmers. Even if the price is the same I would buy just because its Australian grown and owned:D


That opens a whole different argument, grwing fuel where we used to grow food, it is a big factor in the rising price of various foods around the world, eg corn in the US now goes to ethanol plants and the price of corn is going through the roof. Meanwhile poor people can't afford to eat!

I say again, what is wrong with using LPG, less pollution less CO2 emmissions and it is a by-product of the oil refineries that gets burned off!

Bio diesel and ethanol can only compete with oil based fuels with govt (ie tax payer) susbsidy. A bit like wind and solar power really.

[pharmaboy2]

writes....

well cleared up Big Shed!

Orstralia is short of workforce, and fully employed. that is a situation that if anything will drive inflation up and hence interest rates, and reduce our relative competitive advantage.

Wages growth and inflation are bad mmm kay. Guess what - when you buy Orstralian for the sake of buying Australian without regard to cost, you simply encourage inflation, and encourage the workforce to sell their labour in areas that cant compete over the long term.

long term is very important -you can be prepared to spend twice the money on a pair of williams boots, but sooner or later, there's not enough of you, and williams heads over to asia to manufacture - all your good deed did was extend the inevitable.

[Buzzer]

Well......... I buy goods and services from who ever suits ME best. I don't care about the supplier, if they are Australian or from overseas. If the service or quality siuts ME, I will speak with my wallet.

It is becomoing more common they are from OS, which can be done at the click of a mouse!!

[Gingermick]

China can do things cheaper as they sometimes use broad brim hats with foam on top as hard hats. They're building a 1600 foot high building and instead of scaffolding, the just walk over the beams (400 wide and 200m above the ground). Saw this other method for scaffolds, Three blokes standing on a plank while one went to the end (over what drop I don't know). Cantilevered with a good factor of safety, but crikey it looked ominous

[joe greiner]

No, the US prices on the pump never include sales tax, that is added at the check out and varies from state to state, generally 6-8%.

Not so anyplace I've seen. Sales tax might be included somehow, but most places the pump itself is the checkout, and a credit transaction is untouched by human hands; except in New Jersey where fuel transfer must be done by an attendant.

Our gummint has a "Department of Commerce" whose original mission was to encourage domestic production as well as export. Now, they seem to be devoted to allowing offshore HQ's that are little more than a letter drop and a phone booth, all with tax-free incentives.

The late David Brinkley beat me to the quote farm, but soon enough our Gross National Product will be reduced to doing each other's laundry.

Joe