Should the Indian Cricket Team go Home?

[Sebastiaan56]

I was going to start a poll, but what the heck.

The mood was ugly in India, monkey taunts and other abuse. I was at the SCG on Sunday and have to say I was quite ticked at the very slow over rate during the Aussie innings. But Kumble is a fighter and his innings deserved much more respect than it got. And yeh, the umpiring could have been better.
Umpire Benson needs glasses.

Should they go home?

[bitingmidge]

What's wrong with the odd racial taunt anyway?

"Monkey" is bad, but if they'd called him a "Goose" it would have been OK.

Who decides these things?

They've given it their best shot, lost the cricket match, lost the sledging match, lost the umpire intimidation game, so now they'll go home blaming the big bad Aussies for not fighting fair.

That's how they'll save themselves from the wrath of the fanatical public.

Or does saying that have some sort of racial connotation too??

P
:D:D:D

[jmk89]

What's wrong with the odd racial taunt anyway?

"Monkey" is bad, but if they'd called him a "Goose" it would have been OK.



"Monkey" is the internationally recognised form of racist taunt to black sportsmen - if you go to a soccer match in Europe it is not uncommon for the crowd to heckle black players every time they receive the ball with monkey noises. And the clubs get fined for this if it happens on the basis that it is racist.

So for anyone to use "monkey" to a black sportsman is to use a word as bad as calling an indigenous Australian a "boong". So far, 'goose' means "fool'" or "dill" but is not racist.

[Wongo]

On the other hand, in India calling someone a 'goose' is rasist.

[Waldo]

G'day,

I don't follow cricket but you can't miss it in the news.

For my 2¢ I agree that "monkey" in the context might be offensive, but if I call Wongo a goose, is that racist? :shrug: :no: :U (it might just mean that I dfidn't have my glasses on and there happened to be a real goose standing next to him at the time and got all mixed up - no offence meant at all Wongo-San :2tsup: )

On other matters to do with the current test:

• the umpires should get the boot as they can't see for quids

• Ponting has lost it.

• Australia have long been too arrogant

• Australia are well known for sledging, so now that they're getting their own back - tough titties

• India are being badly treated

[Poppa]

Is it? I never knew that? Why is 'goose' racist in India?

For mine, the Aussies were a little unsporting and overenthusiastic in the second test. But not to an enormous extent, and not worse than any other team these days. Appealing loudly is part of the game, appealing for a catch that wasn't is part of the game (not a part that I like). I would prefer that players walked, and that the game was played with a more sporting spirit. But apart from being a bit more fiercely competitive than they should be, I can't see that the Aussies did a lot wrong in this test.

The umpires were shocking. Bucknor should have retired some time ago. His eyesight is appalling and his mental agility is non-existent. Benson seemed equally incompetent. It is the worst collective performance I've seen from umpires since the days before independent umpires were introduced (I still remember what the Pakistan umpiring was like when they were at home).

However, it should be remembered that the umpires were independent and impartial. The fact that India got the bad end of the decisions in this test is just the luck of the draw - sometimes it will go the other way. To complain about incompetence is fine - these guys were incompetent in this test. But to complain about bias is just bad sportsmanship - sour grapes if you like.

As far as the racial taunt goes, I think that it needs to be stamped out, and given that this isn't the first time that Harbhajan has called Symonds a 'monkey' (it happened on the one day tour of India as well), he deserves to be called on it and then penalised. And the Indian team and officials should accept that rather than bleating on about it and threatening to take their bat and ball and go home.

Imagine for a second if an Australian player had racially taunted one of the Indian players. Would they have left it on the field? Should they have? Imagine the uproar if someone had racially taunted Ganguly. What would the Australian team and management reaction be?

I wonder if the Indian team would be complaining so loud and long if they were winning? Does anyone else thinks this smacks of sour grapes? Poor losers methinks...

The Indian team and management is bringing the game into disrepute. The question shouldn't be "Should the Indian cricket team go home?" - it should be "Should we continue the test tour against the Indians given their petty and unsporting attitude, or should we withdraw the invitation and send them home?"

[HappyHammer]

On other matters to do with the current test:

• the umpires should get the boot as they can't see for quids

• Ponting has lost it.

• Australia have long been too arrogant

• Australia are well known for sledging, so now that they're getting their own back - tough titties

• India are being badly treated
:2tsup::2tsup:

HH.

[Waldo]

I wonder if the Indian team would be complaining so loud and long if they were winning? Does anyone else thinks this smacks of sour grapes? Poor losers methinks..."

:yes:

(not to be hypocritical with what I said in my first posts - but I think there are two sides of the same coin here.)

[Wongo]

Is it? I never knew that? Why is 'goose' racist in India?

I am sorry Poppa, you missed the point.

[Groggy]

What Waldo said :2tsup:

Funny how it only seems to bother anyone when money might be lost from the tour.

If they are not sending players off the field for racial taunts then who really thinks they are serious?

Call someone a monkey and get sent off, field with ten; or, be given out if it is a batsman. Anything else and it ceases to be about sportsmanship and the game and more about money and politics.

[Big Shed]

I am sorry Poppa, you miss the point.

I'm sorry Wongo, Poppa is not the only one "missing the point". So, what is the point?

[silentC]

Bet it wouldn't be happening if India were two up.

Sooks!

[Pusser]

I understand that Simmonds or someone did call him a "bastard" which outside of Australia is not a term of endearment and can even be taken as a grave insult. In any case Simmonds is on record as saying he did not care about being called a monkey. Ponting lost it by reporting it. I know he was only obeying the ICC directions but he cannot escape responsibility for his actions. He should have been sensitive enough to the situation and let it go through to the keeper and avoided all this rubbish. The fact that we can call them a bastard and they can't call us a monkey wreaks of double standards. India got a raw deal from shocking umpiring and Ponting should have displayed better judgement.

[HappyHammer]

Whilst the Aussies may not use racial taunts I bet some are close to the mark when playing England. I think they should just get on with playing cricket. I don't think it's up to the umpires to police sledging, either leave it in and let the players take care of it or take it out completely.

Ricky Ponting should take a leaf out of the All Blacks book and stop flaunting his handbag in public.:U

HH.

[Wongo]

I'm sorry Wongo, Poppa is not the only one "missing the point". So, what is the point?

I made it up.

I call you a monkey. You think it is racist. I think it isn’t racist.
You call me a goose. I think it is racist. You think it isn’t racist.

Now who has the correct answer?

[silentC]

The fact that we can call them a bastard and they can't call us a monkey wreaks of double standards.
It's up to the Indian captain to complain if he feels anything offensive has been said to a member of his team. I'm sure you'll be hearing more on that soon. BTW I think it was Brad Hogg who called Anil Kumble (the Indian captain) a bastard, not Symonds.

[Cliff Rogers]

I still don't understand why somebody's mother would want to wear army boots to bed. :?

[Big Shed]

I made it up.

I call you a monkey. You think it is racist. I think it isn’t racist.
You call me a goose. I think it is racist. You think it isn’t racist.

Now who has the correct answer?

OK, now I get it:D

Maybe we should have an official sledge register where all words that can and can't be used on the field are listed, anything not on the register can then be referred to the third umpire for a decision:doh:.

I think the whole situation is too farcical for words, like silent said, this wouldn't be happening if India was 2 up.

[bitingmidge]

• Australia have long been too arrogant

And who was the most arrogant captain of all? One Chappell I. The one throwing the big stones now!

P
:wink:

[Wongo]

Lets just ban cricket all together. Stupid game.:~

:D

[silentC]

Whilst the Aussies may not use racial taunts I bet some are close to the mark when playing England.
Of course sledging was invented by Aussies, wasn't it? :)

[Waldo]

You call me a goose. I think it is racist. You think it isn’t racist.

Uh oh. :(

:brick:

[Waldo]

Lets just ban cricket all together. Stupid game.:~

:D

:2tsup:

(21 secs - bugger)

[bitingmidge]

The Australian Cricket Board has lost it.

I've never felt so warm and welcome (not) than at the last match in Brisbane, except perhaps for the one before it.

Apart from warnings everywhere about racial taunts, which made me too scared to order Chinese takeaway in case I was misinterpreted, they have security people and police patrolling up and down the aisles all day like teachers overseeing an exam.

I'm against racial abuse in any way shape or form, but the odd taunt is OK!

P
:D:D:D

[HappyHammer]

I think the whole situation is too farcical for words, like silent said, this wouldn't be happening if India was 2 up.

Errr If Ricky hadn't gone crying to the umpires about the name calling everyone would be moving on to the next match.

HH.

[brettsyoung]

There are a series of issues here.

I reckon it's fair to bag the Aussies for their unsportsmanlike sledging. But it's not new, it's been embarrassing me for thirty years. The cricket administrators should do something to eradicate it from the game. You just don't see at the lower levels of the game, not sure why it's tolerated at the senior level. Cricket Australia needs to get the house in order that the Australian team have inherited - ie one that encourages yobbo behaviour.

All that said, sledging is not against the rules. Racial vilification is. Another rule is that what the umpire says goes, regardless. I can only see one rule broken during this game: calling someone a monkey knowing it's against the rules.

Having a bleat to the press about the opposition's sportmanship is cowardly and no way for a captian to address the issue. And denying the behaviour of a racist boor is similarly unleaderlike. The power of the Indian cricket dollar and press should not dictate the future of the game. Notwithstanding the need to get some gentlemanly conduct back into the Australian game, I can see the cricket world splitting into two camps if this south Asia v the world attitude continues. When umpires are no longer protected they will flee the game and the game will be doomed.

[Cliff Rogers]

.... but the odd taunt is OK!....
Like a fart in their general direction? :p

[Waldo]

Apart from warnings everywhere about racial taunts, which made me too scared to order Chinese takeaway in case I was misinterpreted, they have security people and police patrolling up and down the aisles all day like teachers overseeing an exam.

The thought police/politicaly correct garbage is getting way out of hand and it's come to the point like Bittingmidge said, what's a good day out (whatever it may be) has been taken away for fear of what might be said/done or other). But, in some cases like soccer and tennis it's warranted - to a degree.

[Gingermick]

I call my daughter a monkey all the time. I wasn't aware I was racially abusing her. :oo:

[DavidG]

Where is the 'rats ring' option.

[Waldo]

Where is the 'rats ring' option.

Tut, tut, careful, rats are Indian gods. :U

[Wongo]

You see racism is an interesting subject. A lot people use it as a weapon to their advantage.

In Hong Kong, we call white people a white ghost (or a red hair ghost), black people a black ghost and something else for the Indians. We use these terms as a nick name only, nothing else. I know a lot of you will go bananas and I fully understand that.

My FIL still calls me a bloody Asian when I walk into their house. Sometimes he even threatens to call the police. Cheeky bastard. As much as he hates Asian, he let his daughter to marry one.

So racist or not, it is up to you.:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

...My FIL still calls me a bloody Asian when I walk into their house. Sometimes he even threatens to call the police. Cheeky bastard. As much as he hates Asian, he let his daughter to marry one....
Does he tell you to put the money on the fridge?

[HappyHammer]

In Hong Kong, we call white people a white ghost (or a red hair ghost), black people a black ghost and something else for the Indians. We use these terms as a nick name only, nothing else. I know a lot of you will go bananas and I fully understand that.
Ahh like Australians use the word pakkies for the pakistani's but this word would never be used in English commentary or newspapers as it is seen as a racist comment in the UK.

HH.

[Geoff Dean]

Errr If Ricky hadn't gone crying to the umpires about the name calling everyone would be moving on to the next match.

HH.

Err if any Aussie had of called Kumble a curry muncher there would have been Hell to pay.

And before anyone jumps in about Hogg calling Kumble a bastard, this did not raise its head until AFTER Harbijan was found guilty of Racial Abuse, (something that he had already done to Symonds in the past and was warned about doing again)...in other words Kumble thought being called a bastard was a non event...now he is just trying to go tit for tat, and that is pathetic.

All the Indian players are now trying to do is deflect the criticism that would have greeted them for losing the series when they got home.

They are as guilty of hell of inciting racial vilification and violence...look at the burning of effigies of the umpires and placards with the umpires names on them.

They are the greatest lot of hypocrites in world sport. I hope they pack up and go home like the sooky la las that they are.

As for Ricky Ponting...good on him for sticking up for a team mate.

[bitingmidge]

and don't try to call a spade a spade in England.

P
:oo::oo::oo:

[HappyHammer]

and don't try to call a spade a spade in England.

P
:oo::oo::oo:
Mate some councils in London changed the colour of the bin bags they issued from black to grey to avoid any racial overtones....:doh:

HH.

[HappyHammer]

...in other words Kumble thought being called a bastard was a non event....
Exactly unlike Ricky who ran off to tell the teacher....:q

HH.

[Wongo]

:clap3:

[Buzzer]

I heard on the news this morning, India control 80% of the worldwide cricket income.

Is all this caused by the bottom line,(money)?

[dazzler]

"Monkey" is the internationally recognised form of racist taunt to black sportsmen - if you go to a soccer match in Europe it is not uncommon for the crowd to heckle black players every time they receive the ball with monkey noises. And the clubs get fined for this if it happens on the basis that it is racist.

So for anyone to use "monkey" to a black sportsman is to use a word as bad as calling an indigenous Australian a "boong". So far, 'goose' means "fool'" or "dill" but is not racist.

Poor widdle cricketeers,

Indians calling them names :oo:. The australian team have been the worst sledgers in history, talk about the pot calling the kettle.....cant say "black", cant say dark, what about the pot calling the kettle devoid of light perhaps.

When I was a kid I grew up in a small county town and was called "Effo" or "Wogboy" by the aboriginal kids and "Abo" by the white kids......sheesh, better get some councilling. And they all called me "Mowgli", the jungle book kid.

Maybe Andrew needs to look in the mirror, dreadlocks, big white lips ...fair dinkum, he looks like a golliwog doll :rolleyes: .

See ------ http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cgo0065l.jpg

God save us - how did we ever get through Gallipolli and Kokoda :rolleyes:

[dazzler]

And another thing,

If the indian said it and Andrew was so upset why didnt he sit him on his ????? :2tsup:, at least push him over.

Instead he turns to teacher - "He called me names" Blubber blubber blubber. :rolleyes:

Where is the wit?

Remember Boonies retort to:

"Why are you so fat Boonie?"
"Cause everytime I sleep with your mother she gives me a cookie" :D

Grow up sooks!

[Geoff Dean]

Exactly unlike Ricky who ran off to tell the teacher....:q

HH.

Except that:
1. Captains have been told they have to report Racial Vilification
2. Harbajan has done this before
3. Harbajan was warned not to do it again, and did it again

Racism is ugly and needs to be stamped out. Anyone who thinks it is not OK to dob in this type of behavior is worse that the racist IMO.

If you are a white anglo saxon you are a target for everyone other than white anglo saxons. Any comment, gesture, look etc is interpreted as being racist, yet we have to endure all sorts of the same back without it being construed as racist.

Calling someone a name regardless of their color, religion or ethnic background does not always make it racist. (though the monkey comment cannot be construed in any other way, Harbajan was told it was racist, yet he chose to repeat the name the next chance he got.)

If I call someone an idiot it's not because I am racist, its because I think they are an idiot. (and I am not calling anyone here any names either:D)

[bitingmidge]

Maybe Andrew needs to look in the mirror, dreadlocks, big white lips ...fair dinkum, he looks like a golliwog doll :rolleyes: .
And you don't think that's deliberate?

Nor the going through the right channels?

It's interesting I think, that it hurts so much when the coppers are brought in. How clever is it to taunt someone into making a mistake?

It's the best way of gaining control over an opponent. Have him lose the plot. That's what's happened isn't it? If he'd simply gone the biff or threatened, then there'd be no sting in that, but to actually dob, and to take the decision making process to the international board... well that's really had an impact.

Why are the Injuns going to pull out? Because they've been caught out by the INTERNATIONAL rules of cricket.

What does all this do for Ponting and Symonds' chance of a big fat 20/20 contract in India? HEAPS --- the world needs bad guys. Who were the best paid WWF Wrestlers, the good guys or the bad guys?

Wake up.

This is all about publicity, and money.

P
:D

[Geoff Dean]

And another thing,

If the indian said it and Andrew was so upset why didnt he sit him on his ????? :2tsup:, at least push him over
Grow up sooks!

Cos violence is not the answer




Where is the wit?

Remember Boonies retort to:

"Why are you so fat Boonie?"
"Cause everytime I sleep with your mother she gives me a cookie"

That question is derogatory the reply is derogatory. Both are funny, ITS NOT RACIST.

Doesn't anyone remember that Darren Lehman was suspended for three matches for calling a South African a kaffir. It was in the Australian dressing rooms, and was not heard by any of the South Africans yet he got 3 matches.

Makes me think that Harbajan got of lightly

[HappyHammer]

Except that:
1. Captains have been told they have to report Racial Vilification

Yeah but they're big boys surely they can sort it out between themselves.

Racism is ugly and needs to be stamped out.

Agreed but when people are provoked through any type of sledging some react in an extreme manner not usually within their character which may or may not be the case here.

If you continually badger me about something you're gonna get a mouthful of something I might not mean but will say to get across the point I'm not happy. This is the aim of the Aussies when they sledge opposition players to unsettle them to the point of a reaction and when they get the reaction they run off to the umpire, it's about time they grew up and took it on the chin like those they dole it out to.

HH.

[Wongo]

Breaking news



Jelena Dokic has signed on for the Australian Open play-off. :D

[Geoff Dean]

it's about time they grew up and took it on the chin like those they dole it out to.

HH.

Agree with everything you are saying, except when its racist. Lets just agree to disagree on this one. :D

[Ron Dunn]

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.

Do you know any tertiary education lecturers? Ask them what happens as soon as an Indian student fails an assignment or examination.

Call their bluff. Let them take their bat(s) and ball(s) and go home if they wish.

[jmk89]

I think that it is worth remembering that the ref who dealt with this is Mike Proctor, a man whose cricket career was terminated because he represented South Africa. If anyone knows what is racist and what a destructive force racism can be, it is Mike Proctor. He is totally unfazed by all this: Proctor (http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/ausvind/content/current/story/329599.html).

As for the "dobbing" accusation against Ponting - the ICC told captains to do this so that the ICC could show that they were not going to tolerate racism. Harbhajan did the crime, he should do the time. If someone else has done the same or a similar crime, they should do time too.

[Geoff Dean]

Yeah but they're big boys surely they can sort it out between themselves.
HH.

No because then the ICC isn't aware of what has happened, and when you get a repeat offender there is no record of those previous offences.

[Big Shed]

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.

Do you know any tertiary education lecturers? Ask them what happens as soon as an Indian student fails an assignment or examination.

Call their bluff. Let them take their bat(s) and ball(s) and go home if they wish.


Bit xenophobic isn't it?

All English people are soccer hooligans?

All Australians are beer swilling hoons in stubbies and thongs?

[MrFixIt]

Hi



• the umpires should get the boot as they can't see for quids

• Ponting has lost it.

• Australia have long been too arrogant

• Australia are well known for sledging, so now that they're getting their own back - tough titties

• India are being badly treated

What really gets me is that Australia are VISIBLY CHEATING it's absolutely clear on the videos shown on the media, yet they STILL win that's NOT right :((.

To top THAT off the people interviewed on the Andrew Simmonds incident AGREED that he sould NOT walk.

On the tv survey, 71% voted that Simmonds did the RIGHT thing. That's 71% that AGREE with CHEATING AND DISHONESTY.

The Australian team are degrading themselves and bringing the game of cricket down. To use an old phrase...

"It's just not cricket!"

*IF* Australia win another match and make it an unbroken 17 matches in a row (a new record) THIS match will always be remembered and the Aussies will ALWAYS be thought of in wonder, people will wonder if the Aussies could have done the same by playing HONESTLY - BY THE RULES!

In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low.

[Geoff Dean]

To top THAT off the people interviewed on the Andrew Simmonds incident AGREED that he sould NOT walk.

On the tv survey, 71% voted that Simmonds did the RIGHT thing. That's 71% that AGREE with CHEATING AND DISHONESTY.

So using the logic that if you hit it and don't walk you are cheating because you know you are out, then equally if like Ponting, you hit it into your pads and are then given out LBW, you shouldn't go because you know you are not out.

If a batsman has to accept the umpires bad calls of out against him, then it is only fair that they can also take advantage of an umpires bad calls in his favour

It is up to the umpire to say whether you are out, not up to the player to confirm it for him.

[Groggy]

As a kid I can remember batsmen being given 'not out' and walking anyway.

That is sportsmanship, and leaves a strong impression on kids. I shudder to think what kids are learning from this.

[Andy Mac]

Couple of things about this, to my way of thinking anyway, the Indians are more upset about losing the match, hence the series, due to some questionable umpiring decisions. Rightly or wrongly, they copped the brunt of what can go either way in any match, and not just in cricket. Their reaction to the outcome of the 'racial vilification' incident is just the straw that broke the camels back, and I doubt they would have spat the dummy about losing one player if they had won the match. Maybe the umpiring decisions need more video checking if disputed, but leave it all up to them (as in walking or not walking, or dubious catches being 'verified' by the captain). Let the umpires do the job they're paid to do, as is the case in every other sport, but their performances should be monitored.
About the sledging, I personally think its an excellent weapon on the field, and one that Australian's have used to great effect for a long time. Some of it can be pretty funny, in fact an old mate of mine in Perth who was a captain of a grade team and an extremely witty guy, reckons some of the funniest things he ever heard were said on the field...obviously aimed at the opposition with one intention, to unsettle them. Maybe other cultures don't take the p*ss as much as Poms and Aussies.
I'm sure racial taunts are/were part of that, but no longer acceptable, so perhaps its time to move on. The ICC see it as their mission to stamp it out, so every team needs to abide by the same rules. However, IMO, comments like monkey and curry muncher aren't really racist, not in the same league as life affecting racism (I mean hanging negroes for relations with a white gal, or refusing employment on basis of colour). They are just comments that we have all copped somewhere in our lives that we turn our back on. And in the time honoured tradition of sledging they don't rate... not funny, no intelligence required, just attempted insults from someone that can't think of anything better. Get over it!:D

[Wongo]

You have to remember that cheating, lying, protesting ... any form of trying to take advantage ... is a way of life in India.


Tell us more Mr Righteous.

[Geoff Dean]

As a kid I can remember batsmen being given 'not out' and walking anyway.

That is sportsmanship, and leaves a strong impression on kids. I shudder to think what kids are learning from this.

It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.

What do 99.75% of players do...they stay.

Gilchrist is the only player that comes to mind who has recently walked...and he doesn't do it all the time, only when he thinks he hit it, and he has been shown to snick them and not walk, and get away with it.

Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!

[NCArcher]

Hi



What really gets me is that Australia are VISIBLY CHEATING it's absolutely clear on the videos shown on the media, yet they STILL win that's NOT right :((.



*IF* Australia win another match and make it an unbroken 17 matches in a row (a new record) THIS match will always be remembered and the Aussies will ALWAYS be thought of in wonder, people will wonder if the Aussies could have done the same by playing HONESTLY - BY THE RULES!

In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low.

Please point out any rules that have been broken. Australia has played within the rules. The Indians can pack up their bat and ball and go home for all i care. It looks like a big case of sour grapes to me and they are trying to salvage something back home. If they lose 3 straight the Indian fans will be burning effegies of their own players.

[Groggy]

It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.

What do 99.75% of players do...they stay.

Gilchrist is the only player that comes to mind who has recently walked...and he doesn't do it all the time, only when he thinks he hit it, and he has been shown to snick them and not walk, and get away with it.

Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!No news in there Geoff. I don't follow the cricket or football any more for precisely those reasons. It used to be that cricket was a test of character and skill, hence it being called a gentlemen's game. Now, like other sports, there is nothing noble about it, it is just a grubby scramble for cash, not something you would want kids to role model themselves from.

[Ron Dunn]

Wongo, there's an old Malaysian saying which goes:

"If, when walking through the jungle, you come across an angry cobra and a smiling Indian, kill the Indian first".

I've found its sentiment to be good advice.

[Wongo]

Keep going

[ernknot]

"Monkey" is the internationally recognised form of racist taunt to black sportsmen - if you go to a soccer match in Europe it is not uncommon for the crowd to heckle black players every time they receive the ball with monkey noises. And the clubs get fined for this if it happens on the basis that it is racist.

So for anyone to use "monkey" to a black sportsman is to use a word as bad as calling an indigenous Australian a "boong". So far, 'goose' means "fool'" or "dill" but is not racist.
Yes, poor bloody monkeys can't defend themselves. Common Punter, give them hell in Perth.

[Geoff Dean]

No news in there Geoff. I don't follow the cricket or football any more for precisely those reasons. It used to be that cricket was a test of character and skill, hence it being called a gentlemen's game. Now, like other sports, there is nothing noble about it, it is just a grubby scramble for cash, not something you would want kids to role model themselves from.

Its sad, :( but that is the way it is. Look at all the problems world wide across all "sports" now with performance enhancing drugs, gambling, both legal and illegal, it is all about money.

The players are having a lend if they think we look up to them as "sportspersons" all they are is employees of whatever parent organisation, be that the AFL, Cycling Australia, Swimming Australia, or in this case Cricket Australia.

They are no more role models to Australia's youth than what I am. They are people who perform a function for there employer, just like you and I do.

We make them role models because we say they are, in most cases they have no say in it...and that is wrong.

[Sebastiaan56]

Unfortunately SW Asian customers are the only ones that I insist on 100% deposit when they order from me. Bitter experience. Similarly I found a high degree of discrimination in India. As a whitey I copped some rather rude remarks from hosties, cabbies, bank, immigration and hotel staff. But then the caste system is alive and well there isnt it. Its the only country Ive been where I dont want to go back.

But that is not the point, as someone said would they be so noisy if they had won or drawn, which it looked like they would.... till the 2nd last over. From my point of view Kumble was man of the match for sheer bloodyminded stubborness in defending his wicket. There was a lot of very determined play by both sides, a brilliant test match, the best in years.

I think its all just a way to sell a few more newspapers, both here and in India.

[OLDPHART]

Bl..dy oath padre!!And take their bats with them:((

[MrFixIt]

So using the logic that if you hit it and don't walk you are cheating because you know you are out, then equally if like Ponting, you hit it into your pads and are then given out LBW, you shouldn't go because you know you are not out.

If a batsman has to accept the umpires bad calls of out against him, then it is only fair that they can also take advantage of an umpires bad calls in his favour

It is up to the umpire to say whether you are out, not up to the player to confirm it for him.

There is NO excuse for being dishonest, period!

It takes a big man to "do the right thing" under difficult circumstances, Andrew Simmonds is no longer such a big man in the eyes of kids etc. This kind of play / attitude is teaching young people it's ok to be dishonest expecially if you can get away with it.

To walk when you know you're not out, but the umpire has ruled you out is ALSO "doing the right thing".

As has been mentioned, this is SPORTSMANSHIP!

Sportsmanship, ha! that's almost dead and buried in cricket. So much for what USED to be called the "GENTLEMANS" game - there are few such gentlemen in the Aussie team.

The saying "what goes around comes around" is true and some repercussions are in process now.

I gather you are within the 71% whereas you can gather I am in the dwindling minority of 29% that STILL think honesty is the best policy. :2tsup:

NO offence or agitation is intended in this post :)

.

[MrFixIt]

Please point out any rules that have been broken. Australia has played within the rules.

Andrew Simonds hit/nicked the ball and was caught. According to the rules, that is OUT. Andrew Simonds stayed at the crease even though he knew AND ADMITTED that he knew he was out - THAT is cheating!!!


If they lose 3 straight the Indian fans will be burning effegies of their own players.

More likely the Indians will be burning effigies of the Aussies or the umpires because the Indian loss may be due to the cheating or bad umpiring.

[MrFixIt]

It's no longer sport...it is big business, a huge moneymaking venture for all involved, with players careers on the line. Walk after a first ball snick and your career could be over or stay and make 100 and get a new contract for next year valued at $400,000, and an extra $5-600,000 in endorsements.


This is STILL no excuse for being dishonest!!! :no: :no:

What you are implying is that it's ok to cheat and stay at the crease and then accept payment for being DISHONEST :o


Walking only puts more pressure on an umpire...Was that a snick? No couldn't have been, this guy walks, must be not out!

WHAT? :? It puts LESS pressure on the umpire if the umpire can rely on the honesty of the batsman to walk if he knows he was out - that honesty has long since gone .

[astrid]

Gentlemen, and i use the term loosly
I, as an ex cricket fan have been waching this thread, most comments re racism are trying to be even handed.
but one or two of you are displaying a hatred bordering on the fanatic.
I think we all know that some comments and name calling are racist in intent.
as somone pointed out, one oz to another, the term bastard can be a term of endearment.
I think only a fool would try to argue that Monkey, kafir, boong etc are not deliberate terms of racial abuse.

The joy of cricket used to be in the good will and sportsmanship teams displayed to one another, the ovation given to clive lloyd springs to mind.

This seems to have disappeared and dont blame the media they only feed off the spectators.

Some of you are a discrace to australian sport.

Astrid


thats why

[Poppa]

MrFixIt, you seem to be under the impression that there once was a golden age in cricket when everyone walked when they snicked a ball and were caught behind. This "Golden Age" never existed. WG Grace (yes, the doctor himself) stated that he would never walk. Many prominent players throughout history have stated that they would never walk. Some of the greatest players in history were not walkers. Some players were, and there has been a time, particularly at first class level and below (but not above) when walking predominated. But it was never universal.

I played a fair bit of cricket in my youth, and I've watched a lot more and read about much more than I've watched. I always walked. But I played with a lot of players that didn't, and to my mind I thought they should, as a moral thing. But it isn't against the laws of the game not to walk. I know of two brothers (related to me - I know them well), one always walked, the other didn't believe in walking at all. Which of them is right? According to the laws and history of cricket, both of them are right. I have come to accept and even respect that one person's views on this subject are not necessarily valid for all. Symonds is not a cheat. Ponting is not a cheat. They are both permitted, within the laws and traditions of cricket, to not walk. As they are to walk if they choose. Having known a couple of umpires in my time, they always reckoned that the worst type of batsman to officiate in front of was the bloke that walked sometimes - because they never knew if he was 'out' or not. The truth is you are 'out' if the umpire gives you out.

Now personally, I would prefer that all players walked. But I would also prefer not to have a third umpire. I'd prefer to rely on the decision of the umpires on the field, and I'd go so far as to stop any slow motion replays from square of the wicket, or things like hawkeye and snicko. In my opinion these things undermine the authority and respect that umpires are entitled to. I believe that the performance of every test umpire should be formally reviewed after every test match, by the ICC, and the panel of umpires should consist of those umpires that consistently perform at a high level and without bias. I think that would sort these problems out.

Bucknor has now been dropped from the next test, which I think is the right thing to do. But it shouldn't have been done because India complained - it should have been done because of his poor performance (and he has a recent history of such poor performances unfortunately). Benson also had a shocker. The appointing of umpires shouldn't be reliant on whether a team complains.

Unfortunately, I think Harbhajan will be 'exonerated' of the racist charges, because of political pressure. IMHO, he is clearly guilty as charged, and the Indian team management should be reprimanding him rather than supporting him. That they are not, and are instead attempting to cast aspersions on the Australian team diminishes them and the game that they are meant to support. I am appalled that the game that I love so dearly is coming to the stage where it is being run by money and politics rather than by the truth. Personally I couldn't care less if there was no money involved in test cricket. It would still go on, because there will always be blokes like me who would play for free.

Someone else's turn....

Edit: I also meant to include one of the best sledges I've ever heard of (courtesy of Fitzy in the SMH). The Voss brothers were playing against each other in the AFL, and the younger was lining up to take an important kick at goal. The elder, standing on the mark, just before the kick, says "My dad slept with your Mum". Incontrovertible, and completely effective (the kick missed).

[Geoff Dean]

Poppa, you couldn't have said it any better.:2tsup:

[Woodlee]

Lets just ban cricket all together. Stupid game.:~

:D

I was going to suggest that , but didn't want to be sledged.:D



Kev.

[Pusser]

I like the assumption implicit in



Unfortunately, I think Harbhajan will be 'exonerated' of the racist charges, because of political pressure. IMHO, he is clearly guilty as charged,


There is no evidence other than Symonds and Gilchrists statement. The other statements were hearsay - Punter and the rest apparently said that Symonds told them he said it. Tendulka on the other hand claims that it was not said. On the evidence of the game who would you believe? He may well have but the evidence is a bit thin.

I don't care if they walk or don't walk as long as they are consistent. Punter clearly was out caught behind but elected to await the umpires decision. When given out to a dodgy LBW later on he had a tanty on the way to the dressing room and let everyone know it was a dodgy decision. If he accepts the first decision then he should accept the second one. IMHO I think it would be better for the game if no one walked and everyone accepted the decision without the selective tantrums.

[boban]

Remember Katich having a dummy spit while he was walking back to the pavilion in the Ashes loss. It was a bad decision but he still got fined.

Notice how there is no talk about Dravid's dummy spit..

I'm sick of them already.

In any event, the Indians are hopeless. How can a country of one billion not produce 11 decent or consistent players (at any sport for that matter).

What gets me is that this team were playing for a draw at best. A draw. They didn't cop 10 bad decisions in getting out for 200 odd runs again. They are just crap. Nothing new there.

[ptc]

Wot Waldo said.
and
"In MY book the Aussies are just cheats at cricket and MY personal opinion of the team has reached an all time low."
It has caught up with them at last.

[Wood Borer]

Rich, spoilt, bad sport Indian players.

ICC putting money before the game.

Aussies sooking and dobbing being little goody goodies.

It wasn't just the Indian side that lost, it was international cricket.

I'll now treat cricket as I do AFL - as a joke and ignore it apart from celebrating whenever those 2 sports/corporates encounter problems.

Let's hope they all go broke and a new organisation takes their places so we can enjoy top level sport without emphasis on money and politics.

[bitingmidge]

These issues could all be solved you know, by allowing the crowd to have fun again.

Bring back racial taunts, bottled drinks, cameras, cut lunches, backpacks, mexican waves, beer snakes, and pretty much everything else.

If the ACB allowed the crowd to have fun, no one would give a bugger about a curry muncher calling a golliwog a monkey.

No one would care about crook decisions either, the umpires would get the shellacking they deserve at the time, and wouldn't make so many bad ones in a day for fear of genuine crowd retribution.

P
:rolleyes:

[LGS]

Remember Katich having a dummy spit while he was walking back to the pavilion in the Ashes loss. It was a bad decision but he still got fined.

Notice how there is no talk about Dravid's dummy spit..

I'm sick of them already.

In any event, the Indians are hopeless. How can a country of one billion not produce 11 decent or consistent players (at any sport for that matter).

What gets me is that this team were playing for a draw at best. A draw. They didn't cop 10 bad decisions in getting out for 200 odd runs again. They are just crap. Nothing new there.

Boban's right. Regardless of whether Symonds was out or not, the Indians were unable to bowl a ball that repeated the "out" until he reached well into his hundred. They were comprehensively beaten in Melbourne, could not maintain their wickets for 78 odd overs in Sydney, despite their much vaunted batting lineup and now, won't play unless they have a new umpire. I also wish they'd just flounder on home now.

Rob

[meansy_wood]

i am so over hearing about this at the moment but.. the indians should really get over it. theyre accusing the aus team of being bad sportpeople where as they are the ones that cant get over a few mistakes.. they should really listen to themselves as it is ONLY A GAME

now im satisfied:D:rolleyes:

[Sebastiaan56]

I note that 70% of the ICCC's revenue is from India. As usual money talks

Sebastiaan

[Andy Mac]

These issues could all be solved you know, by allowing the crowd to have fun again.

Bring back racial taunts, bottled drinks, cameras, cut lunches, backpacks, mexican waves, beer snakes, and pretty much everything else.

If the ACB allowed the crowd to have fun, no one would give a bugger about a curry muncher calling a golliwog a monkey.

No one would care about crook decisions either, the umpires would get the shellacking they deserve at the time, and wouldn't make so many bad ones in a day for fear of genuine crowd retribution.

P
:rolleyes:

Now Peter, that's just being plain too sensible:D:D!

Cheers,

[SPIRIT]

l dont like cricket,,, l love it ,,ow yer :D

[Geoff Dean]

A very well written article:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=343765

[HappyHammer]

This seems to have disappeared and dont blame the media they only feed off the spectators.
A little naive but you're welcome to your opinion of course.

HH.

[NCArcher]

Andrew Simonds hit/nicked the ball and was caught. According to the rules, that is OUT. Andrew Simonds stayed at the crease even though he knew AND ADMITTED that he knew he was out - THAT is cheating!!!



More likely the Indians will be burning effigies of the Aussies or the umpires because the Indian loss may be due to the cheating or bad umpiring.

It is not now nor has it ever been up to the players to determine who is out. That is the job of the umpire. Get your facts straight. No rules were broken apart from the racial vilification rule.
You can call it bad sportsmanship or poor judgement or whatever but it is NOT cheating.

[Wood Borer]

All this commotion about the cricket has caused people in India to burn images of Aussies and to say nasty things about us.

I wonder what reception Indian Call centre pests will get over the next few months when calling Aussies as we are about to eat dinner.:((

[OLDPHART]

A litle publicity ,warranted or not,brings the crowds in,look at the attendances in Sydney,29.000,day1,29000,day2etc,etc,day 5 10,000.Long way short of bumper crowds at the time of year when Joe Public has time on his/her hands
If I were in Perth I would boycott the bl..dy test.
Trying to rip the public off as usual:((

[lesmeyer]

Gentlemen, and i use the term loosly
.......

The joy of cricket used to be in the good will and sportsmanship teams displayed to one another, the ovation given to clive lloyd springs to mind.


Astrid

I see that the very same Mr Clive Lloyd has stated that the ICC is a disgrace for replacing Steve Bucknor as Umpire for Perth. He is respected as a great sportsman and can be listened to. The message being that the Umpire's decision is final. If the cricketer shows dissent regarding an umpire's decision, he is usually fined. That is how it should be.
The Indians did not respect the Umpires decisions (good or bad). They have made a grave mistake by demanding a change of umpire for Perth. This just shows what a bunch of SORE LOSERS they are.
Les

[Poppa]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post links to youtube here or not, so I won't, but you might be interested to look at a video there of Harbhajan being clean bowled by Pietersen (England) in a one-dayer and not going. Yes, he was clean bowled, and still didn't walk. Not only that, you can clearly hear Harbhajan tell Pietersen to f-off. These are the actions of a gentleman cricketer I'm sure...

[Sebastiaan56]

post it Poppa, post it, I love dirt!

Sebastiaan

[Poppa]

OK, but only on the condition that it is spread far and wide asap!

YouTube - Harbhajan VS Pietersen

[ernknot]

what a "good sport" he he.

[Big Shed]

Good to see he was playing in the spirit of the game!:(

[bitingmidge]

Now there's something that's beyond me...

You've got an Indian Captain saying he told the Australian Captain NOT TO REPORT the breach of the rules.

And an Australian Captain who's copping a bagging for doing so.

What is this? Some sort of funsies backyard game?

P
:rolleyes:

[hairymick]

Why doesn't anybody remember what Symmonds had to put up with in India last time the Australians were over there?

I reckon the Indians should just p!ss off home. I won'r miss them. I really wont.

For the record, I dont care what race a player may or may not be but the Indians are trying to manipulate an outcome to suit their needs.

Sledging is, and has always been a part of the game. The Indians are masters at it. They just can't produce a team that is worth a damn at the moment.

They have been caught out doing the wrong thing so now they threaton to abandon the tour? Bloody good on them. Again, they can just p!ss off as far as I am concerned.

[Sebastiaan56]

Well 70% of ICCC revenue comes from India, so they make the rules now..... Guess we'll have something to say at the one dayers when they come back to the SCG.


Must sell a lot of papers back home.

[Poppa]

I read Roebuck's column this morning - God I'm sick of him. He seems to think that the row that is going on will be good for Australian cricket and that he was only calling for Ponting's sacking to stimulate discussion and now that he's done that he should be patted on the back. I'd like to 'pat' him on the back really hard with a blunt object. In his column this morning he indicates that Harbhajan did say 'something' to Symonds, and that he later apologised. If he didn't say anything bad (as Harbhajan insists and I just don't believe), then why did he apologise? Ridiculous...

[Ashore]

The question asked at thje start of this thread was "Should the Indian Cricket Team go Home? (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?p=660572#post660572) " and the simple answer is they wont be able to after perth if they are soundly beaten , they will have to claim refugee status cause it wont be safe for the if the indian fans get to them :o

[bitingmidge]

I read Roebuck's column this morning - God I'm sick of him. He seems to think that the row that is going on will be good for Australian cricket and that he was only calling for Ponting's sacking to stimulate discussion and now that he's done that he should be patted on the back. .

Why don't we call for Roebuck's castration.

"To stumulate discussion".

P
:D