artificially fading ceder

[astrid]

gee wizz, its me again.
I seem to be getting a wave of clients with unusual tastes.
this mornings client has a very distressed old cedar table that she wants me to refinish leaving all the patina including cracks old holes and small burn marks.
actually it is quiet lovely in a very rustic way.
i am pretty sure its only been waxed there dosent seem to be any polish

she wants the whole table the same faded yellow as where it has sun faded.
any idea's
I want a gentle effect.
she also wants a more durable surface than the wax
I usually use cabotts DO but should i seal with shellac in case there is any wax residue.
this is what I normally do but I am always looking for new ideas.

astrid

PS I dont use pollys because I have a stubborn prejudice against them as I have seen too many beatiful antiques cheaply tarted up by dealers that I usualy have to strip off.
I am a bit old fashioned and even use meths to strip when I can.

[MacS]

Astrid,

Why, don't you first do a test on the top, to see if its contaminated or not, then you can decide on what to do.

Something to ponder.

Rule #1 - "All finishing starts with a sample."

[tcowdroy]

You could try a hydroponics type high wattage uv light. They're supposed to simulate sun light, so they might do the job.

For a finish, you could check out some of the marine finishes available for teak. Some of them are quite handy, especially some of the Flood company products like Penetrol.

Good luck

[MacS]

I suggest using an airbrush and the anionic metal complex dye stains for blending in the fading.

MacS

[Cruzi]

Not helpful to you, but fading cedar seems a bit like using Huon pine for chipboard, an utter waste.

[Toymaker Len]

It might be possible to fade it with household bleach. I'd try gently rubbing it back with steel wool then dabbing on a weak solution of bleach and letting it dry. It might raise the grain too much and then start to ruin the patina but could be worth trying in an inconspicuous place. This may not be yellow enough though. I do understand the clients need to match the faded bit. The rubbing back might help blend the two shades too. Then a finish with shellac followed by good varnish wiped on in several very thin coats. How about a pic of before, during and after ?

[Arch Stanton]

You could try a hydroponics type high wattage uv light. They're supposed to simulate sun light, so they might do the job.


Good luck

I'm thinking along similar lines. I've given my girl friend a piece of mahogany to take to the solarium with her. I am interested to see the difference after a few sessions.

Of course I realise it might be a bit hard for Astrid to walk into the Solarium with a table under her arm.

[rsser]

I'm no expert Astrid but colouring timber is tricky, and colouring some while leaving the rest intact would be double that in spades.

I'd back away from this brief as fast as reverse gear would take me ;-}

A light restore might be acceptable to the client; ie. light sanding back and then some coats of Shellac (the last one ubeaut Hard Shellac) and then one or two of Tradwax. Then the client might want to put it out into the sun at her risk.

[Added: I tarted up my own Queen Anne blackwood dining table by sanding right back, bodying up with some brushed coats of Shellac, then a coat of Poly on top. Like you, I don't like Poly but there were kids in the house and I certainly didn't want to be nagging them about what they put on the table. The Poly scratches though and can't be spot repaired. Over 20 years I've only had to redo it once and it doesn't look too plastic.]

[astrid]

thanks guys
I totally agree re the huon and chipboard remark, and i did warn the client that lighening dark timber is pretty near impossible without looking artificial.
i think I.ll try oxalic on a unobtrusive bit,
if it bleaches ok and if it darkens the sunbleach thats ok too!
there are so many holes small burns and little stains on this piece one or two more wont matter.
cheers
astrid

[astrid]

washed down top with oxalic acid
didnt touch the colour but it took out most of the grubby look leaving the nice stuff .so now i have a clearer timber but still with one deeper red patch in the centre( probably had a cloth on the middleof the table)
a uv light would be fun to try but i havent got one.
Ill try a bit of houshold bleach next (carefully)
I can patch up the more obvious yellow, dilute some subtle stain and apply to sweep the grain growth to look like a natural variation of the timber
I dont know how to do the photo thing i'll have to get my 14 yo to show me!!:U

astrid

[Cruzi]

Can't believe I'm contributing to this abhorance, but read recently that lye (never heard of it) and peroxide placed after each other cause a reaction that fades the timber colour, needs thorough rinsing.

Same book says that oxalic acid will remove stains from wood but not bleach it.

It also suggests that yellow dye stain will brighten up some woods.

[astrid]

as i said i agree but we are talking about a natural patina here.
if a client wanted to bleach good cedar i would try to talk them out of it.
I used to be a purist but it upsets the customers so i do what i can.
I have used amonia and peroxide to bleach but it really knocks you out and the effect is too harsh.
I think i'll just tell her coulnt do it
astrid

[Cruzi]

Please don't take me too seriously, my comments are a little tongue in cheek, you must do the best you can for your clients.

Dang my sucky spelling, abhorrence

[astrid]

hi rissr, cruzi

just about finished the table
after giving a light sand, the colour evened itself up,
i suspect the red was put on by the cowboy dealer that sold this,
and faded in most places, it realy has an extrordinary number of "ageing" products applied to the base
given that the client wants to maintain the well used look,
its pretty acceptable.
the DO is going on well.

astrid

[rsser]

Well done Astrid.

Need pics!

[astrid]

I didnt take a "before" pic so if i showed an "after" i dont think you'd be too impressed.
I promis i'll get my daughter to show me how to post pictures.
a description.
imagine a cedar table left in the garden for two years with stuff piled on it at random and left in the sun.
now use it as a general workbench for about 3 years
take a dealer who gets out the nail gun to fix down the warped top ramming a few bits of kauri to fill in the broken toung and groove not bothering to stain them. gives it a wax

now get a client that wants the surface more durable but not fill in the holes or sand it. she wants it to look the same but more even colour and water reistant but not shiney

however, i've taken the top off, pulled together and re glued about 8 splits
replaced the kauri with cedar shim.
lightly sanded and applied about 4 light coats of DO rubbed back with 0000 SW.
It now looks softly rustic instead of firewood
this is the market I work in, mostly
Ive a georgian penbroke in at the moment for a re glue clean and wax
I like to save old furniture that most restorers would think past repair.
and at a cost effective rate
hence I an not very rich:no:
but I love my job:U
astrid