Illegality of repairing electrical equipment

[Sturdee]

Normally I don't participate in electrical type of threads anymore as it is illegal to do your own wiring and repairs in Australia, and I will not aid or abet someone to break the law.

However the following needs to be corrected.



My understanding is that doing your own non-fixed wiring is legal in Australia. (I’m happy to stand corrected if I’m wrong.) Therefore, why can’t we ask and discuss how to repair a (non-fixed wired) appliance?




In Victoria the ELECTRICITY SAFETY ACT 1998 - SECT 38 provides that a person must not carry out or offer to carry out or hold out that the person carries out or is willing to carry out any class of electrical work that, under the regulations, is a prescribed class of electrical work for the purposes of this Division unless the person is-

(d) licensed under this Division as an electrical equipment worker in respect of electrical equipment work of that class.

Electrical equipment is defined by the said act to be :

"electrical equipment" means any appliance, wire, fitting, cable, conduit or apparatus that generates, uses, conveys or controls (or that is intended to generate, use, convey or control) electricity;



Further Section 57 of the Act states:

Prescribed electrical equipment

(1) Energy Safe Victoria, by notice published in the Government Gazette, may declare that any class, description or type of electrical equipment is, from a date specified in the notice, prescribed electrical equipment for the purposes of this Act.

(2) A person must not supply or offer to supply electrical equipment prescribed under sub-section (1) unless the equipment-

(a) is approved by Energy Safe Victoria and is marked as prescribed .... (etc)


Regulations under this provision made By Energy Safe Victoria are detailed here (http://lodge.ocei.vic.gov.au/Search/downloads/PrescribingOrder.pdf) and your attention is drawn specifically to the " Appliance Connector".

From this it is clear that any electrical appliance using a cord and plug to connect to the Electricity supply is an electrical equipment which can only be repaired by a licensed person. No doubt other states are the same.

So those that thought they could repair their own appliances are wrong and it is illegal in this state. So if the appliance doesn't work take it to an authorised repairer.


Peter.

[dazzler]

Party Pooper :wink: :D

[ozwinner]

I worked for a company that is situated in country Victoria in a previous life.

And they had me wire up aaaaaaall their Wool Presses over a period of about 3 years, Im talking 1000's.

When I enquired if what I was doing was legit, they told me not to worry as the onus was on them to get them wired properly as I was just a dumb employee.

Man, I was even doing all their 3 phase stuff. :cool:

Al :U

[Frank&Earnest]

Normally I don't participate in electrical type of threads anymore as it is illegal to do your own wiring and repairs in Australia, and I will not aid or abet someone to break the law.



You are only perpetuating a self serving mith about the electrical profession, hopefully in good faith. See my post in the "taboo" thread.

[echnidna]

I know what you are saying Peter
BUT

Radio/Tv technicians work on mains powered electronic stuff,

So where do they fit into the regulations you have stated.

p.s. I agree that home electrics should be prohibited in normal situations.

[chrisp]

Peter,

Thank you for your post and the relevant links. I've been having a read but I find the legal terminology and definitions somewhat confusing. One extreme reading would be that we need a licensed person to "connect" our "appliances" to the "supply". So does this mean we cannot plug in any electrical equipment into a power point - I doubt it - more like I don't know how to read the legal wording correctly.

I will, however, follow up with Energy Safe Victoria in relation to my work circumstances. I have in the past spoken to the OCEI (which is now part of Energy Safe) on these matters but I'm interested to see if the revised legislation has any impact.

Chris

[Frank&Earnest]

Peter,

Thank you for your post and the relevant links. I've been having a read but I find the legal terminology and definitions somewhat confusing. ... more like I don't know how to read the legal wording correctly.

I will, however, follow up with Energy Safe Victoria in relation to my work circumstances. I have in the past spoken to the OCEI (which is now part of Energy Safe) on these matters but I'm interested to see if the revised legislation has any impact.

Chris
Good move. A professional knows when he is out of his depth :) . I bet you will find that it is the same as in SA.

[Sturdee]

You are only perpetuating a self serving myth about the electrical profession, hopefully in good faith. See my post in the "taboo" thread.

Definitely in good faith as in my working life I was an Accountant with an extensive grounding in legal affairs.

I saw your post in the Taboo thread and IMO you are putting a wrong interpretation on that reference as I believe it applies to someone employed as an apprentice working under a licensed person in homebuilding works. That is not the same as a homeowner/occupier doing wiring work for and under the supervision of an electrician.


Peter.

[Sturdee]

One extreme reading would be that we need a licensed person to "connect" our "appliances" to the "supply". So does this mean we cannot plug in any electrical equipment into a power point - I doubt it - more like I don't know how to read the legal wording correctly.



Chris, it does not mean that you can't plug in an appliance into a GPO, but that any work in repairing an appliance must be done by a licensed person and that the making of an appliance must be approved also.

So for instance changing a plug on an appliance is illegal in Victoria unless licensed and using or supplying a home made lampshade is alos illegal.


Peter.

[Sturdee]

Radio/Tv technicians work on mains powered electronic stuff,

So where do they fit into the regulations you have stated.



Bob,

Section 40 dealing with licensing of electrical workers is as follows:

(1) Energy Safe Victoria may, in accordance with the regulations, license, or renew the licence of, a natural person as an electrical worker in respect of a specified class of electrical work.

(2) A licence may be issued or renewed subject to any conditions that Energy Safe Victoria thinks fit, including a condition that it applies to only one class of electrical work.

So Radio/Tv technicians working on mains powered electronic stuff, would need a licence specifying their class of work that they do else it wouldn't be allowed to be connected to the electricity supplies.

Peter.

[chrisp]

Chris, it does not mean that you can't plug in an appliance into a GPO

Peter,

I understand what you mean. But have a read of the following extract taken from the Electricity Safety Act 1998
7. Functions of Energy Safe Victoria

The functions of Energy Safe Victoria under this Act are-


(c) to inspect and test electrical equipment, electrical installations and electrical work for compliance with the specified safety standards;

38. Electrical workers

A person must not carry out or offer to carry out or hold out that the person carries out or is willing to carry out any class of electrical work that, under the regulations, is a prescribed class of electrical work for the purposes of this Division unless the person is-


(c) licensed under this Division as an electrical connection worker in respect of electrical connection work of that class; or

From the definitions:

"electrical work" means electrical connection work, electrical equipment work, electrical inspection work or electrical installation work;

"electrical connection work" means connecting or disconnecting electrical equipment to or from a supply of electricity;
I find it vague and confusing.

Chris

[Sturdee]

Whilst the above proves that it is illegal in Victoria another aspect to consider is your house insurance.

My brother during his working life was a loss adjuster( note not a claims manager as they are now called :D ) for an major insurance company. He told me that his job was to adjust fire claims.

When they received a claim for fire damage he would investigate the fire scene, check the fire brigade report to see if the fire hot spots involved any electrical appliances. If so they would reject or reduce the claim depending on the circumstances if there was any possibility of any illegal work or the appliance was not kept in good working order.

He would also check house and contents values to see if they were underinsured and then the final claim, as already adjusted, would be paid out on a pro rata basis if underinsured.

His experience was that only 20 % of claims were paid out without any downward adjustments, usually when the claimant could prove that electrical repairs on old equipment was done by repair shops.

Peter.

[Grunt]

I think it is a shocking state of affairs.

[Sturdee]

[/I]
(c) licensed under this Division as an electrical connection worker in respect of electrical connection work of that class; or

From the definitions:

"electrical connection work" means connecting or disconnecting electrical equipment to or from a supply of electricity;

I find it vague and confusing.

Chris


Chris,

I think C referring to electrical connection worker refers to the licensing of someone to remove and reconnect hard wired appliances that are permanently connected to the electrical system, eg HWS, Airconditioners or in Ozwinner"s case woolpresses.


Peter.

[ozwinner]

"electrical connection work" means connecting or disconnecting electrical equipment to or from a supply of electricity;


Chris

Which means I cant unplug any appliance, or flick the switch?

Al :?

[Sturdee]

Which means I cant unplug any appliance, or flick the switch?

Al :?

No, see above, but woolpresses are a different matter.:D

Peter.

[Toolin Around]

Normally I don't participate in electrical type of threads anymore as it is illegal to do your own wiring and repairs in Australia, and I will not aid or abet someone to break the law.

However the following needs to be corrected.




In Victoria the ELECTRICITY SAFETY ACT 1998 - SECT 38 provides that a person must not carry out or offer to carry out or hold out that the person carries out or is willing to carry out any class of electrical work that, under the regulations, is a prescribed class of electrical work for the purposes of this Division unless the person is-

(d) licensed under this Division as an electrical equipment worker in respect of electrical equipment work of that class.

Electrical equipment is defined by the said act to be :

"electrical equipment" means any appliance, wire, fitting, cable, conduit or apparatus that generates, uses, conveys or controls (or that is intended to generate, use, convey or control) electricity;



Further Section 57 of the Act states:

Prescribed electrical equipment

(1) Energy Safe Victoria, by notice published in the Government Gazette, may declare that any class, description or type of electrical equipment is, from a date specified in the notice, prescribed electrical equipment for the purposes of this Act.

(2) A person must not supply or offer to supply electrical equipment prescribed under sub-section (1) unless the equipment-

(a) is approved by Energy Safe Victoria and is marked as prescribed .... (etc)


Regulations under this provision made By Energy Safe Victoria are detailed here (http://lodge.ocei.vic.gov.au/Search/downloads/PrescribingOrder.pdf) and your attention is drawn specifically to the " Appliance Connector".

From this it is clear that any electrical appliance using a cord and plug to connect to the Electricity supply is an electrical equipment which can only be repaired by a licensed person. No doubt other states are the same.

So those that thought they could repair their own appliances are wrong and it is illegal in this state. So if the appliance doesn't work take it to an authorised repairer.


Peter.


And of course you never speed and endanger anyone elses life when you do it... Never "forgot" to declare a bit of your income from the government... Electical is a funny thing - I've never seen so many people get so uptight about it - ya it's illegal but so is just about everything.

[ozwinner]

And of course you never speed and endanger anyone elses life when you do it... Never "forgot" to declare a bit of your income from the government... Electical in this country is a funny thing - I've never seen so many people get so uptight about it - ya it's illegal but so is just about everything here.

Hey....you cant post about things being illegal, its illegal.

Al :p

[Greg Q]

Yeah Toolin around, I think so too. I couldn't get over the angst associated with electricity when i moved here. In Canada we used to do anything we wanted to our own home wiring-the theory being that the consequences of screwing it up were an obvious deterrent to bodgy work.

There are plenty of books on the subject that provide enough knowledge to, with the proper mind set and tools, do a first class job of the basic things. I have wired houses and factories and industrial machines and boiler controls and rebuilt motors and phase converters and appliances. I don't feel like a criminal, but rather a productive and self reliant citizen for doing these things.

I wonder, is there a similar prohibition on doing your own brake job then driving down my street? Or flying your own aeroplane over my house? No? I guess I need to belong to a stronger guild.

The statute as quoted above does not define "connect", and thus is an example of a bad law in both concept and wording. As it stands it is too vague to be enforced, or at least so says my lawyer friend.

Cheers

Greg, (who can find no difference in the rate of electrocutions or building fires between Australia and Canada.)

[Ramps]

Why not dig into this one as well ... it's good fun

So far I've learnt that an extension cord passes electricity (at least it does when it's plugged in an turned on) so we can't repair it ...

BUT

An extension cord isn't a hard wired device so we can repair it ourselves ...

BUT

As it requires a "special" ticket to do so we can't repair it :no:

I'M SO CONFUSED :C :C

Are we allowed to wire up our outdoor 12V lights and irrigation controllers without the mighty "ticket" as there's no mention of voltage in the lead post on this thread??????? :? :? :?

[sundancewfs]

Interesting, does all this only mean mains powered devices? Electricity is in a hell of alot of things.... Don't change your watch battery, don't plug those speakers in, don't put that newly charged battery in your drill (it charged off the mains) don't replace a light bulb. Also the statement on the outside of electronic equipment usually reads something like "Warning no user servicable parts inside" but no legal warning as to the illegallity of opening it. Lets take a typical portable stereo..... 1)is it illegal to remove the screws and remove the cover?(no electricity involved here) 2)with the cover removed is it illegal to use a can of compressed air to blow out the acumulated dust and ants?(no electricity involved here either) 3) Can I repair or replace components on the output side if the stepdown transformer? (I know... not on all appliances...but most) this ranges from 3-12volts usually. Is it a voltage issue or is it a vague "Joe" type "Now don't you worry your pretty little head about that!" issue. If it is voltage at what voltage is the cutoff????

[Frank&Earnest]

Definitely in good faith as in my working life I was an Accountant with an extensive grounding in legal affairs.

That makes two of us- which means one of us is making a terrible fool of himself - bring it on! :)



I saw your post in the Taboo thread and IMO you are putting a wrong interpretation on that reference as I believe it applies to someone employed as an apprentice working under a licensed person in homebuilding works. That is not the same as a homeowner/occupier doing wiring work for and under the supervision of an electrician.


Peter


Thank you. If this is your understanding of the law, I have no worries at all:U .

[Frank&Earnest]

Which means I cant unplug any appliance, or flick the switch?

Al :?

No, it simply means that you can not wire an appliance directly to the "fixed" wiring, without a plug and socket.

[m2c1Iw]

Wow, 21 posts already the wires are running too hot better call an electrician:D

BTW who will support my push for legislating against DIY motor vehicle repairs:wink:

[Frank&Earnest]

Peter,



I understand what you mean. But have a read of the following extract taken from the Electricity Safety Act 1998
.............
I find it vague and confusing.

Chris

That simply means that you can not work as an electrician if you are not licensed, and that the Board will check that you indeed are if you do. It does not mean that John Doe can not do electrical work for himself.

[Frank&Earnest]

So for instance ... using a home made lampshade is alos illegal.


Peter.

Doubt it. Reference please? Even if correct, however, this is a provision about the owner's obligation to maintain safe premises, not dissimilar to the the prohibition to light a fire in the backyard. Different issue.

[Frank&Earnest]

BTW who will support my push for legislating against DIY motor vehicle repairs:wink:

Ok, for what I care... I don't know the boot from the bonnet!:D

[Sturdee]

So as usual a group of members who don't agree with our laws, especially immigrants who come from countries where apparently it is legal to do your wiring, decided to stir again.:((

So like SilentC said elsewhere "Are any of my points hitting home, or am I just wasting my breath?"

As I said in my opening post normally I don't participate in electrical type of threads anymore as I will not debate the relative merits of our existing laws, I just wanted to correct an incorrect view held by some members.

So I will not participate anymore in this discussion, especially since Toolin Around feels it appropriate to question my integrity by suggesting that I endanger life whilst driving or cheat on my taxes.:(( :(( :((


Peter.

[Frank&Earnest]

I'M SO CONFUSED :C :C

Are we allowed to wire up our outdoor 12V lights and irrigation controllers without the mighty "ticket" as there's no mention of voltage in the lead post on this thread??????? :? :? :?

Yep. You are seeing the point. The reason the voltage is not mentioned is because you can indeed do electrical work yourself provided you do not endanger yourself and others. Using 12V it is extremely unlikely (not impossible - you can still produce a spark) that you would. An insurance company bent on ****ing you could still try to allege contributing negligence if there is a fire, for example.

[chrisp]

Peter,

If it is any consolation, I can see where you are coming from (although I think that silentC is just a stirrer:D).

I am quite intrigued (connived?) by the Electricity Safety Act and its possible interpretation. Just as you can interpret it to mean no electrical work is permitted unless licensed, I can (ridiculously) interpret it to read one one can plug in any appliance unless licensed. My understanding is that it applies to fixed wiring.

I have emailed the OCEI for clarification as it seems very vague. I'll let you know what the OCEI says when I hear back.

I appreciate the time and effort you (and others) have taken to respond in the forum with your views.

Chris

[Greg Q]

So as usual a group of members who don't agree with our laws, especially immigrants who come from countries where apparently it is legal to do your wiring, decided to stir again.:((

So like SilentC said elsewhere "Are any of my points hitting home, or am I just wasting my breath?"

Peter.

Well Peter, you started it. Pretty hard to get around those pesky multi-cultural immigrants with their quaint folk customs, ain't it?

[boatchippy]

Wow, 21 posts already the wires are running too hot better call an electrician:D

BTW who will support my push for legislating against DIY motor vehicle repairs:wink:


Why stop there?!?

I'll support your push for making DIY motor vehicle repairs illegal.

You can support my push for making DIY boatbuilding and repairs illegal.

Anything to do with building trades now, you need a license. I make staircases, kitchens, benches and doors in my workshop, I can't install them, I've gotta have a licensed tradie to do the installation.

If we're not careful we'll soon need a license to take a crap.:rolleyes: :D

[sundancewfs]

So as usual a group of members who don't agree with our laws, especially immigrants who come from countries where apparently it is legal to do your wiring, decided to stir again.:((

I would just like to point out, in case anyone is worried that I maybe one of those "immigrants" ... given I have an Illinois location and all.... I am a third generation Australian originally from Western Australia. I have been here in the USA for 3 years and do intended to live in Australia. (I'm over here because of my wife's work, she is a Australian scientist posted over here) I find it intriguing to compare standards and accepted practises from around the world. You should have seen some of the electrical work I saw in Mexico!! Sheesh!!!!

[NCArcher]

The reason the voltage is not mentioned is because you can indeed do electrical work yourself provided you do not endanger yourself and others.

:ranton:

That is an extremely irresponsible statement. It is illegal to do your own prescribed electrical work. If you read the rest of the act you will find that ELV (Extra Low Voltage) i.e. 12V is not prescribed electrical work so it can be done by anyone. Work on appliances is prescribed so it can only be carried out by those holding the appropriate licence (unrestricted or appliance repairer)

I should say that this is purely my understanding of the law and i am in no way an expert. The laws vary from state to state but not by a large degree.
I agree, the act and the wiring regulations are very confusing but individual interpretaions should not be stated as fact. (I can feel another thread topic coming on)

For the record i hold an unrestricted wiring licence in Vic and a Qualified Supervisors certificate in NSW.

:rantoff:

[Toolin Around]

So as usual a group of members who don't agree with our laws, especially immigrants who come from countries where apparently it is legal to do your wiring, decided to stir again.:((

So like SilentC said elsewhere "Are any of my points hitting home, or am I just wasting my breath?"

As I said in my opening post normally I don't participate in electrical type of threads anymore as I will not debate the relative merits of our existing laws, I just wanted to correct an incorrect view held by some members.

So I will not participate anymore in this discussion, especially since Toolin Around feels it appropriate to question my integrity by suggesting that I endanger life whilst driving or cheat on my taxes.:(( :(( :((


Peter.

Sorry if you feel that I was questioning your integrity. Everyone speeds and it endangers lives - there is no debating this. But we do it anyways because we can and it's done so much no one cares. Everyone also conveniently forgets to put all there income on their tax return. It's another area where everyone does it - but again it's an accepted form of illegal activity. But for some reason the law alwasy comes up as to why you shouldn't do anything that's remotely electrical related...

It's obvious the electic shocks kills far far less than driving over the speed limit does but for some reason people get all bent out of shape with doing even the minorist repair to a appliance... saying don't you dare it illegal. And I don't get why.

[chrisp]

It's obvious the electic shocks kills far far less than driving over the speed limit does but for some reason people get all bent out of shape with doing even the minorist repair to a appliance...

I'm pleased someone has actually read the statistics I wrote in the "other thread". I'm pleased it wasn't a complete waste of time!

I'm not sure why this thread has been started as a separate thread when it is a response to the "other" thread?

[silentC]

It all comes down to giving advice. Yes we all speed, yes we all understate our incomes, yes we all do our own wiring when nobody is looking. All three are illegal, all three cop penalties if you are caught. The only difference is that no-one on here is giving people practical advice that is encouraging people to lie about their income or break the speed limit.

I don't get why people don't get that...

[craigb]

I bought a valve guitar amp that I'm going to modify.

(Don't tell anybody o.k.) :wink:

[sundancewfs]

Cool craigb
I might be able to not :wink: give you some help and advise on that. I build my own valve amps.:U

[craigb]

Cool craigb
I might be able to not :wink: give you some help and advise on that. I build my own valve amps.:U

Thanks, I'll keep your intention not to give me any advice in mind. :wink: :D

[silentC]

Valves! Pfft, they went out with The Mavis Bramston Show, didn't they?

[craigb]

Actually, it's funny waiting for the amp to warm up. Reminds me of the olden days when you'd turn the telly on and wait for the picture and sound.

It's all instant gratification in this digital age isn't it?

:D

[silentC]

Has it got a spring reverb in it? They make a lovely sound if you try to move the amp while it's turned on. Fender Chorus :)

[Ramps]

Is there a difference between advice and information.

I know I always want to see what the tradie is up to. I'm interested OK. I might learn something that I can apply to something that I am allowed to do.

A technique, a tool, a safety measure that I might not have thought of.

I Also like to be across the why's and wherefores so I can talk intelligently to a tradie so I give them some sort of indication of what needs doing or what exactly needs fixing.

Surely all this information can contribute to a better informed purchaser and a more intelligent world ... that's why I'm on the forums ... if I can't find the info here that I want I'll just keep looking til I find it.

adios amigos

I have collected some great information from these two threads but I now think it's burnt itself out and I feel there will be arguments and interpretations of the law til the cows come home and people will still be after some intelligent information with regard to 240v and will look here or elsewhere.

[sundancewfs]

Here is some of the fun you can have with tubes/valves... seeing as it is a wood working forum.... Oh and I also did all the covering and the electronics as well. It is a 5F6A 1959 Fender Bassman clone (not a kit either I purchased all the individual components and made the turrent board and all. The finised amp is pictured with my Scot Wise guitar ( a luthier from Margaret River WA)

[craigb]

Has it got a spring reverb in it? They make a lovely sound if you try to move the amp while it's turned on. Fender Chorus :)

Nah, it's just a little 5 watter.
Cool little amp though and the web is full of instructions on how to modify it. :D

I don't think anybody has made a spring reverb mod for it but then again it wouldn't surprise me if somebody had. :wink:

[craigb]

Here is some of the fun you can have with tubes/valves... seeing as it is a wood working forum.... Oh and I also did all the covering and the electronics as well. It is a 5F6A 1959 Fender Bassman clone (not a kit either I purchased all the individual components and made the turrent board and all. The finised amp is pictured with my Scot Wise guitar ( a luthier from Margaret River WA)

Nice job mate!

[bpj1968]

Unfortunately legislation is not the easiest thing to interpret. Legislation usually has an ACT, which sets out the broad requirments. ACTS have subordinate legislation called, REGULATIONS, which spell out the various componenets. Some ACTS can have several REGULATIONS, as is the case with electircity. To compound it even more some REGULATIONS are intorduced only to amend existing ACTS and/or REGULATIONS.

These are then broken into DIVISIONS and PARTS , like chapters in books. Some sections/regulations only relate to certian DIVISIONS/PARTS and have no effect on other PARTS.

When reading regulations you need to read the entire section as a part of the PART.

Depending on when it was written some legislation is even harder. There was a major re-write around 1958 when they didn't use punctation and flowery legal words no one understands, "to wit" as an example (means namely) Although now written in a more simple English, it is by no means easy for the uneducated in legal writting.

Unforetunatley Sturdee has misinterpreted some of this in the first post




In Victoria the ELECTRICITY SAFETY ACT 1998 - SECT 38 provides that a person must not carry out or offer to carry out or hold out that the person carries out or is willing to carry out any class of electrical work that, under the regulations, is a prescribed class of electrical work for the purposes of this Division unless the person is- (d) licensed .......


Prescribed class of elecrical work is in the Electricity Safety (Installations) Regulations 1999 (http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubLawToday.nsf/b12e276826f7c27fca256de50022686b/75677A53C16CD4B7CA256EAD002F75E2/$FILE/99-49sr003.pdf)
regulation 301 in particuolar.
This relates to

"electrical installation" means electrical equipment that is fixed or to be fixed in, on, under or over any land;
"electrical installation work" means installation, alteration, repair or maintenance of an electrical installation;


In other words Fixed




"electrical equipment" means any appliance, wire, fitting, cable, conduit or apparatus that generates, uses, conveys or controls (or that is intended to generate, use, convey or control) electricity;

Further Section 57 of the Act states:

Prescribed electrical equipment

(1) Energy Safe Victoria, by notice published in the Government Gazette, may declare that any class, description or type of electrical equipment is, from a date specified in the notice, prescribed electrical equipment for the purposes of this Act.

(2) A person must not supply or offer to supply electrical equipment prescribed under sub-section (1) unless the equipment-

(a) is approved by Energy Safe Victoria and is marked as prescribed .... (etc)

Regulations under this provision made By Energy Safe Victoria are detailed here (http://lodge.ocei.vic.gov.au/Search/downloads/PrescribingOrder.pdf) ........

Peter.

Regulation 57 only applies to products offered for sale, i.e. new.
Every electical appliance offered for sale has to meet certain saftey standrds, eg insulation overheating etc. Much the same way as the ADR's dictate requirements for new cars.

[Toolin Around]

It all comes down to giving advice. Yes we all speed, yes we all understate our incomes, yes we all do our own wiring when nobody is looking. All three are illegal, all three cop penalties if you are caught. The only difference is that no-one on here is giving people practical advice that is encouraging people to lie about their income or break the speed limit.

I don't get why people don't get that...

RIght but you can find plenty of practical advise on how to beat speeding tickets, "hide" money... Pretty well the same thing as saying it maybe illegal but it's all right.

[chrisp]

In other words Fixed

This is also my understanding from the perspective of one who is working in the field (but not a licensed electrician).

Previous contact with the Victorian OCEI (Office of the Chief Electrical Inspector) many years ago, the OCEI effectively told me something like:
Up to the power point - we care, beyond the power point - do what you like.
This was in relation to doing your own (non-fixed wired) appliance work. It maybe different if you are doing it for someone else.

Chris

[Pulse]

The only difference is that no-one on here is giving people practical advice that is encouraging people...


Hey silent, isn't that why they stopped sex education in schools, telling the kids how to do it safely just encouraged them...

:)
Pulse

[silentC]

Did they? I wouldn't know. They only introduced it the year before I left (Miss Carter was a popular favourite amongst us kids) and neither of my kids is old enough to do it yet.

Fortunately people do take the laws governing who you can do it with and under what circumstances a bit more seriously than some other laws. And you get to go to jail if you break them.

[dsquire]

Yeah Toolin around, I think so too. I couldn't get over the angst associated with electricity when i moved here. In Canada we used to do anything we wanted to our own home wiring-the theory being that the consequences of screwing it up were an obvious deterrent to bodgy work.

There are plenty of books on the subject that provide enough knowledge to, with the proper mind set and tools, do a first class job of the basic things. I have wired houses and factories and industrial machines and boiler controls and rebuilt motors and phase converters and appliances. I don't feel like a criminal, but rather a productive and self reliant citizen for doing these things.

I wonder, is there a similar prohibition on doing your own brake job then driving down my street? Or flying your own aeroplane over my house? No? I guess I need to belong to a stronger guild.

The statute as quoted above does not define "connect", and thus is an example of a bad law in both concept and wording. As it stands it is too vague to be enforced, or at least so says my lawyer friend.

Cheers

Greg, (who can find no difference in the rate of electrocutions or building fires between Australia and Canada.)

I realize that the laws are probably much different in Australia and Canada but one law that should be universal is common sense which is what I try to use.

I'm not a licensed electrician, mechanic, plumber, or carpenter. I am a jack of all trades, master of none. Ever since I have owned a car I have said that if I had to pay someone else to fix it I could not afford to drive so I fixed it myself. Rebuilt motors, transmissions, brakes etc. Have even bought 2 identical cars, 1 front end wrecked and the other with rear end wrecked. Stripped them down as necessary and cut them in half then welded the 2 good parts together, painted the whole veichle same colour and put the striped parts back on and had a car that was less than a year old at about 1/3rd the price of buying one. Most people had to be shown where I joined them before they would believe it.

When it comes to plumbing or electrical I still do most of my own repairs or installations. Depending on what it is, it may have to be inspected but that has never been a problem. If an electrical switch, a receptecle, new plug on cord, new ceiling fan etc. needs replacing or installing I am the one that is going to do it. If I had to call a plumber or electrician every time I need a new switch or the plumbing needs fixing I'd be in the poor house in short order.

I have been blessed to have good mechanical ability/knowledge. It is not something that everyone has. If you don't feel comfortable doing something, then don't do it. I have a brother in law that is a bank manager. He knows money and how to invest but I doubt that he knows the difference between a switch and a receptecle. He would never attempt any of the above. He calls me or an electrician.

Don

[lesmeyer]

As it is, there is not enough sparkys to do the work (especially in WA where we have a great shortage of tradies of all sorts). I cannot wait 2 months to get a sparky to fit a new light.
It is only 2 wires after all. (well also the erfy, but no polarity required for lights - I think):U
Les

[himzol]

As it is, there is not enough sparkys to do the work (especially in WA where we have a great shortage of tradies of all sorts). I cannot wait 2 months to get a sparky to fit a new light.
It is only 2 wires after all. (well also the erfy, but no polarity required for lights - I think):U
Les

Unless you find yourself on the wrong side of the switch, thinking it's off.

[Greg Q]

As it is, there is not enough sparkys to do the work (especially in WA where we have a great shortage of tradies of all sorts). I cannot wait 2 months to get a sparky to fit a new light.
It is only 2 wires after all. (well also the erfy, but no polarity required for lights - I think):U
Les

I know (or think) that Les is joking...but it raises the point that if you aren't going to learn how to do it at least as well as a real sparky, don't do it. You have a responsibility to yourself and the next guy to do it correctly, and not make mistakes like swapping active and neutral leads.

[lesmeyer]

Yes, it is tongue in cheek the comments. Seriously, some electrical work I do myself. I am a trained telecomms technician and we were taught electricity as well. When I can do the job just as well or even better than a sparky, I will do it myself. I do get a very good sparky in for jobs that need new circuits etc. I know how to handle electricity and also know what all the wires are for (including the various specs).
I also do wish to state that if one is in any way uncertain about what to do in this regard, get a sparky to do the job.
As far as all the legalities are concerned, I do not wish to stir the hornets nest. The laws that tell me what I can and cannot do is insulting to me. It is better that I ignore them and not discuss them.
Regards
Les

[China]

I can't comment on the legilslation, but when runing my sharpening shop I recieved many requests to repair animal clippers ( yes electric ones), I contacted the office of the technical regulater in SA. I was informed in writing that no licence of any sort is required to work on "non permananlty wired" electrical appliances in SA

[Bodgy]

The good old Australian Nanny State.

I beleive in the US anyone can do the wiring you just need a sparkie to connect up.

Probably like the legal profession (QC's), doctors (College membership) the sparkie profession first collective imperative is to ensure enough work for their members.

I say 'thank God for earth leakage detectors'

[silentC]

The previous arguments about legislation and control notwithstanding, there are a number of reasons why we should have control over who does electrical work, and only the least important of those is that sparkies should be garaunteed jobs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: go down to Bunnings on a Saturday or Sunday and take a look around you at the people shopping there. Do you really want these people installing powerpoints in your future house, or your kid's next rental?

[Bodgy]

The previous arguments about legislation and control notwithstanding, there are a number of reasons why we should have control over who does electrical work, and only the least important of those is that sparkies should be garaunteed jobs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: go down to Bunnings on a Saturday or Sunday and take a look around you at the people shopping there. Do you really want these people installing powerpoints in your future house, or your kid's next rental?

No I don't, Thats a great debating point Silent, just the idea send shivers down one's spine, however........

In a less regulated society I would commision a survey of the wiring before I bought the house, as I would know that no regulatory body had oversight.

I think its all about personal responsibility versus State regulation.

I wonder if there are more fires/electrical accidents in the US than here?

[silentC]

Yeah we've been down that path. Nothing conclusive but we certainly don't seem to be any safer than the US or the UK.

The other point that people keep making is that we are happy to tell people how to use tablesaws, or modify their chainsaws, or rip walls out of their houses.

Actually, I think that being 'happy' about it is not quite right. I often shake my head when I read some of the things people suggest or propose. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of faith in my fellow man, which just makes it all the more impressive when I see some of the really clever things some people can do :)

[speedy]

Just to put a bit of scary reality in here, a few years ago up here in a cairns caravan park 2 people were electrocuted and one, a 17 year old boy died. They touched the pipe holding a light, the type of lights you see in these places, 50mm gal water pipe with a spherical light on top. During the police investigation it was found that the previous owner of the van park had, 10 years earlier, installed the lights himself and he wasn't a licenced electrician. The police tracked him down and charged him with manslaughter.
The point here is, if you wire something in your house or garden and later, maybe after you sell the house, someone is injured and killed you may find yourself in gaol.:oo: :oo:

[Frank&Earnest]

Back again to own up to a mistake I made.

It is not as clear cut as I made it up to be. In urban areas in SA it is indeed necessary to have a "worker registration" (i.e. to be qualified) to do fixed wiring work. Right or wrong, only cockies are exempted.

The misunderstanding was due to the fact that a "licence" is only required to charge for work, on that count I was correct.

As regards the topic of this thread I was also correct (sorry if somebody already said this, I have not read the posts since my last ETA: yep, China said it.): Regulation 4 of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Electricians Act makes it clear that on your side of the plug it is your business.

Other States should be the same, but I can't tell.

[silentC]

it is indeed necessary to have a "worker registration" (i.e. to be qualified) to do fixed wiring work
Does the work done under one of these "worker registrations" need to be tested by a qualified person?

[TEEJAY]

Does the work done under one of these "worker registrations" need to be tested by a qualified person?


Well when I did mine it was - BUT - I recon that's a trick question SilentC :)

[Frank&Earnest]

Does the work done under one of these "worker registrations" need to be tested by a qualified person?

The registered worker IS a qualified person, ie an electrician.

[silentC]

See, in NSW I could do the wiring myself under the direct supervision of a sparky who is a licensed supervisor. That would mean he had to be on site telling me what to do. When it was finished, he would then have to test it himself and fill in paperwork to be submitted proving that the tests were done. This would apply to any work, whether it was a new house, a renovation, or just putting a new point in the shed.

SA might be behind the times with this, they don't seem to have an equivalent of the Electricity (Consumer Safety) Act, so it's probably a grey area. QLD could be the same. The question is, how much longer will it remain that way?

[silentC]

The registered worker IS a qualified person, ie an electrician.
So you have to be an electrician to become a registered worker?

[Frank&Earnest]

Now we are moving the goalposts... and restarting possible equivocation about "licensed supervisor". SA does indeed have an Electricity Act, I mentioned before section 60 setting the obligation to ensure safety, which assurance can be obtained by getting a Certificate of Compliance.

Here, there or anywhere, playing with electrical equipment that is not connected to the mains is not "wiring". Again, I have not perused the legislation, but this is common sense. (The ghost of Voltaire just jabbed me... never mind). If you dig the ditches, lay the cables, etc. it is fine: indeed, to overcome a timing problem when the electrician was too busy to come before the carpenter put in the kitchen cabinets, he was quite happy to give me the appropriate cable to lay and then he came and connected the appliances. At the end, he is the one certifying that all my mistakes, if any, have been corrected.

[Frank&Earnest]

So you have to be an electrician to become a registered worker?

yes, that is the legal term. Have not read the details, for example an apprentice is registered but must be supervised, etc.