A bit of reading for the sharp of mind

[derekcohen]

Here are two links to separate threads I have been involved with over the last couple of days. It is finished now, but I thought it might interest some of you. Have a drink at hand.

Read this first ... (I started this thread)

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3069912&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=

and then read... (I later contributed to this thread)

http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1040&sid=c9a45610f8b94d3868a89507c3bf2b28

The latter is the entire thread. My section comes in on the second page but there is pertinent information from about half way through the first page.

Your opinions are always wanted.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bitingmidge]

I think I need a drink AFTER reading too!

Of course I'm greatly sympathetic Derek, although mildly dissatisfied with your politeness through the whole charade.:p I admire your self control!

In the end, I suspect the blood-nose would have been a better outcome, the lack of responsiblity shown by the seller reminds me of a clip I saw recently of a person on trial for selling "photographs of iPods" on eBay. The perpetrator continued to plead innocence despite the evidence, and it is clear that some people have a rather different standard of ethics/morals to the one that I would like to think I display.

There's some interesting stuff in there apart from the bunfight.

Did you ever receive a definitive response from Shaptons? Would you mind posting an update here for the benefit of those (me :D ) who don't haunt other forums (fora?)?

I was particularly surprised to hear that the stones are meant to be kept dry, and wonder what the difference is in the binding medium, as I understand that Kings and others are best kept wet?


Cheers, and thanks for the insight!

P
:D :D :D

[RufflyRustic]

Shheeeeesssshh!!!!

What Midge said!!!!

cheers
Wendy

[bfx]

Derek,

I'm with you: this guy has abused the Ebay system. Even if he can wiggle out of his description that it "stays flat for a long time" he can't deny that he has described the stone in the Japanese Tools Forum as a problem and this should have been declared in the Ebay description.

"Sold as is" is all very well but if he cares about his reputation he should accurately describe the "..as is" part. His offer for you to return the item so he can relist it (ie sting someone else) clearly indicates reputation is not as important to him as it is to some of us.

I love the comment in his support that posting these sort of issues is not in keeping with the gentlemenly club nature of the Japanese Tools Forum. Who said (Oscar, Groucho, Hawkeye) that they don't want to be a member of any club that would accept them as a member?

I, for one, am going to be a bit more cautious when I deal with Ebay in the future.

Bill

[tameriska]

Fair bit of reading there Derek.
As bitingmidge put it, you were very polite throughout the discussion, and I think that was to your advantage.
I admire your guts for going to bat with the seller on his 'own turf' to uphold a principal.

Best of luck with your stone, I hope that it stabilizes enough for a few years of enjoyable use after all this.

[silentC]

Here's what I think: He knows that he has been busted but he's never going to admit it on a public forum.

[Groggy]

Derek, I guess this turned out exactly as you thought it would. Sometimes it is best to tackle dishonesty where it lives. He seems to have his little nook of friends who don't want to think badly of him, though I am sure they won't be buying from him without some care in the future.

Considering the forums this is now spread across, I suspect he will need a new alias on eBay, certainly informed buyers will be alarmed at his attitude.

My gut feel for the stone is that he may have done something silly with it, then ground it down to remove the evidence.

[rat52]

Derek,
I don't normally buy into or comment on forums when it becomes personal.
You were right to take it as far as you did and although it is bound to leave a bitter taste for a while take heart that most agree with your actions.

[Bodgy]

Derek

Remind me never to offend you in any way.

[johnc]

I was surprised how he seemed incapable of using reason when it was obvious his assertions had little weight. If he did have a faulty stone fair enough, but to then flog it off with a pack of lies really puts him in a poor light. Seemed to me he had done something silly in his care and use of the stone.

[rrich]

I may have said this before.

In my home we can spell fraud with four letters, "eBay".

Every time that I look at things on eBay, I become most skeptical. I have not been able to part with the funds for an eBay purchase. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong offerings, maybe, I just don't know or trust.

[TEEJAY]

Very tenacious Derek.

Apart from the hysteria of some - it was interesting to see the vastly different opinions of so called experts on these stones claiming a nuclear reactor would need to be used to deviate these stones as they are of a ceramic molecular structure

versus

stabilising the stones is part of the manufacturing process and this was something faulty to these stones

and

these stones move naturally and should be flattened before use - so do it :D

Along with my stones have never moved and will never move

to

my stones flap in the wind and I expect that and so should you - you twit. :p


And coated with a sprinkling of we all love one another here - how dare you show one of us as being not worthy of this - so it's all your fault :D


Should have been titled "Days of our water stone lives" :p

[bitingmidge]

Oh what the heck, Derek, I have no idea who Judge Judy is, but why not give her a call, she seems to have this sort of thing sorted and I don't think your Mr Smith is any more honest than this misunderstood trader:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDK6ctRjqw

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[Groggy]

Oh what the heck, Derek, I have no idea who Judge Judy is, but why not give her a call, she seems to have this sort of thing sorted and I don't think your Mr Smith is any more honest than this misunderstood trader:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDK6ctRjqwDarn, you've made me change my mind about Judge Judy :2tsup:

[Greg Q]

Sorry to read of your problems with this jerk, Derek. Makes me wonder if he did leave the stones wet in a Maine winter...which is enough to warp anything. I'm glad that you mentioned it publicly...that's what he deserves.

Greg

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Would someone please remind me to not post my ads for "Smiling Mongoose brand waterstones" where Derek will see 'em? :innocent:

[derekcohen]

I learned that the danger signs are a Seller who ..

1. offers goods "as is" and will not consider returns (usually in the small print).

2. will only give Feedback after receiving it from the buyer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[jmk89]

I learned that the danger signs are a Seller who ..

1. offers goods "as is" and will not consider returns (usually in the small print).

2. will only give Feedback after receiving it from the buyer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

I have read this thread (and the others that you started us off with) with increasing despair.

I agree that 'as is' is a warning sign. But it is not an unreasonable position for a seller of used goods to take. My problem is not with your seller doing that, but with him out and out lying about the condition of the stones when you put the question to him directly. You can't hide behind 'as is' when you have said that they are in perfect condition!!!!

The only bad experiences I have had on eBay are with the blokes who don't give feedback asa seller until you do as a buyer. I now make it clear that my feedback will only be given when seller has put on feedback and the goods have arrived.

We live and learn

Cheers

Jeremy

[bitingmidge]

I'm sorry but "as is" is fine if it's accurately described. To his "gentlemanly mates on the Japan tools forum, the description was:


It is not usable because it has bowed about 1mm from one end to the other. This is from drying out business face down in the factory case as directed per instructions of use. It happens every time I put it away after use and has gotten progressively worse the thinner it has gotten.

On Ebay, that bit was left out of the ad. Had that been the description in the ebay ad, no-one could have taken issue.

Now I'm off to watch one of three football matches that I watch each year! :wink:

Cheers,

P

[felixe]

Good on you Derek,

What a weasle, I admire your "principals" for continuing to take the issue to him.
He got what he deserved for fraudulent trading on ebay.


Felixe.

[TEEJAY]

And if he had only just written this little line

"that it needed flattening every time you looked at it"

then there would have been no problem - I think that was about the final comment :p

Goodnight all - gee \i wonder who wond the footy :D :D :D

[Poppa]

Derek, you are in the right here and he is in the wrong, very clearly. Unfortunately in my experience, pointing out the dishonesty of an unprincipled person never results in them admitting fault - but that is not a reason not to point it out! I admire you for sticking to your guns and being so polite about it, but I counsel you to leave karma to deal with this lowlife and forget about the unfortunate transaction.

A point in favour of eBay - I've bought and sold stuff on there for a number of years now. I'm not a big buyer or seller by any means, but I've never had such a clearly bad experience. I've had some where I might have described the item a little differently than the seller, but not enough to complain about. That is, until my most recent purchase, where I bought an item that was described as being in perfect unrestored condition. When it arrived, I found that it had been restored and even repaired (poorly). Upon complaining to the seller, I was offered a complete refund of the item price and the cost of shipping both ways - which in my opinion was the honourable, honest thing to do. When I leave feedback for this seller I will commend their integrity and recommend them highly, because of this return policy - yes they will be out of pocket on this one transaction, but I would happily purchase items from the same seller again without hesitation. I guess I've just been lucky so far.

I wish you more luck in future Derek.