School Bullies

[silentC]

As I have just discovered, a very worrying and frustrating time in a parent's life is when one of your kids comes home from school and tells you that they are being picked on. Yes, our 7 year old daughter has told us that an 8 year old boy, by the name of Reece, who is the biggest kid in her class (she's in a mixed class with year 1 & 2 kids), has been calling her names and picking on her in the playground. It got to the point last week where she did not want to go to school. We asked her what was wrong and she eventually told us about it.

So my first reaction is to find out who the kid is and confront his parents. I mean what sort of cowardly little #### are they raising that he gets his kicks out of picking on a little girl? Then I'd like a few moments alone in a locked room with him. I think I know who he is. I used to help out with Auskick last year and I'm pretty sure he is the same fat little ##### that I took an instant disliking to. He never did what he was told and used to bully the other kids around, especially the little ones.

Bullies are all cowards and if you confront them, they turn to water. But this guy is at least twice the size of my daughter. So, we've made an appointment to go up to the school and discuss it with her teacher. I will be suggesting that they get his parents in and have a little talk about it. I'd love to be there too. Kids usually get their behaviour from their parents one way or another. If I ever found out my son was doing something like this to a little girl, I would kick his backside so hard he wouldn't sit down for a week and then I would tell him that there is a difference between respect and fear and if he thinks that making other kids fear him is getting him any respect I will give him something to fear.

I have you in my sights now, Reece, you fat little ####.

[Schtoo]

Hmm...

Yeah, whatever you have to do, you do.



But that's not why I am here.

I have a 'nephew' whose name is Reece, and it's possible this might be him.

If you manage to find out what his mum and dad are called, PM me ASAP. I might be able to give you something to chew on as rational talking wont do squat. :(

[RufflyRustic]

Having been bullied as a child at school, high school and into university, I personally know that my lack of self-confidence was most likely the main problem i.e. easy to pick on, won't answer back.

A big life change happened and now people who know me don't dare pick on me as they know I won't take it any more - (YAY!!!!)

SilentC - is there any chance of doing some roleplays or confidence building stuff or sport that may help with your's daughter's self-confidence?

This is not a wholistic answer by any shape or form.

Good luck sorting it out.

cheers
Wendy

[silentC]

The thing is, last year she was the most confident kid in the class. Her report basically said we have nothing to worry about, she is confident, happy, entusiastic etc etc and talks with her teacher confirmed this. She loved school and she cried on the first morning of school holidays when Mum told her she wasn't going to school.

This year, her report says she lacks confidence, all her scores are down, and now she says she hates school. What has changed? We asked her what was wrong and she comes out with this story. We told her this morning that we were going to talk to her teacher about it and she freaked out. Then she said that she made it up, he wasn't picking on her and she would just stay away from him.

There are two conclusions I can draw from that. I know which one I'm going with.

I was never the type to fight back either. My old man used to tell me about a bully he ran into at school. He used to pick on him and his mate, so the two of them went and learned some judo throws over the holidays. First day back, the guy comes up to pick on them, dad grabs him by the arm, throws him over his shoulder and that was the end of that.

I prefered to just stay away from the deadsh#ts at school. There were plenty of them too. We had one guy who used to get on the school bus every morning and he would walk up the aisle, making little remarks to kids he singled out for attention, messing up their hair, blowing kisses, a real wanker. I think he's in gaol now. Hi Brett :D

[Schtoo]

My involvement with bullies usually stopped when I left permanent marks on their person.

When will they learn not to pick on the gentle fat kid who was taught how to box from 4 years old?

When their nose/teeth don't work right no more... ;)


(I think it's the concept that there is always someone out there who can, and will, give them a hiding if they ask for it that brings them into line. All the more effective if it comes from a highly unlikely source. Doesn't always work though...)

[Wongo]

There is a place in hell for bullies. They are all bastards and I hate them all. They are all fat and ugly. They are all losers.:mad: X 1000

I remember the fear to step out of the school because this fat bastard was waiting for me. I didn’t want to go to school, I didn’t want to see them anymore.

I thought I was a cool kid, I played my basketball, I have never had a fight with anyone but I still got picked on a couple of times.

I feel sorry for your girl mate. I fully understand how she feels at the moment. It is bad. Talk to the school, talk to his parents and more importantly talk to the bastard and let him know someone bigger than him is protecting your little girl.

[Lignum]

The best way to stop a school bullie is public humiliation

[goat]

hi silent, i know the emotions that you are feeling i been through it my self with my boy last year it got to a stage my boy (tyson)would be physically ill on the way to school he was that worried so i enrolled him and the other 2 kids and the missus in ty kwon do (spelling) not for him to fight back but to give him the confidence to do so IF nessacery (sp) not only did tyson,s worries stop his school grades also shot up and another plus is the missus hasn't felt so good for years;)

[jmk89]

SilentC

I was bullied at school too and I fear that it will happen to my kids too when they are older (so far so good at Kindy).

The one thing I remember was how good it was to know that my Mum and Dad were on my side and listened to what I said I wanted (even if I was wrong and didn't want them to do anything for fear of making the reprisals from the bully worse). I had to learn to deal with the bullies for myself and having a mother or father or teacher do it for me wouldn't help.

That's why judo and boxing worked for Schtoo and you - you both took control yourself. Wendy seems to have done the same but differently and for her it took longer and wasn't so direct - she had to believe in herself to be able to say that she wasn't going to put up with it.

It's going to be tough though. But unless your daughter knows that she can deal with it herself, she won't ever be free of the fear of being bullied. I'm afraid that your role (especially if Reece is Schtoo's nephew and has parents that won't see that this is a problem) is to let her know that you are always there and always on her side, always ready to listen to her and advise and make suggestions but always respectful and supportive of her decisions about her life. If she has that strong family base to work from, she will find a way to deal with the issue.

It still makes you (and me) want to punch the kid's father's eyes out and boot the kid from here to Timbuctoo. That would make you feel better, but may not help your girl.

Jeremy

[scooter]

Not much to add here but I can imagine how you feel silent. :(

Just persist with the school to have it followed up, most schools should have bullying policies implemented, but still need a persistant parent to ensure it's followed through rather than taking the soft option of placating the parents & hoping it goes away.

I was bullied in the secondary years and it is pretty traumatic to face every day, as a kid the effect on you is significant.


Regards & cheers...............Sean

[Wongo]

When I was about 7, I played with boy next door all the time. We were buddies, his sister(14), on the other hand, was a total :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: . She picked on my all the time. I must listen to her, give her my pocket money, blah, blah, blah.

She rang and wrote letters to my school pretended to be my sister. She lied about me and got me into trouble all the time. She stole our house keys, broke into our place and stole money. One day my brother got home early and caught her. We should have called the police but we didn’t. Big mistake. I think she got into trouble a number of times since.

The trouble was she is such a sweet girl when there are adults around. I still don’t know why I was so scared to tell anyone about her, not even my own family.

FEAR can destroy your childhood.:(

[keith53]

If I ever found out my son was doing something like this to a little girl, I would kick his backside so hard he wouldn't sit down for a week and then I would tell him that there is a difference between respect and fear and if he thinks that making other kids fear him is getting him any respect I will give him something to fear.

Onya Silent. A man after my own heart..:D

[bennylaird]

Back on track, my wifes school has a strict policy on bullying and it is enforced when reported or noticed. Kids are given lessons on it as well. Like most things some cases never get reported for fear of even worse treatment.

This extends away from school, how many people ignore reporting wrong doing for fear of reprisals. The real bullies in society prey on it. They can seek revenge from the lock up as well.

Just watched a doco on the trade of sex slaves in Europe. They treat women like items, sell them off and they are raped and forced into prostitution etc. They get little help from the law and usually get deported when busted. All the time their "owners" threaten them will harm to their children and families if they cause problems.

Why cant decency take precedence here and these mongrels get rounded up and locked away. Maybe they dont control oil wells???????


Sorry not trying to hijack.

[TassieKiwi]

Boy, will this thread get some responses.

I was where you are 12 months ago Silent. Long story, but similar - older loser from G4 beating up on my kind, gentle, wonderfull little G1 Max. We did all the 'proper' things, but snapped when Max cam home unable to speak with a swollen tounge - ar5ewipe had pulled his hands off the steel equipment's ladder, chin hits rung, tooth through tounge. :eek: What made me white hot was that this happened at lunchtime, Max said that he begged for mum/dad to come, wasn't allowed, back to class with no pain relief, and no communication to parents. AAAAAAAAarrrrrgggghhhhhh! :mad: :mad: To think that I was sitting at my desk while some lowlife was methodically taking my boy's innocence away made me livid. Coupled of course with my own vivid memories of being bullied. Bastards.:mad:

We discovered systemic problems at the school, and mobed to the local Catholic school in town. A different world, sweetness and light. :) Max went from level 4 to level 15 in reading in his first term. Lots of communication from the school. Wonderful.

We too got the message that talking to the parents would get you nothing but a slap for you and probably the bully for good measure. If you really think how many kids are miss-treated by their own parents you would not stop crying, ever. Sigh.

I couldnt believe that I had to teach my son self-defence at age 6. He was on to it anyway - "dad, if I do that to him there'll just be payback" That school let my boy get hurt, they let him down.

None of this helps you of course. Communication, strategy, education, self-defense - change schools? Dunno. This is a national problem.:(

D

[Wongo]

The real bullies in society prey on it. They can seek revenge from the lock up as well.

It is FEAR. Same stuff. But it is not a couple of punches anymore. It is about your own safety and the safety of your family. Unfortunately those bastards know it so well. Bad people will continue to use fear as their weapon and it will always work.

Sorry guys, carry on.

[Wood Borer]

Darren,

Sorry to hear about you daughter’s situation.

I understand your frustration and theory about the parents possibly being responsible for their son’s behaviour. Obviously the kid has a big problem which he thinks will be solved by making the lives of others a misery.

Maybe someone like Derek can offer some assistance – using darkside methods of course.

I dearly hope the problem is resolved for everyone’s sake because school can be enough of challenge without this sort of activity complicating matters.

Perhaps you could take the kid under your wing and get him to test the sharpness of your blades – you always pull a chisel towards you don’t you?

[silentC]

Just got back from the school. The teacher can't really confirm or deny the allegation. He's the bad boy in class no doubt - but she thinks that could make him an easy target for blame. We know that something is troubling her. She hasn't settled down in class this year. We've arranged for a counsellor to talk to her and see if they can get to the bottom of it. As she said, things can go on in the playground that she would never be aware of but she hasn't noticed anything in class.

I saw the kid when we were there, he's not the same one I was thinking of. Looks like a little smart@rse but otherwise harmless enough - big for his age. My wife pointed to him and said "that's him". I will keep a very close eye on this. We have to be careful not to jump in boots and all.

Funny thing is I thought we wouldn't have any trouble with her, it's the son I was expecting to have the trouble with.

[Clinton1]

SilentC - not being a father I am prolly talking out my bum....but, I see it at an older persons stage (lete teens, early twenty's).

If you solve the problem, then she will not learn how to solve the problem for herself. There are some important lessons in learing to deal with bullies, and it won't be the last time she runs into one.

Unfortunately, learning lifes hard lessons is part and parcel of growing up...can you be her sounding board - give her the skills to deal with the little twit??

Maybe she is a bit young to deal with this?? Maybe when she is older?

Bet you'd rather just go in swinging though!

[arose62]

Looked into bullying a bit a couple of years ago to help my son.

One suggestion which I thought had merit was to get the victim to focus on counting the incidents, rather than reacting to them in any other way.

Eg: Bully: "You're a snot-face!"
Vic: "1"

B: "You're a scumbag!"
V: "2"

etc. The idea is that concentrating on counting prevents a whole lot of other reactions, and is not something that the bully expects, nor is it a reaction the bully wants.

I'd guess this works best when the bullying isn't physical.

My son wanted to learn boxing to protect himself, so I reluctantly agreed that he could have that as a last resort, once we'd discussed and tried several other approaches first (including getting back to his prior level of schoolwork). When he finally did thump the bully, he said he felt very calm about it, not lashing out from fear, but told the guy "I've tried A with you, I've tried B, and C, and D. The only other option I can think of is violence." At this stage the bully backed off, but my son followed him saying "I have to keep my word now". No probs since (apart from messy bedroom, too much TV, too little chores, too many phone calls, too little respect to parents .....)

Cheers,
Andrew

[Mirboo]

I was in a similar situation as your daughter when I was in kindergarten. There was a kid picking on me and I didn't want to go to kinder. My parents worked out through talking to me that I was being bullied and so my dad taught me how to punch. He showed me how to clench a proper fist and told me to punch the kid in the guts as hard as I could when next he was picking on me. It worked. He didn't pick on me again during my time in kindergarten.

This particular kid and I ended up going to the same primary school and high school. He was as thick as a brick and he must have only remembered stuff for about 2 years. Roughly every 2 years he would have a go at me again and I would have to thump him so that the bullying wouldn't start all over again. He dropped out after about year 9 so I didn't have to worry about him after that.

Another bully was gunning for me on the school bus when I was in about year 9. He would be at me every trip on the bus, both to and from school. He would take my stuff, punch me in the back of the head when I wasn't expecting it etc. (he sat a few seats behind me on the bus). This particular kid was in year 12 at the time. In the end I went and confronted him outside the year 12 common room. I called him outside and gave him a mouthful and he never bullied me again. During the confrontation I thought I was going to get thumped but it never happened. He just wanted the confrontation to be over because I suppose he was embarrassed by his year 12 mates seeing him getting called outside by a year 9.

Another time during high school a kid a year older than me was starting to bully me and so I didn't wait too long before confronting him. This time we did get into a fight and I got the crap beaten out of me. The result though was that the bullying stopped.

I think the lesson I learnt from these three events was that bullies don't like being confronted or resisted, even if by resisting them you cop a bit of a one-off beating. They will probably move on and pick on someone who puts up no resistance at all.

Not sure what you can take out of this to help your daughter silentC. I hope you can help her sort it out though. All the best.

[RufflyRustic]

..... What has changed? We asked her what was wrong and she comes out with this story. We told her this morning that we were going to talk to her teacher about it and she freaked out. Then she said that she made it up, he wasn't picking on her and she would just stay away from him.

There are two conclusions I can draw from that. I know which one I'm going with.
......

SilentC, why did your daughter freak out about you talking to the teacher? Is the teacher an uncaring bully too? (hoping to be very wrong here, but what you said above has been stuck in my head all day)

Wendy

[silentC]

We had one of two possible explanations for that: 1. she was fibbing about the bullying and didn't want us to tell the teacher because it was a lie or 2. she was scared of Reece finding out that she'd been "dobbing". I went with the latter because of other things she said to us.

We're not sure exactly to what extent, if any, the bullying has been taking place, so we have some more digging to do. I tend to give her the benefit of the doubt because she is usually very honest with us, but there could be something else going on in her little world that we don't know about yet. If it turns out that she has told us a porky, there will be stern words had.

[Wongo]

Wendy, I think we (adults) see the situation differently. She tells the true, we talk to the teachers, problem solved.

For a 7 year old girl, they see it differently. Bullies are like monsters (well they are), you cannot stop them. If you tell your parents then they might get upset and things will only get worse.

[Schtoo]

Well, that made for interesting discussion didn't it?

I don't know for sure that this Reece is in any way related to me, and I probably will never know. The only reason that mentioned it is that I don't know for sure where he is, the name fits and he is about that age, I think. Last time I saw him, he promised to be pretty sizeable and an annoying little bastich.

If it is so, then the problems there stretch back a loooong time, and there isn't any easy fix.

Well, there is but it's from the pointy end of a .308...


Now, I really worry about my son when he hits school. Prolly end up being the only kid in school who isn't Japanese, and will suffer for it. I just hope he works out how to deal with it for himself before it becomes a big problem because I doubt I will be able to do anything to help him.

That's mainly because too many parents here should be drowned at birth IMHO. Absolutely no discipline whatsoever, and then they wonder why the kids get into so much strife. Luckily, the culture here restricts the scale of the trouble kids manage, but that's changing for the worse every day.

I wouldn't wish him to solve his problems the way I had to after incessant bullying.

Getting hit doesn't tickle. ;)

[Wongo]

Schtoo,

In Asia, it is different. We are talking about gangsters, members of a triad, “who is your big brother” and “I know where you live” that kind of stuff. They are young criminals.

The best (only) approach is to stay away from them no matter what.

[Wood Borer]

The best (only) approach is to stay away from them no matter what.

Python Poo would sort them out Wongo;)

[Sturdee]

When I came here, because of my lack of English, some kids at school were stupid enough to pick on me. Little did they realise that I grew up in Amsterdam and learned street fighting like a pro.

When I had enough and confronted the bully and he put up his hands to box me. However he wasn't prepared for the swift kick to his nether parts followed by grabbing his head and smashing it against my raised knee. Then every time he moved I kicked him and hard.

That is the only way to deal with school bullies. Your daughter has to do it herself. Parents talking to teachers won't work. Instead teach your daughter some dirty street fighting techniques and back her up if she gets in trouble for having defended herself.

That way the bully gets bullied and your daughter will gain self esteem and she will respect you for believing her and trusting her.

Or give her a can of mace.

Peter

[ozwinner]

I was tortured as a kid at school by bullies, until that fatefull day when the worm turned.
So when my boy came home with horror stories about being bashed every day at school I saw red.

I confronted the other boys dad and told him that if his boy touches my son again I will seriously bash him and his wife.

The bullying stopped.:cool:

Now Im a bully. :(

Al :)

[dazzler]

Hi

My advice is to enrol your daughter in a martial art that focus' on strikes/blow/punches.

My 11yo does hapkido which employs these and uses blows very similar to law enforcement.

My motto with my son is simply

"no one ever bullies you - ever"

In the meantime show her how to punch, hard, straight to the face/nose using your hand at the bullies face level. this should become instinctive for her if you do it each day and will bring up her confidence.

Speak to the teachers about it and say you want it fixed.

Next time she is bullied tell her to hit him hard in the face twice, grab him and take him to ground continuing the strikes.

Tell her that you support her and if she gets in trouble you will tell the principle that you support her. 'No one ever bullies you- ever'

Whats the worst that can happen? Expelled? Suspended? Means nothing in the long term. Rather that than she end up with depression or worse.

My 11 yo did exactly this with a bully 20% larger than him. Doesnt get bullied no more;) .

Oh, and if anyone talks about being charged with assault, have never seen it as an issue in 18 years, specially a girl v boy

good luck

remember the motto:D

[RufflyRustic]

Thanks SilentC.

Wongo - yep - I do think differently to a child :) thanks for the different viewpoint to consider.

cheers
Wendy

[Zed]

a bunch of us were bul;lied at school by one kid, we cornered him ina toilet. ALL 9 or 10 of us. the problem stopped at that point... we DIDNT talk it out...

[Barry_White]

Silent I can relate to the bulling. My solution was that I made real good friends with the biggest toughest boy in the school who was actually a gentle giant but I never ever had any more problems in the three years at high school.

[Zed]

being a namby pamby does tn help. hit him back - whether you win or loose dont matter. they eventually stop if you keep hitting and showing them they can expect a fight ever time. bugger political correctness....:mad:

I wish I knew that as a kid... theres a few blokes I'd like to meet now. all 100Kg of me...:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[E. maculata]

Silent I feel your dismay, but with concerned caring parents like you it will be resolved, I wasn't bullied often as a child by other kids at school, even though we changed schools more times than I care to remember. I was bullied by my darker polynesian cousins, but not seriously enought to matter. The thing with us was/is we were brought up fairly hard, and were indifferent to school social hierachy.... didn't seem important dunno why always been like that, all that mattered was our bikes, fun and us, most other kids saw us as crazies who stuck together.
My next younger brother "A" was picked on by a alcoholic teacher in a pariochal country primary school,.... once........... he told Dad, end of bullying by that teacher anyway. Then when he follow me into high school an older boy (than me as well) went for him as he'd been unsucessful in raising any response from me, dumb choice "A" has always had and still has a mean cold streak in him, was a very quick nasty confrontation, & "A" was never ever even smart alecked again by other kids in that town.
My daughter has been bullied a few times, again nothing too serious, she's a 50kg, 150 cm tall 9 yr old, who races BMX bikes for fun:rolleyes: , apparently this helps her to handle it ok, and a coupla times SWMBO has had a quiet word with people who can fix it the right way. Also having "surrogate" big brothers from both BMX riding and from our social circle at the same school doesn't hurt my kids either, maybe thats another approach worth exploring, if available with friends or relatives nearby.

[ian]

Just got back from the school. The teacher can't really confirm or deny the allegation. He's the bad boy in class no doubt - but she thinks that could make him an easy target for blame. We know that something is troubling her. She hasn't settled down in class this year. We've arranged for a counsellor to talk to her and see if they can get to the bottom of it. As she said, things can go on in the playground that she would never be aware of but she hasn't noticed anything in class.

I saw the kid when we were there, he's not the same one I was thinking of. Looks like a little smart@rse but otherwise harmless enough - big for his age. My wife pointed to him and said "that's him". I will keep a very close eye on this. We have to be careful not to jump in boots and all.

Funny thing is I thought we wouldn't have any trouble with her, it's the son I was expecting to have the trouble with.Silent,
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but what you report about the teacher's response is UNACCEPTABLE.
The school has a duty of care to your daughter. No IFs no BUTs.
If they don't discharge that duty they are liable. You as a parent shouldn't have to threaden to take out an AVO against the bully before he school acts. A principled school administration will figuritively stomp on any bullies.

what ever you do, DO NOT LET THE TEACHERS / PRINCIPAL DO NOTHING

sorry for shouting

Ian

[Schtoo]

Wongo, it's the Yakuza here, but the same modus operandi no matter how old you are.

Most of them are reasonable enough, in their own way I guess.

Doesn't mean I do anything to attract attention from them though... ;)

[dazzler]

Silent,
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but what you report about the teacher's response is UNACCEPTABLE.
The school has a duty of care to your daughter. No IFs no BUTs.
If they don't discharge that duty they are liable. You as a parent shouldn't have to threaden to take out an AVO against the bully before he school acts. A principled school administration will figuritively stomp on any bullies.

what ever you do, DO NOT LET THE TEACHERS / PRINCIPAL DO NOTHING

sorry for shouting

Ian

Quite right Ian

Plus an AVO only teaches a child that others will take care of thier problems for them. Plus they mean NOTHING unfortunately.

Dazzler

[silentC]

Thanks for the input one and all. At this point we are "monitoring the situation". The teacher is going to have a chat to her. I think it's important that we make sure something actually did happen before any steps are taken.

On bullies in general, I was talking to my wife about this yesterday. There are two types of bullies: the ones who want to show off or be accepted by their peers; and the ones who are just bad kids. The former are easy to deal with. If you stand up to them, they turn to water.

The latter are a problem. They either have a mental problem or they have been abused themselves. They are the ones who, if you stood up to them, they would be waiting for you outside the school gates and would king hit you with a lump of wood. We had a couple like that, and as I said earlier, at least one of them is in gaol. One other guy I went to school with went to Sydney a couple of years after dropping out of school. He and a mate hired a cab, got him to take them up some dark back street in Sydney, grabbed him, tied him up and put him in the boot, and set fire to the cab. He wasn't so much of a bully though, he just used to bash the teachers.

Anyway, the point is that it's not always a great idea to use force, unless you know you can handle it when things get out of hand. I just can't see my little girl, who weighs 20kg ringing wet, taking out a kid who is a foot taller and twice her weight. I'm not really sure I want her to. She's a lover not a fighter! And it would make me sad to see her turn into something else because of this. I know you have to stand up for yourself and we as parents can't just make all the problems go away, much as we'd like to.

They teach the kids to get together and tell bullies that they don't like what they are doing - try and shame them into stopping. It might work on the young and not so serious bullies. I personally think that some kids can't be helped but good on the ole education department for trying.

It's a tough one, I wish I had all the answers. My Dad thought he did when he told me to deal with it with my fists. It's easy to say but when you are a little kid faced by a big angry bully, you tend to forget your Dad's words of encouragement. As a parent, I'd like to wade in boots and all, confront the parents and the bully. But I'll go for the soft option first. We'll do it the teacher's way and see what happens. If we see no improvement, then we'll move it up a notch.

[Phil Spencer]

As I have just discovered, a very worrying and frustrating time in a parent's life is when one of your kids comes home from school and tells you that they are being picked on. Yes, our 7 year old daughter has told us that an 8 year old boy, by the name of Reece, who is the biggest kid in her class (she's in a mixed class with year 1 & 2 kids), has been calling her names and picking on her in the playground. It got to the point last week where she did not want to go to school. We asked her what was wrong and she eventually told us about it.

So my first reaction is to find out who the kid is and confront his parents. I mean what sort of cowardly little #### are they raising that he gets his kicks out of picking on a little girl? Then I'd like a few moments alone in a locked room with him. I think I know who he is. I used to help out with Auskick last year and I'm pretty sure he is the same fat little ##### that I took an instant disliking to. He never did what he was told and used to bully the other kids around, especially the little ones.

Bullies are all cowards and if you confront them, they turn to water. But this guy is at least twice the size of my daughter. So, we've made an appointment to go up to the school and discuss it with her teacher. I will be suggesting that they get his parents in and have a little talk about it. I'd love to be there too. Kids usually get their behaviour from their parents one way or another. If I ever found out my son was doing something like this to a little girl, I would kick his backside so hard he wouldn't sit down for a week and then I would tell him that there is a difference between respect and fear and if he thinks that making other kids fear him is getting him any respect I will give him something to fear.

I have you in my sights now, Reece, you fat little ####.

Had this problem when my daughter (now 27) was at school, this fat little twerp was picking on her and hurting her physically, we went to the school their solution was to make the offender sit on the steps at lunchtime didn't work. Had a word with his mum (a single mum off her head with drugs) my final solution was to lurk around the gate at knock off time and place a firm hand on his shoulder and have a little talk with him pointing out the theory of cause and effect and what would happen to him if he kept bullying my daughter. The problem stopped and we had no more problems had to use a firm hand and make sure that I left no bruises and did not get caught.

Regards

Phil

[bennylaird]

I was a big kid at school so never suffered much. That is except for one small guy, think most of his family are now enjoying housing from our justice system. He would insight a fight and if you retaliated his brothers would come and join in. Sometimes you just have to walk away from a no win situation. Those types will never let it rest and have no morals to live by.

[Wood Borer]

Thank goodness none of my family were victims of bullies that I know about.

From what I have seen whilst at school and in work places bullies rarely carry out their threats, most of the time they are not capable. It seems that their solution to solving their own inferiority complex problems is to control others through something they are afraid of – fear.

If this is true, then the logical approach would be to fix the element that is broken ie the wiring in the bully’s head rather than create an environment so the effects of the bully’s behaviour have less impact on others.

The trouble is, there are too many do gooders who seem to be batting for the rights of the bully including the parents of the bully. The schools wish it wasn’t happening and tend to go into denial fearing an endless amount of paper work, legal implications and lesser promotional prospects (you were the teacher involved in that legal case about bullying that was in the newspapers – go away trouble maker).

The parents of the victims can’t stand around and watch their kids lead a miserable life with possible life long effects so they take the law into their own hands. Bashing the bully, physically separating the bully and victims etc.

This seems to be an issue that education departments and governments are paying lip service to and not addressing the problems long term. Perhaps convincing the politicians that fixing this problem will improve the god like economy might see some action, maybe make a link to terrorism – the enemy within our midst.

Until something thorough is done about this problem, I guess people with mental problems will continue to be bashed and tortured whilst seeking out other victims who cannot retaliate.

What becomes of the school yard bullies later in life, who knows – serial killers, rapists, paedophiles or perhaps politicians.

[echnidna]

I had a kid picking me for weeks at school.
He started on me again during one lunchtime while I was eating my pie.
So he ended up with a four and twenty right in the face.
Then he beat me up.
Coupla days later I said I was sorry for poking the pie in his face, as I had to go without lunch that day. No troubles after that

My outlook is if you can't avoid a fight then inflict maximum pain,
Thats more important than winning the fight.
No one picks someone who will hurt them.

[Bodgy]

That's mainly because too many parents here should be drowned at birth IMHO.

Thats an interesting philosophical proposition, Schtoo, when you think about it.

[Schtoo]

I was wondering when someone was going to pick that up.

Kinda like the chicken and the egg, kinda... ;)

[HappyHammer]

This is an issue I'm dreading as well from either side of the equation.

When I was 11 I was bullied at school and over a period of six months I went from one extreme to the other from bullied to bully. We need to be careful when preparing our kids for these situation that they do not go too far. I managed it all on my own as my parents were totally unaware I was being bullied as I was too embarrased to tell my Dad it was happening.

I think my daughter will handle it verbally by bringing them down a peg or two without resorting to violence. My son on the other hand is a little softer and I play rough and tumble with him regularly to try and avoid him suggesting he's getting bullied or hit when in fact it's just boisterous behaviour in the playground. I will also teach them to punch properly and I have already told them both that if someone hits them on purpose they should hit them back.

If self defence doesn't work I think we'll approach the school and then the parents and if I felt it (or me) was going to escalate out of hand I'd move them to another school. Whilst moving school would be a trauma the continued bullying could have worse short and long term affects. This decision would erk me considerably but it's not what's best for my ego it's about what's best for my kids in the short and long term, they go to school for an education after all both scholastic and social.

HH.

[AlexS]

Don't think I can add much to this that hasn't already been said. Silent, you are obviously approaching thiswith a lot of thought, and I hope come up with the best result, if there is one.

While I don't advocate violence (especially if it's likely to be returned) I can think of two examples that have worked. At school, we had a sadistic teacher (even by the standards of the 1950s-60s). Despite requests from parents, the principal wouldn't believe a teacher could be so bad - never thought to ask sthe students. So one parent took his son, they marched into the principal's office unannounced and the kid dropped his strides to show his black & blue bum. The teacher was warned that he had gone too far, so he started using 'crowpecks' - a hard thump on the head with his knuckle. The first time he tried it on with this kid, the kid king-hit the teacher, then marched straight to the principal's office and announced what he'd done. The teacher was moved on, probably to some other unfortunate school.

In the army, I only ever saw one perpetrator of bastardry - a crummy corporal at that. One night, about a dozenm of us tied him to a flagpole naked. But as it was midwinter, we didn't want him to freeze, so we left him a blanket. Only a yard or so away. This could probably have had us shot for mutiny, but I suspect that the higher-ups knew what he was like and nothing was ever said.

[dazzler]

I can remember a 'friend' who had a child who was very depressed due to bullying. He walked smiling up to the bully and said to him

"Bully again and i will sneak into your house and kill you"

No more bullying but often wonder how the bully ended up :o

[ian]

Dazzler
at my son's school any kid who retaliates by thumping the bully is in as much if not more trouble than the bully.

The principle adopted is that the bully must mend their ways or leave the school

ian

[ian]

Thanks for the input one and all. At this point we are "monitoring the situation".

On bullies in general ...Silent,

these quotes come from the Education Department's web site

every student has the right to expect that he or she will spend the school day (both in and out of the classroom) free from bullying and intimidation.

Strategies to counter bullying form part of the school's implementation of the Student Welfare Policy.

all reported cases of bullying are invstigated

don't let your daughter's teacher shirk their responsibility


ian

[Driver]

At school, we had a sadistic teacher (even by the standards of the 1950s-60s).

The worst example of bullying I ever saw was at school (same era, Alex). We had a woodwork/metalwork teacher who was an absolute bastard. He was a big, muscular, angry thug. He picked on a kid in my class who, in different circumstances, would have been a target for a bully amongst the students. However the treatment he received from the teacher was so bad that it generated plenty of sympathy amongst the rest of us - so he was never targeted by students.

Towards the end of my time at school, the teacher was refereeing a house Rugby match (of final year students, 17-18 year-olds). His behaviour in the preceding weeks had been so bad that all 30 players conspired to rough him up. We took turns during the match to deliberately hammer into him, rake him with studs, "accidentally" fend him off with a closed fist in the face, etc. Just before half-time, I managed to drive head first into his guts on a blind-side run around a scrum. By then he had got the message. He stopped the game, sent me off and told the rest of the players that he would "take serious action" against the next player that made contact with him.

At half-time, the headmaster had arrived to watch proceedings. He grilled me as to why I had been side-lined and I told him I had made accidental contact with the teacher. Immediately after half-time the biggest kid in the school, who was playing flank-forward for my team, collected the referee across the throat with an "accidental" coat-hanger. This kid was 6'-6" and about 14 stone. The teacher dropped like an empty sock and had to be taken to the sick room for treatment.

We all expected to be in trouble. Oddly, nothing was ever said.

Several years later, I ran across another teacher from the old school and he brought up the subject of that house match. He remembered I had been playing and that I was sent off. His comment about the bullying bastard was that he and his colleagues were surprised it had taken us so long to take revenge.

Darren, I hope you and your wife and daughter can work this out. My daughter, who is now 28, copped some bullying from a neighbour's son. My girl is a happy soul without a vicious bone in her body. The option of teaching her to hit back was never on. I confronted the kid who was doing the bullying - in front of his parents - and told him that if he so much as looked at my girl with a frown on his face, I would personally kick his @rse. His mother wasn't pleased but his father reacted quite well. The bullying stopped.

Two years ago, the same bloke had the bad luck to play football (Aussie Rules) on the opposing side to my daughter's little brother - who is actually not little at all. This was more than twelve years since the bullying had occurred but my son has a long memory. I didn't see the game but my son's mates tell me he delivered one of the best - entirely legal - shirtfronts they had seen. Revenge is a dish best eaten cold. My daughter pretended to be annoyed with her brother when she was told about it but we all know she was very proud.

[knucklehead]

Silent, with a very quite 7 year old girl of my own I can feel your pain.:mad:
As tempting as it is to vent my anger all over the key board, I'll refame and just add a couple of points.

1. Put your complaints in writting to the school and demand a response in kind. This is an instant notice to any offical that you are serious.

2. If no response from above, write directly to the parents.

3. Bullying is against the law. If the school fails in its duty of care to stop it, charge the bully with assault.

4. Allways try to keep the moral high ground, belting anyone will get you in a whole world of hurt.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Wow, what a subject!

I like Schtoo have kids here in Japan, now mine are a little older, 12 and 10, both lovely girls.

Yes we have had and still have problems with racists, simple minds. Straight up, we dealt with it.

The first time, my eldest, at the time about 8, was heckled all the way home from school, about a 10 minute walk. I was not around, when she came in, she was devastated, my wife was furious, I have never seen my lovely wife SO MAD, and I hope to never see it again :eek:

She called the school the next day, and the principal said he would talk to the boys. The four boys were all a year ahead of my daughter, but are actually smaller than her :rolleyes:.

Well the next day, they did it again, but this time I was waiting, when they turned the last corner, my wife and I were standing there.

I told the boys, in a very level, very cool voice, that if they EVER made my daughter cry again, I would make them cry.....for....a.....very......long....time.

One of the boys actually wet himself :D

Did not lay a finger on them, just talked.

We then went to the school, and I walked into the principals office and I shouted the ####er down so loud, that the rest of the staff where hiding under their desks, I told him that if this was not dealt with NOW, he would have some REAL trouble with me, and I would get MAD. I called him a coward and a liar, as he TOLD my wife he would take care of it.

The next day, the principal, the four boys, and four dads came to our shop and apologize to my daughter. We have not had a problem since.

I have to say, the most important thing we did, was to get involved at the school, my wife has been a member of the PTA for years now, and I go and help out all the time, at sports days etc. I know all the teachers, and they know me, I know most of the kids, and they know me.

This is really the best thing we can do, the kids know who we are, and the stories got around about what happened the last time one of my kids was bullied, so we are dealing with it.

I got bullied in school, my dad told me to punch the guy in the face and then put my head between my knees and kiss my ass goodbye :D

I took a few shots before we got pulled apart, but I gave the bully a bloody nose,　 and he did not bully me again. Then just to add to the whole "revenge is a dish best eaten cold" line of thought, a few years later, when we played (American) football together, same team, he was a running back, I was a defensive lineman, we got to do 3/4 speed tacking drills :D

I once hit him at the belt level, picked him up, and planted him in the ground, and then stepped on him when I got up....... of course by then I was about 85Kg and he was all of 60Kg.

Silent C, don't worry about stepping in on your daughter's behalf, yes she has to deal with some stuff herself, for sure, but you, sir, are her father, and you cannot do it wrong if you are defending her from physical harm, not in my book anyway, just do not leave any marks, or have any witnesses ;) :rolleyes:

Tough situation for sure, hope it works out.

Sorry for the longwinded reply!:o

[Schtoo]

I told the boys, in a very level, very cool voice, that if they EVER made my daughter cry again, I would make them cry.....for....a.....very......long....time.

One of the boys actually wet himself :D





Stu, if you said that to me, I'd prolly wet myself too. :eek: :D

[Stu in Tokyo]

Stu, if you said that to me, I'd prolly wet myself too. :eek: :D

Maybe when you were nine :rolleyes: :D

You know how they say "I'm going to hit you so hard your dog will bleed" well I tried to translate that once, to a Japanese friend......... wow, that was two hours well spent.....:rolleyes: Nope, he did not get it :D

How are you doing anyways Papa?

Cheers!

[Sturdee]

1. Put your complaints in writting to the school and demand a response in kind. This is an instant notice to any offical that you are serious.

.

Whilst I would advocate the other option, if you are going to do the above also sent a copy to the department's regional office and mark your letter to the school accordingly.

Amazing how quickly and efficiently a school principal will act when they realise that someone much more senior is being kept informed of their action.


Peter.

[bennylaird]

Most teachers will be doing the right thing, sometimes they just get given too much.
An "extra needs" student can be hard work, no control in class, hurting other students and then when removed to the principles office just keeps calling her an effing female dog. Sometimes this process of integrating these sorts of kids is all wrong.

[DanP]

IMO, "extra needs" students (your terms not mine), belong in an extra needs students school. That is the only way they have of fulfilling whatever potential their parents have allowed them. Bully kids will not stop. They might stop with the few who stand up to them but then they just find a weaker target.

Never rest on this issue Darren. If you have no joy with the teacher, go to the principal. If you have no joy with the principal, go the the next link and so on. Find out how to get in contact with his parents and follow up with them if you think you might acheive something with them. However, if he is a typical bully, his parents will probably just flog him and he'll be in a worse position than before.

I wish you well Silent. My eldest starts 3YO kinder next year :eek:

Dan

[silentC]

My only fear at the moment is that, because she didn't want us to go to the teacher, and then she saw us there talking to her, she may clam up now. She was all smiles yesterday. She has seven cousins at the same school, one is a boy in year 4. I'm going to have a chat to him on the weekend and get him to keep an eye on her. I said to the missus maybe we should get him and a couple of his mates to pay young Reece a visit. Just joking! I don't want him to get involved physically but at least he can tell me if anything is going on.

[jmk89]

My only fear at the moment is that, because she didn't want us to go to the teacher, and then she saw us there talking to her, she may clam up now. She was all smiles yesterday. She has seven cousins at the same school, one is a boy in year 4. I'm going to have a chat to him on the weekend and get him to keep an eye on her. I said to the missus maybe we should get him and a couple of his mates to pay young Reece a visit. Just joking! I don't want him to get involved physically but at least he can tell me if anything is going on.

Good idea. Information is the most important thing. Then when you know what has been going on, you can let your daughter know that you know the true story. Then you have a chance of finding out what is really the problem.

Good luck. As I said before, I am not looking forward to dealing with this if and when it becomes an issue for my kids.

[bennylaird]

These bullies have to much Bejesus. Just need to beat it out of them?

[RufflyRustic]

I wonder if it's possible to 'kill a bully with kindness'?

[Wood Borer]

It would certainly play with their mixed up heads.

[dazzler]

Hi

Sorry if I seem to be rather focused on tackling the bully head on with violence.:o

However, leaving it up to others may not always work. So give the process a chance but make it just one bow in the arsenal.

For those who have been around a while may remember my wife had a massive mental breakdown at the hands of a bully. (and she was a hard cop when it came to a fight :D ). We used the touchy feely system put in place to deal with it and in the end it caused as much damage as the bully. Should have belted him in the beginning.

Sometimes we just gotta stand up for ourselves and our children. With a girl particularly I think you would want them to have the confidence to stand up to a male, even if it may hurt. Better that than living in fear of a bullying spouse later on.

Letting others sort it may also further the lack of confidence in a child. The change in my 11 yo after he took his bully down is amazing.:)

Bullies just need a bullying:mad:

[goat]

ok every thing i said in a earlier post just went out the window i just put pj's on my boy and he's black and blue i asked what happened and he don't want to talk about it , old bag just told me that he has been kicked in the nuts and upper leggs by the look of the bruising it was reported to the head master and he put my boy in time out! ar..hole ,the offender got away with it( ok some hystory)this offender well it's a whole family (as there was 6 kids)turned up 1/2 way through last year kicked out of there last school (and town) with leopords spots in there hair so they was easy to reconize from day 1 the whole school was turned upside down just about every kid was a victim of a bashing or 2 this kept happening till the parents stormed the school and the head master ended up teaching the kids in his own office till the end of the year and he got a tranfer every thing has been reasonablly quiet ) till the last few weeks so monday i will confront the new (chicken sh.t) head master then if i get no joy i feel compelled to go and belt the crap out of the parents of these kids for raising such crap kids sorry for ranting on but i am usually very placid this has just made my blood boil:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[dazzler]

Thats very bad Goat.

Good luck mate:)

[goat]

oh it was a girl that kicked my boy thats why he don''t want to talk about it he's very embarressed poor little bugger and i'm fuming

[goat]

thanks dazzler oh and old bag is a pet name just incase any one was wondring

[ian]

Goat
you MUST MUST document the evidence. Even if it means waking your son get some photos NOW. Try and get a doctor's report as well.
Don't forget that by Sunday or Monday DoCS (or it's local equivalent) will assume that you've caused the bruising and you could be faced with proving you didn't -- yeah it stinks but that's how the system is contitioned to work.

On Monday confront the principal with the evidence and demand
1 to know what action he proposes so it doesn't happen again
2 when he proposes to pay your son's medical expenses. Don't take no for an answer. One thing all principal's fear is having to explain their expenditure to the higher ups.

ian

[Studley 2436]

Possibly good to call your local MP and also the Minister. Offer to call John Laws and also Alan Jones if they stonewall you.

Studley

[Shannon Nash]

I have a 5yo daughter. I would like to hope this will not happen to her but it may well happen.

There are a number of great points raised through this thread and a number that may well prove counter productive.

Ganhdi suggested that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Violence can't solve violence. What is happening in Lebanon and Israel at the moment?

Self defence is absolutely valid should it be needed but revenge is such an awful human habit. It makes one worse than the original perpetrator.

Schools do have policies in place and from what I can see of the reply by the teacher the school was not aware of the problem and that it would be investigated through future observation of your daughter and her bully.

I also don't think there is one answer for bullying situations. So many of the 'apples have not fallen very far from the tree at all'. This is very clear.

Certainly letting a student bully know that what they are doing is not acceptable is fine but threatening them also 'making sure no one is watching, no witnesses' is in itself bordering on assault and is certainly bullying. Is it not just doing the same as the bully? Stand over? I am bigger than you and will do ???? if you do ???? to so and so.

As parents it makes our hearts ache. Our kids are our greatest resource they are the future of the world.

Lets do our best to teach them right. All of them not just our own. Those little Sh*ts who have a sh*t upbringing and are bullying, don't they deserve the support and proper guidance of adults that believe, as all here clearly do, that bullying is not on, that all have a right to be and feel safe? They have been dealt a sh*t card in life and need our help as much as our own kids do.

The older cousin is a really good step. Not as a protector but as a member of your daughters support network at school.

Being at and around the school PTA etc is also a great way of supporting kids and being a presence in their schooling.

IMHO!

[dazzler]

I have a 5yo daughter. I would like to hope this will not happen to her but it may well happen.

There are a number of great points raised through this thread and a number that may well prove counter productive.

Ganhdi suggested that "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Violence can't solve violence. What is happening in Lebanon and Israel at the moment?

Self defence is absolutely valid should it be needed but revenge is such an awful human habit. It makes one worse than the original perpetrator.

Schools do have policies in place and from what I can see of the reply by the teacher the school was not aware of the problem and that it would be investigated through future observation of your daughter and her bully.

I also don't think there is one answer for bullying situations. So many of the 'apples have not fallen very far from the tree at all'. This is very clear.

Certainly letting a student bully know that what they are doing is not acceptable is fine but threatening them also 'making sure no one is watching, no witnesses' is in itself bordering on assault and is certainly bullying. Is it not just doing the same as the bully? Stand over? I am bigger than you and will do ???? if you do ???? to so and so.

As parents it makes our hearts ache. Our kids are our greatest resource they are the future of the world.

Lets do our best to teach them right. All of them not just our own. Those little Sh*ts who have a sh*t upbringing and are bullying, don't they deserve the support and proper guidance of adults that believe, as all here clearly do, that bullying is not on, that all have a right to be and feel safe? They have been dealt a sh*t card in life and need our help as much as our own kids do.

The older cousin is a really good step. Not as a protector but as a member of your daughters support network at school.

Being at and around the school PTA etc is also a great way of supporting kids and being a presence in their schooling.

IMHO!

Some good stuff there Shannon. But wait until your daughter refuses to go to school, cries not too, thinks up non existant illnesss, walks with her shoulders slumped ....

all because a little piece of garbage decides to take out thier lifes miseries on your child.

We are not talking about revenge at all. Just stopping the trauma dead in its tracks.

I will 'sacrifice" any piece of garbage that makes my childs life a misery. I will always give the school a chance, but if it doesnt work then thats it and then its up to the parent and the kid to finish it.

When I was OS for 8 months a little piece of garbage, a teachers son mind you, made my 5 yo life and ours a misery. School couldnt achieve anything, his father wasnt interested, and it didnt stop until the little piece of garbage was threatened.

Not nice, bad luck, my child comes first.

The schoolyard is not lebanon, but can be a battlefield all the same.

I dont think I would be a happy camper if I spent my time looking after my childs tormentor at my childs expense

sorry, just dont agree :)
cheers

dazzler

[Stu in Tokyo]

Shannon I agree with a lot of what you have to say, and cannot agree with other stuff. Violence does solve things, WWII is a good example, but that is for a different discussion.

First, you have to protect your child from the physical violence of the bully. Often that means making it too expensive for the bully to get away with what they are doing, either by public ridicule, involving the school, or a direct threat to take legal, and perhaps threaten illegal action.

I mentioned that I told the 4 boys who were tormenting my daughter that I would make them cry, well I did, I made them cry in front of their teacher and their fathers, but I did not lay one finger on them, nor did I intend to. A 40 year old man, does not strike a 10 year old boy.

When we are talking about the truly weird and warped members of our society, well then you are really in a mess, and you need to get the cops and the law involved, but when you are talking about a school yard bully.....

Not every school yard bully turns into Charles Manson, often they are just doing some crap, because they can. The guy I had problems with at school, that I eventually got back on the playing field, all straight up and fair, now, years later when we bump into each other, we laugh about stuff like that, and wonder how we made it though that time in our lives with out a permanent limp :D

Just to end this on a fun question, why do we pay our taxes (I'll assume you guys pay taxes down there) why?

Because, if we don't the government would kill us........... :D

Shannon, this is not a personal attack, I'm just choosing to disagree with some of the things you have said, as I'm sure you will not agree with stuff I've said.

Have a great day!

[Lignum]

by public ridicule



Qiet often its the best method. Bullies thrive on power and alot of them can take some pain. But all of them hate to be ridiculed. Its a bit like Kryptonite for Bullies and drains their power. The embaresment is often to much for them when they realise "everyone" is just laughing at them behind their backs. If you could keep the do-gooders at bay, schools should have a "bully" alert once a week at assembly, where the Principle anounces the "Bully" of the week in front of the entire school, and list their weeks "acheivements" How would the bully feel if that happend. Pretty low i guess.

[Stu in Tokyo]

Qiet often its the best method. Bullies thrive on power and alot of them can take some pain. But all of them hate to be ridiculed. Its a bit like Kryptonite for Bullies and drains their power. The embaresment is often to much for them when they realise "everyone" is just laughing at them behind their backs. If you could keep the do-gooders at bay, schools should have a "bully" alert once a week at assembly, where the Principle anounces the "Bully" of the week in front of the entire school, and list their weeks "acheivements" How would the bully feel if that happend. Pretty low i guess.

Would never happen, but I got to say, BRILLIANT!! :D:D

[E. maculata]

I second that bleedin great idea!
My Girl got 2 awards at school this week, 1 for effort insports, 1 for christain behaviour (catholics go figure:rolleyes: :p still made us real proud she does) now imagine the parents whose kids come home with the "bully of the weak" award, gotta be a good feelin' that one, followed up with maybe a mention in the school or local papers school section.

[Studley 2436]

Bully of the week sounds too much like an award. Why not Dweeb of the week or "this weeks embarresment"?

Studley

[journeyman Mick]

Qiet often its the best method. Bullies thrive on power and alot of them can take some pain. But all of them hate to be ridiculed. Its a bit like Kryptonite for Bullies and drains their power. The embaresment is often to much for them when they realise "everyone" is just laughing at them behind their backs. If you could keep the do-gooders at bay, schools should have a "bully" alert once a week at assembly, where the Principle anounces the "Bully" of the week in front of the entire school, and list their weeks "acheivements" How would the bully feel if that happend. Pretty low i guess.

Great idea, but can you imagine all the bleeding hearts jumping up and down about this.

Mick

[Rossluck]

I think that in the end the buck stops with the principal. When your children go to a school with a strong, "on the ball" principal, a lot of these bullying problems just don't occur. When they do, they're dealt with quickly and with strongly and with a "don't muck around with me" attitude.

A lot of the posts that I've read here are bursting with the frustration of parents who have protected their children all their lives and now have to send them to school where they are being hurt. Worse still, there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done about it.

My answer? If the principal isn't strong enough to deal with it, then parents have to deal with it with their own strength but through the principal. That is, ride the weak principal until they're forced to do something about it. They'll eventually relay the pressure imposed on them by parents to the rest of the staff and ultimately to the bully and it's parents.

In my experience, too many parents aquiesce to the "wisdom" of teachers when it comes to their children. Teachers can be so good at "setting parents straight" with calm, authoritative -- but completely wrong -- assessments of what's happening at school. This is because, as in every walk of life, there are good ones and bad ones ....

[Driver]

Bullies thrive on power and alot of them can take some pain. But all of them hate to be ridiculed. Its a bit like Kryptonite for Bullies and drains their power. The embaresment is often to much for them

Lignum

You've hit the nail on the head (if that isn't too violent a metaphor ;) ).

When I confronted the 16-year old tosser in front of his parents and told him I'd kick his @rse if he bullied my daughter, two things happened:-

1) His teenage power-aura was suddenly shattered by a direct threat from someone who quite obviously was capable of carrying it out. This was a massive shock to him.

2) He was humiliated in a very public and obvious way.

His immediate reaction was quite interesting. I've never seen anyone's face go so red so quickly. He couldn't meet anyone's gaze. Not mine, not his father's, not his mother's. He was hugely embarrassed.

In the case of the teacher-bastard whom we roughed up on the rugby pitch, something very similar occurred. His power over the school's students was suddenly revealed as an illusion and - at the same time - he got a very rough public humiliation.

I don't know whether either of these events was a life-changing circumstance for the two bullies involved. However, in both cases the specific bullying stopped - immediately.

Mick is right about the potential reaction of the bleeding hearts. Their problem is that they try to make rules to meet the generalities of life. However, life is actually lived in the specific.

[Stu in Tokyo]

...........Mick is right about the potential reaction of the bleeding hearts. Their problem is that they try to make rules to meet the generalities of life. However, life is actually lived in the specific...........
Ladies and Gentlemen, now THAT is a keeper!! :D

[Riverland]

Well lm stumped when it comes to that l had same problem with one of my kids and after months of this and nothing being done by police or the school l decided to take matters into my own hands and l can tell you now when your child is being hurt you will do anything to help your child so im telling you what not todo. l tried everything to stop this kid from bulling my kid. Noone could do anything so l payed another group of school kids to sort out the one who was hurting my kid. DONT EVER DO THAT. After doing that my child was not touched again but now all l have done is l became what l hated most about my school years and what my son hated. Get the kids family up to the school with teachers and talk to them.:(