Dying Everest Climber - What would you have done?

[silentC]

Understand all that Rich. The problem is that a few days later, a similar thing happened to another climber, except this time the guys who found him aborted their summit attempt and organised a rescue (or so I have read). OK, so he probably walked down under his own steam and maybe the earlier guy was not capable of that. The point is, there are exceptions to the rules that people are quoting regarding survival (or not) in the Dead Zone.

At the end of the day, it was a judgement call on the part of the people on the scene whether or not to attempt to save the guy. Who can know whether the same decision would be made by different people under the same circumstances? Is it as simple as looking at a guy and saying he is beyond help, or are there other factors that would determine how one person, or group of people, would respond? How qualified to make that call were the people who were there? I suppose this is what people are questioning, especially when someone else was rescued in similar circumstances - and after all of the words I have read justifying the first party's actions because of the impossibility of rescue at that altitude. Never say never because as soon as you do, someone proves you wrong ;)

[silkwood]

"I've actually seen the top of everest....from 6000ft"Shedhand

Shedhand, at 6000ft you would have bumped into Kosciouszko!:rolleyes: :p ;)

Cheers,

[rrich]

SilentC,
In yesterday's LA Times there was a much better explanation of the incident. Several sherpas attempted to help Sharp with Oxygen. Aparently Sharp was beyond help at that point. Also, I believe that the rescue was from an elevation much less than Sharp's location.

Evidently Sharp and his partner were on an unguided climb. The partner made the summit and then got back to ABC where he died.

The situation is a tragic one. I think that the mentality is triage like. Save the ones that you can and pray for the ones that you can't.

I shudder when I think about it, but it is a different environment than I am accustomed to.

[Studley 2436]

I was reading that the climb leader of Inglis's group thought that Sharp was allready dead. They were close to the spot where there is a dead climber frozen and still standing there years after his death that's what they thought.

The story also went on that Everest is a bit of a circus. All sorts of theft and sabotage go on. Some people just rock up on the bargain basement end of things and assume that someone will rescue them if they get in trouble. Of course if you make the effort to be really properly set up do you sacrifice your supplies and oxygen that you very well might need because someone is up there without proper preparation? You'd have to be there to know what you would do.

The Oz Army was there and found they had to lock their tents to prevent theft and also had to run an intel op to find out who was with them who was against them to ensure their safety. The Everest climb to me seems to be a sad commentary on human nature. That's not to say anything bad about climbing or climbers beyond that. I can understand the desire to stretch yourself to achieve and the push to face a challenge and succeed. Climbing mountains is an admirable pursuit just that what happens each year at Everest is a different thing. Actually I am pretty sure that a serious climber who ignores Everest but has summited on other 8000m plus peaks would be held by his group in just as high regard.

Studley

[CameronPotter]

Now more stories are coming out with various version sof events, how many of these can be right? Possibly all - if viewed from different angles.

The first reports (ala Hilary) seemed to indicate that this man could be saved. The later reports said that he couldn't. Then they said that he would have died if he was moved. Furthermore, some people say that to spend time with someone up there is to run out of oxygen and die, but some reports say that someone did wait with him for 90 minutes... It all seems a bit confused, although I suspect that a fair amount of the confusion is either grandstanding or tail-covering, I don't know which.

I think that what most people here were complaining about though was more the concept (rather than the people necessarily) that someone's goals might come before another person's life.

As for the comment by Studley:

Actually I am pretty sure that a serious climber who ignores Everest but has summited on other 8000m plus peaks would be held by his group in just as high regard.
Studley

You may be right, I can't say for sure. But I suspect that it would be more akin to someone doing perfect handcut finger joints and another doing perfect hand cut dovetails. They are both joints, they both required precision to do, but the dovies would get more respect. Like it or not, there are benchmarks. These often don't make much sense, but people still use them as a measuring stick. Another example, think about sports. No-one cares if you almost break a record, but if you do break a record, then it is a big deal.

Personally, I agree with you, but I would guess that most people wouldn't...

[silkwood]

Couple of points:

If I found someone dying I'd probably try to stay with them a while too. In that position someone has to judge for themselves. It is also possible that IF someone stayed with him for 90 minutes they did'nt know it was that long. People have been known to die on summits because they left it too long to descend. Those with them who survived have said they thought they were only up there for half an hour or so, when in reality they have stayed in one place for hours.

There seems to be some derision of the fact that Sharp was not with a guided group. In fact many attempts are made by independent climbers, it's actually the guided groups who are looked down upon by many. There is constant discussion about whether or not this is a good thing. More people on the mountain (possibly) creates more danger for those involved.

As for budget and ill equiped groups, this is true to an extent. But consider many feel they are well enough equipped, only to realise at a critical (read life-threatening) point they are not. Fees were reduced this year, due to unrest in Nepal, but it is still not a budget trip by any standards.

Not everyone uses oxygen ( Reinhold Messner and Peter Habeler first oxygen-free ascent 1978) though the majority do, and who knows whether you are going to make it or not until it is perhaps too late.

AMS hits without favour. There is no strong evidence to confirm being "fitter" either aerobically or muscularly is of benefit. Mind you, if you're not at least "bloody fit" you're not going to get high enough to find out!

Everest News puts it well: "We will never know the whole story of who helped David and who did not. We will never know the whole story of his summit attempt and descent where he ended up next to the previously dead climber in the rock cave on Everest."

Cheers,

[Shedhand]

"I've actually seen the top of everest....from 6000ft"Shedhand

Shedhand, at 6000ft you would have bumped into Kosciouszko!:rolleyes: :p ;)

Cheers,G'day Silky. read the post again mate! The top of Everest. I was in BA Jumbo at 35000 feet. 35K jumbo cruising altitude less Height of Everest 29K+ feet = I was about 6K above the top. :) And it was all red from a glorious thin air sunrise. Brilliant. Pity I was close to death at the time. :(
Cheers

[silkwood]

read the post again mate! Shedhand

I did, give it a go yourself!;)

Then expand upon the "almost dead" story?!

Cheers

[silkwood]

Sorry, I see how you meant it! :o

Now how about that story!

[Shedhand]

Sorry, I see how you meant it! :o

Now how about that story!OK. Sad but true. My one and only overseas trip. Went to Toronto for an International Mining Expo (during the worlds first SARS outbreak and deaths). Met some great people among whom were some Chinese geologists (PRC). One of them was crook and coughing a lot. I shook hands with him. Big mistake. Left there and went to London for a few days for a look around. Left London for Hong Kong (by this time 10 days had elapsed since my contact with the Chinese geologist. About 2 hrs or so out of London, somewhere over Vilnius I was suddenly struck down. Hallucinations, violent headache, sweating, shakes....well you can imagine. Only had aspirin on board, no doctor. I'm in big trouble. Flight stewards worked in shifts getting plenty of water into me. Still hours to Hong Kong. Landed in Hong Kong in a seriously bad way. Told to smile a lot and use a luggage trolley to stay upright otherwise I would be refused entry and sent back to London.
Get to my hotel and collapse. Australian Consulate called. They arrrange transport to the hospital (which demands my credit card for a HK$10,000 deposit - I don't hand it over.). Remember, by this time SARS is rampant in Hong Kong. I got run through every test known to man and martians and informed I have a streptococcal infection in my brain which started in my throat. Ever had an MRI when you've had a triple grade migraine??? :eek: :( I thought I was gonna die for sure. Government made arrangements for wife to fly over etc etc.
Anyway,after a lot of speciallist treatment I managed to live to tell the tale. The first day back on my feet i staggered out of my room (probably more to do with the lack of meat in my diet - it was the Adventist Private hospital - than the illness) I discovered to my total horror that the rooms either side of mine had big red signs on them saying Isolation - SARS Suspected - No entry.
Qantas bought me home (a 10 day trip ended up being 27 days) in a wheelchair. I went back to work after 4 days rest and recuperation but relapsed and had a total of 68 days sick leave because of it all. Not fun I can tell you. Cost of trip A$23,000 + cost of treatment HK$58,000. Luckily my employer had Insurance to cover the medical costs.
A happy ending for me at least.