Removing a glass balustrade - temporarily

[Arron]

Hi. We had a glass balustrade fitted to the upper deck of our incomplete house. Now we need to remove it temporarily to get the deck waterproofed.

Looking at it, it looks like a simple job of loosening the screws on the spigots at the base, sliding the glass pieces over until sufficient access is available to get an Allen key (or maybe Phillips driver, I can’t tell) into the head of the fixing which holds the handrail to the vertical surface, lifting the handrail off, and then lifting the glasses out.

Is it that simple, or is there some trick to it - something I need to know but don’t.

If necessary, I could call the company that installed it to do the job, but would rather not for cost reasons.

Photos are attached but it’s almost impossible to get a clear view of the handrail-to-vertical surface joint.

Anyone done this ?

Cheers
Arron

483406483407

[rwbuild]

I respectfully suggest you pay the company to R & R for 2 reasons. If there is a breakage, it won't cost you and if there is a future failure/issue arising, you are covered but do it yourself and there could be a costly repercussion.
It is a safety barrier and legally has to be installed by an appropriately qualified and licensed installer.

[Wrongwayfirst]

:2tsup: What RW says, you sound like you are on the right path but why void any future warranty to save a few bucks. Have you had a quote?

[Arron]

Ok.
I hadn’t thought of it that way, but it is indeed a safety issue.
I’ll give them a ring tomorrow.

Cheers
Arron

[ian]

where I'm curious is ...

why were the glass balustrades installed before the deck was waterproofed? I would have thought that normal was to install the balustrades after the deck was waterproofed and tiled.

[Arron]

Safety. I didn’t want to fall off.

Being a fairly challenging custom build there is a lot of other work required between completion of structure and waterproofing.

Perhaps we could have put up some temporary wooden balustrade but I don’t think I’d have ever trusted it and there could be legal issues which don’t exist with a proper balustrade by qualified people.

[ian]

doesn't this answer you original question about how to remove the glass panels?
legal issues which don’t exist with a proper balustrade by qualified people.

[Arron]

doesn't this answer you original question about how to remove the glass panels?

Not really. There is often a world of difference between removing and reinstalling a complying item and designing, building and installing something in the first place.

Nonetheless, I’m not a risk taker so I will get it reinstalled by the original installers.

[Arron]

So the installers returned today to remove the balustrade. It turns out that the top rail is not screw-fixed at the end, but simply floats on a fitting that looks like a screw. The top rail is in fact held on to the top of each glass panel with silicon - lots of it, and it took a great deal of levering and brute force to break the silicon bond, and unfortunately the longest rail was bent in the process.

Why exactly it was fixed in such a permanent manner when it was obvious to all that it would need to be removed for waterproofing and tiling is something only the builder or balustrade installer could say. I thought it was a temporary fix or at least removable so never questioned it. Note to self - ask more questions and never be hesitant to ‘interfere’.

Cheers
Arron

[ian]

So the installers returned today to remove the balustrade. It turns out that the top rail is not screw-fixed at the end, but simply floats on a fitting that looks like a screw. The top rail is in fact held on to the top of each glass panel with silicon - lots of it, and it took a great deal of levering and brute force to break the silicon bond, and unfortunately the longest rail was bent in the process.

Why exactly it was fixed in such a permanent manner when it was obvious to all that it would need to be removed for waterproofing and tiling is something only the builder or balustrade installer could say. I thought it was a temporary fix or at least removable so never questioned it. Note to self - ask more questions and never be hesitant to ‘interfere’.Arron
as the "owner builder" I thought you were the responsible entity -- i.e. the builder. All the trades report to you and, consequently, the quality of their work is ultimately your responsibility.

As to why the balustrade was fixed in a permanent manner -- I'm pretty sure that the balustrade installers are not permitted to fix it any other way. OH&S and all that. A "temporary install" is just that temporary, the balustrade wouldn't be permanently attached so could easily become detached.

BTW, I believe you were relying on the properly installed balustrade to prevent you falling off the elevated deck. However, the balustrade is no longer there, so the the water proofers and tilers can no longer rely on the safety system you had installed to prevent them falling off. You are likely to be held negligent should your replacement safety system not restrain them should they fall.

[rwbuild]

If the installers didn't do it to ASA standards the first time and it went pear shaped, they would have been sued for everything.
Now that its removed you have 2 options:
An erected scaffold with fall protection or:
Who ever is working on the deck must have an approved safety harness with fall limiting restraint anchored somewhere to the building. Also, it is YOUR responsibility to check the use by date on the tags or labels of the harness and restraints. There are a lot of trades out there who don't observe this. It doesn't matter how good a condition its in, if its out of date, there ain't no insurance cover and your liable.

[Arron]

Arron
as the "owner builder" I thought you were the responsible entity -- i.e. the builder. All the trades report to you and, consequently, the quality of their work is ultimately your responsibility.

As to why the balustrade was fixed in a permanent manner -- I'm pretty sure that the balustrade installers are not permitted to fix it any other way. OH&S and all that. A "temporary install" is just that temporary, the balustrade wouldn't be permanently attached so could easily become detached.

BTW, I believe you were relying on the properly installed balustrade to prevent you falling off the elevated deck. However, the balustrade is no longer there, so the the water proofers and tilers can no longer rely on the safety system you had installed to prevent them falling off. You are likely to be held negligent should your replacement safety system not restrain them should they fall.

I am the owner builder as far as the CC is concerned, but I contracted a licensed builder to build as far as lockup. The provision and installation of the balustrade was part of his scope. Waterproofing and tiling typically follow after lockup, so they are not part of his scope.

———————

Edit - there was more to this post but I deleted it after noticing that RWBuild answered my question. Now I need to convince the WP people to wear a safety harness - wish me luck.

[Arron]

If the installers didn't do it to ASA standards the first time and it went pear shaped, they would have been sued for everything.
Now that its removed you have 2 options:
An erected scaffold with fall protection or:
Who ever is working on the deck must have an approved safety harness with fall limiting restraint anchored somewhere to the building. Also, it is YOUR responsibility to check the use by date on the tags or labels of the harness and restraints. There are a lot of trades out there who don't observe this. It doesn't matter how good a condition its in, if its out of date, there ain't no insurance cover and your liable.


Ok, obviously the safety harness is the easier solution to comply with. Question - do you find most building trades are compliant with wearing a harness, or do they mostly try to ignore this reg?

I did expect to purchase a harness as I’m not confident with heights so want one for myself when working up there.

Cheers, and thanks for the guidance.
Arron

[rwbuild]

Most will try to ignore it if its a fairly standard height 1st floor level but the regulations state anything over 1.8m above ground, all or any safety procedures, etc must be complied with.
If your trades don't want to do it, tell them you will get someone who will.
Regardless of the fact that your contracted a licensed builder to do a certain scope of works, you are the one that they will go for.
This is a fairly likely check list that they will ask for:
Site induction and signed by all inducted.
Risk assessment analysis and instruction/methodology for mitigating any risk.
Site attendance records by all who work on site noting time arrival and departure.
Accident/incident report records.
MSD data sheets.

Your licensed builder should also have their own set of records/documentation as well.

[ian]

Ok, obviously the safety harness is the easier solution to comply with. Question - do you find most building trades are compliant with wearing a harness, or do they mostly try to ignore this reg?
the water proofers and tilers will need a tie-off point for their safety harnesses -- possibly many more than one tie-off point.

I believe as the OB you are responsible for supplying the tie-off point(s) and providing the appropriate certification that the tie-off point(s) meet the engineering requirements.

[Arron]

Ok, so I went out and bought two ‘roofers kits’ (safety harnesses with travelling rope solution). Not cheap but amazingly high quality - I think.

I also had two anchor points set in.

So far I haven’t had any success getting trades to wear them. The manager of the xxxxxxxxxxx company guaranteed me they would wear them, but when I got to the site they had already departed and the backpacks were still where I left them, unopened. I wasn’t expecting that.

However I do make the fellow i employ periodically wear one as needed - and it is a great comfort to me to know that if a slip occurs it will be little more then a scare.

Tomorrow I’ll be wearing one while working on the balcony ceiling. Again, a great comfort.

Cheers
Arron

[riverbuilder]

“If you don’t want to wear it, and correctly, pack your stuff and remove yourself from site” is my standard answer to any PPE issues. I usually follow this with an email or message to my point of contact to their company, to make sure I am covered if anything blows up. For direct employees it’s simple, you either wear it or get in the boat and I’ll run you back to your car, easy. Although here, generally, if you have a fall off something high, without protection, you won’t need an ambulance, because you wouldn’t survive before it gets to you anyway most guys understand that.

[clear out]

When you are working and wearing the harness do you have a plan?
I ask this as a mate told me the story of how he used a harness when using a chainsaw to trim a tree at a cottage up the blue mountains.
He was on his own.
He had a mishap and fell off the tree.
So there he was on his own swinging in the breeze.
He tried shouting out for help but the neighbours were out.
I guess his phone fell out of his pocket in the fall.
In the end he had to cut himself free and fall to the ground.
He survived ok but always tells that story when somebody mentions harnesses.
I’ve been using one myself lately to paint the exterior of a new sunroom on the front upstairs of our house.
Got the missus to hover inside in case I do some thing stupid.
She actually holds the paint so I can hang on with the spare hand.
I also wear my Japanese roof boots they give great grip on the terracotta tiles.
H